Ken Rockwell - Genius or Fool? - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/06/2008 09:54:18 AM · #276

[REDACTED]

I actually like Ken and his site, but I also like to think that I'm sensible enough to make my own call.

I have to buy a "real" lens for some work I'll be doing, something along the lines of a 70/80-200 F/2.8.

The write-ups and opinions Ken is offering show an incredible amount of homework, and though he's very subjective in his opinionms, I feel I'm getting a truly accurate view of the pros and cons of about a half dozen different options.

If anyone has a better suggestion, or even another suggestion where I could find this input, PLEASE let me know on or off list.

I really liked his report on the D700, too.

I'm a Nikon user, and love him or hate him, *YOU'D* be the fool if you didn't at least check out what he has to say if you're looking at options on Nikon equipment.

Regardless of his subjectivity, the man DOES spend time and money on Nikon equipment and he freely shares his views and findings.

If you're looking for points of view, there's no downside.

Message edited by L2 - Removed quote of hidden post..

togtog

Nikon D300

09/06/2008 10:45:23 AM · #277

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I have to buy a "real" lens for some work I'll be doing, something along the lines of a 70/80-200 F/2.8.

The write-ups and opinions Ken is offering show an incredible amount of homework, and though he's very subjective in his opinions, I feel I'm getting a truly accurate view of the pros and cons of about a half dozen different options.

If anyone has a better suggestion, or even another suggestion where I could find this input, PLEASE let me know on or off list.

As I've said before my only real gripe with the man is putting his disclaimer in the About link at the bottom of his pages. I've asked three professional web designers and they agree with me it is bad practice.

Anyway, I cannot offer another resource for general Nikon reviews however I do have a good link for Nikon lens reviews, this guy seems to also do his home work but does not pick favorites, just gives the bare facts and a score of each lens. Here is a link to the page with links to the 70 and 80-200mm lenses...

//www.naturfotograf.com/lens_zoom_00.html Right side...
Direct links...
AFS-Nikkor 70-200 mm f/2.8 G ED-IF VR
AFS-Nikkor 80-200 mm f/2.8 D ED-IF

Hope this helps!

09/06/2008 10:57:37 AM · #278

Originally posted by togtog:

I actually kinda like this lens.....and the way he talks about it relative to the lenses that cost twice as much. I hate it, but I *AM* on a budget.

//www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/80200.htm

mpeters

Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF for Sigma

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/06/2008 11:18:10 AM · #279

Groundhog Day! perfect.

I spent about an hour on Kens site yesterday after posting in this thread. After reading some of his comments on his site, I thinnk he would be amused at the postings here(DPC's and the first timers). He has a pretty good sense of humor. His 7 levels of photography were funny-particularly Level 1- The Measureabator. No offense intended.

lordarutha

Sigma SD14

09/06/2008 11:22:04 AM · #280

Thanks dwterry.

If some elements are free I will certainly have a go.

For those of you who have not used the sigma cameras they are pretty sharp with impressive rendering of detail. They do suffer with noise at higher iso levels and are pretty bad in the dark, but that said I absolutely love them.

They don't have the long list of gear like Nikon/Canon which can be quite frustrating but the image quality more than compensates.

Once I have figured out how to move around this site I will submit some pics in the free challenges and you can tell me what you think.

Thanks for being understandig and sorry for getting a bit narky in the begining.

09/06/2008 11:36:01 AM · #281

Originally posted by lordarutha:

Thanks for being understandig and sorry for getting a bit narky in the begining.

Not that you were provoked or anything......8>)

Welcome!

mpeters

Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX Aspherical DG DF for Sigma

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/06/2008 12:11:42 PM · #282

HOpe you stick around and participate! Have fun!

lordarutha

Sigma SD14

09/06/2008 01:01:23 PM · #283

I will be having a go. Not up to the standard of some of you guys but I am sure I can get some hints from Kens site. lol.

pentaxguy48

09/28/2008 12:51:08 PM · #284

Yes I just signed up to post on this thread. Is that a crime in itself? Probably, so feel free to ban me, shoot me or whatever.

To answer the question, genius or fool? In my opinion and I don't claim to be right or have the truth on anything in life. Everything I believe or have an opinion is based on my subjective experience of my life so don't take me seriously.

OK Ken Rockwell.
1. He is an excellent Internet Marketer - I assume that he created the website because a) he enjoys it and b) it's a great way to make residual income off Google ad words and affiliate links. I have no idea what his revenue is related to the many many hours he must spend writing this stuff so I can't rate his success. His high rating on Google is a success in itself and I guess he does quite well with the ads and affiliate stuff.
2. Does he know what he is talking about - I have read many of his articles and from my own experience it has helped my photography. I like the articles on "it's not about the camera", making great pictures in crappy locations, capturing great color. I don't think there is too much in these articles that would screw up a beginner and I think there is some very good information that is helpful, well based on my experience. Some articles like the Tripod is Dead and the rant against RAW stimulated my thinking. I actually tried shooing JPEG only for a while. I understand the "wisdom" of some of what he is saying but for me, and my experience I shoot RAW. I don't think he is a fool because he prefers JPEG. He's not the only one. Same with the tripod article.
3. Is he opinionated? Yes, but that's his style. I have worked in PR for many years and being controversial is one of the golden rules for getting attention to your story. Yes he takes creative license by saying things like "I don't know any professional photographer's that use tripods. It could be true, though it's unlikely and of course most of us know photogs that use them.
4. Reviews and brands - if you read his most recent stuff he uses Canon products quite a bit. And honestly don't you think some of you are a bit sensitive about your brand. He makes money off his ads and links. I highly doubt it he is on Nikon pay roll.
5. Misleading beginners - most readers are intelligent. They understand the context of his cheap cameras versus expensive DSLR, for example. The point isn't that if you work for National Geographic that you can get published with a Canon Powershot! (actually you could, but not all the time!). Also don't you think that someone is going to by a Nikon D300 will read reviews on more than one site. And honestly does it really matter if a beginner gets a D40 over a Rebel?
6. It's photography not global politics - he's really harmless. He went out and created something, and shared something with the world. By all means disagree with him and you want to feel negativity towards him, that's your choice. My experience is that negativity is a waste of one's energy and life force.

My disclaimer - I have been doing DSLR for about 18 months, I may not know what I am talking about it.

togtog

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/28/2008 01:25:59 PM · #285

You shameful person you, guards! guards! Seriously though there is no crime in that per say.

Also I like that you begin with a disclaimer and end with one. This is how it should be done lol, but anyway.

Firstly, welcome to DPC. I hope you decide to stick with us.

1. Agreed, he is a great marketer. It is indeed no easy task to reach the first page of google.

2. I cannot honestly comment on this. He is obviously knowledgeable however to what degree I can not judge.

3. He is indeed opinionated, which is cool. I am too. What still bothers me is that he admits to randomly spicing up his opinions with non-facts for humor or fun, and it isn't always clear where that line is. Again it is his right and I'm cool with that, I just don't have to like what he says. :)

4. This obviously proves he is a fool, only geniuses use Nikon products, only fools use... ahem. It is actually nice to see him looking with a more open eye at the market.

5. *down SC down, I'll be gentle...* There are different ways to mislead beginners and I never meant to suggest beginners were not intelligent. However there is a difference between being intelligent in general and knowledgeable in a specific subject. I keep looking back to when I got my first camera, compared to now. I would say I was intelligent before and still am now. However I was very unknowing about cameras, photographic processes, lighting, isos and noise, different styles of shooting, special effects, etc. and a point and shoot fit me fine, however I learned over time how much it limited my growth. Since switching to DSLR I've been experimenting in ways I never could have before and learning things that would have been impossible to do with my P&S. So those new to photography might be very intelligent however that doesn't mean they have perfect foresight. I think Ken is a little misleading when he compares P&S to SLR by only covering specific ideal and boring scenes. I think he is misleading elsewhere also, his flash review for example. I think a lot of it could be resolved with a better more visible disclaimer, like the one you used here. :)

5.b. Choosing a D40 over a Rebel or vice versa can be important actually. Not as a first camera but in the future. Each brand has pros and cons. Also each has different offerings in lenses and lens tech, which in general are not cross compatible. I didn't think of that when I got my D300, thankfully I am in general happy with Nikon's lens offerings and their current direction.

6. He is the devil! Ok ok, a little unfair, I believe the more popular someone becomes the more dangerous they become and also the more responsibility they must assume, to be good members of the society they are in. Now I'm not saying he is dangerous by any means, but I think he has the potential, and I honestly wish he was more forthcoming with his disclaimers. Otherwise his site is great and he seems like a great fun loving guy who happens to love photography.

There are no qualifications to post here despite some hot heads (me included) in this thread. And you have certainly not offended me and in fact remain welcome here by myself at least. Opinions aren't a bad thing, even when they differ.

Take care and good shooting whatever you decide to do next. :)

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/28/2008 03:53:21 PM · #286

Originally posted by togtog:

I believe the more popular someone becomes the more dangerous they become and also the more responsibility they must assume, to be good members of the society they are in.

Okay.....why?

The society he is in is his.....don't agree or see it his way, click off.

It's his site, he states that his opinions are to be taken as just that, and he openly states that he's full of it in some instances.

How much more responsibility would you have him assume?

Furthermore, you're trying to project YOUR definition onto him........there are others who certainly do not agree.

It is HIS site.......his only responsibility is to his own vision of it.

togtog

Nikon D300

09/28/2008 05:02:09 PM · #287

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by togtog:
I believe the more popular someone becomes the more dangerous they become and also the more responsibility they must assume, to be good members of the society they are in.

Okay.....why?

The society he is in is his.....don't agree or see it his way, click off.

It's his site, he states that his opinions are to be taken as just that, and he openly states that he's full of it in some instances.

How much more responsibility would you have him assume?

Furthermore, you're trying to project YOUR definition onto him........there are others who certainly do not agree.

It is HIS site.......his only responsibility is to his own vision of it.

I have started a new thread based on my answer and this argument, please have a visit NikonJeb.

Responsibility of website owners

pentaxguy48

09/30/2008 11:01:06 AM · #288

Togtog,

Thanks for your intelligent post. I am actually shooting, I am taking the Understanding Exposure course online with Bryan Peterson - the course is anti-rockwell in many senses, we are shooting manual, using our tripods and making exposures above F16 (Ken is big on refraction, Bryan Peterson doesn't give a hoot about it).

Your post did make me think that Rockwell could be misleading for beginners. I did buy into some of his things but I did read other resources that contradicted him and then made my own decisions. I guess if all you read is Rockwell then it could be a problem, it's like getting all your political news from Rush Limbaugh.

And in fact, your post made me think a little more about Ken Rockwell, he is a bit like talk radio, opinionated, states opinion as facts, and you feel like you are being shouted at!

Now if Ken were Governor of Alaska and running for VP of USA, I might agree that he would dangerous :-)

Anyway, I hope to join your challenge at some point, busy with the course right now though.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/30/2008 11:14:13 AM · #289

pentaxguy has been one of the more eloquent flies attracted to this thread. Let's keep him. :)

t1b

10/03/2008 06:19:17 PM · #290

I am new to dpchallenge and I was snooping around when I found this thread -- Two years and 360 posts on the genius, or lack thereof, of Ken Rockwell. I had just visited his site earliear today and I am sure you will all be glad to know that he is finally at peace. After 25 years of agonizing over his decision, he came to the realization that he made the right choice to go Nikon instead of Canon. When you read his articles you will get a sense that it is important to him to be "right." Keep that in mind and you can extract information that is actually useful from his articles.

Genius --> insecurity?

mpeters

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/03/2008 06:21:23 PM · #291

Welcome t1b. We have a good time with this thread, sometimes at the expense of new posters. ;) Hang around.

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

10/14/2008 12:34:22 AM · #292

It's been a whole 10 days without a Ken Rockwell update. So I'm adding my own update (stolen from another website):

* Ken Rockwell is the Chuck Norris of photography

* Ken Rockwell's camera has similar settings to ours, except his are: P[erfect] Av[Awesome Priority Tv[Totally Awesome Priority] M[ajestic]

* Ken Rockwell doesn't color correct. He adjusts your world to match his.

* Sure, Ken Rockwell deletes a bad photo or two. Other people call these Pulitzers.

* Ken Rockwell doesn't adjust his DOF, he changes space-time.

* Circle of confusion? You might be confused. Ken Rockwell never is.

* Ken Rockwell doesn't wait for the light when he shoots a landscape - the light waits for him.

* Ken Rockwell never flips his camera in portrait position, he flips the earth

* Ken Rockwell ordered an L-lens from Nikon, and got one.

* Ken Rockwell is the only person to have photographed Jesus; unfortunately he ran out of film and had to use a piece of cloth instead.

* When Ken Rockwell brackets a shot, the three versions of the photo win first place in three different categories

* Before Nikon or Canon releases a camera they go to Ken and they ask him to test them, the best cameras get a Nikon sticker and the less good get a Canon sticker

* Once Ken tested a camera, he said I cant even put Canon on this one,thats how Pentax was born

* Rockwellian policy isn't doublethink - Ken doesn't even need to think once

* Ken Rockwell doesn't use flash ever since the Nagasaki incident.

* Only Ken Rockwell can take pictures of Ken Rockwell; everyone else would just get their film overexposed by the light of his genius

* Ken Rockwell wanted something to distract the lesser photographers, and lo, there were ducks.

* Ken Rockwell is the only one who can take self-portraits of you

* Ken Rockwell's nudes were fully clothed at the time of exposure

* Ken Rockwell once designed a zoom lens. You know it as the Hubble Space Telescope.

* When Ken unpacks his CF card, it already has masterpieces on it.

* Rockwell portraits are so lifelike, they have to pay taxes

* On Ken Rockwell's desktop, the Trash Icon is really a link to National Geographic Magazine

* Ken Rockwell spells point-and-shoot "h-a-s-s-e-l-b-l-a-d"

* When Ken Rockwell went digital, National Geographic nearly went out of business because he was no longer physically discarding photos

* For every 10 shots that Ken Rockwell takes, 11 are keepers.

* Ken Rockwell's digital files consist of 0's, 1's AND 2's.

* Ken Rockwell never focus, everything moves into his DoF

* Ken Rockwell's shots are so perfect, Adobe redesigned photoshop for him: all it consists of is a close button.

* The term tripod was coined after his silhouette

* Ken Rockwell never produces awful work, only work too advanced for the viewer

* A certain braind of hig-end cameras was named after people noticed the quality was a lot "like a" rockwell

* Ken Rockwell isn't the Chuck Norris of photography; Chuck Norris is the Ken Rockwell of martial arts.

* Ken Rockwell never starts, he continues

StOlafPhotographer

Nikon D200

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

10/14/2008 12:39:07 AM · #293

Originally posted by dwterry:

* The term tripod was coined after his silhouette

epic, pure win. I got a kick out of this one haha!

Evan

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/14/2008 12:46:19 AM · #294

Originally posted by dwterry:

It's been a whole 10 days without a Ken Rockwell update. So I'm adding my own update (stolen from another website):

You are a small-minded, pedantic, little man.

I almost hurt myself laughing.

I liked this one best: *Ken Rockwell is the Chuck Norris of photography

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

10/14/2008 02:14:41 AM · #295

New TShirts Available!

figaro

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

10/14/2008 02:18:17 AM · #296

Originally posted by dwterry:

It's been a whole 10 days without a Ken Rockwell update. So I'm adding my own update (stolen from another website):
* Ken Rockwell wanted something to distract the lesser photographers, and lo, there were ducks.

Amazing post. That one's probably my favourite!

FireBird

10/14/2008 08:30:31 AM · #297

Who is the Rockwell guy?
I've never heard of him.

sjd996

11/09/2008 05:44:45 PM · #298

FYI, Ken doesn't do to well in this "rate the reviewers" survey:

//www.dentonimages.com/reviewers.php