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03/28/2008 08:38:50 AM · #1 |
How do you rate photos that seem to have nothing to do with the challenge?
Hypothetical photo from the Intimacy Challenge of a Bowling Ball, perfectly composed and lit, titled "My Passion". How do you vote?
a) It is a great photo, who cares about the challenge topic: 10
b) Subtract 2-3 points for being off-topic: 7
c) I don't know: 5
d) It's kind of a stretch, but I like the photo: 3
e) Does not meet challenge: 1
Bob
PS: I suppose this is also possible f) Looks intimate to me, what are you talking about! |
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03/28/2008 08:43:30 AM · #2 |
LOL, this is funny because you DNMC'd my Pattern entry. :-D
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03/28/2008 08:51:27 AM · #3 |
Bob,
Welcome to DPC! There are many, many threads on this topic, so you might want to look through the forums.
Cheers,
- Larry in NYC |
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03/28/2008 08:57:18 AM · #4 |
B
This is what I normally do with shoehorns (Except for my own, which are underrated and should all be ribbon winners)I don't want to ding it too bad for the possibility that I may just not appreciate the connection with the theme, but what is the point of themed challenges if you can get the same score for entering anything? If everyone treats it the same way, then the group as a whole will have spoken clearly. A comment is also in order to point out the reason for the low votes.
Now that I know you have a bowling ball fetish, I'll never be able to go bowling again.
Message edited by author 2008-03-28 08:59:16. |
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03/28/2008 09:06:18 AM · #5 |
I think it depends on just how shoe-horned it is. The example of a bowling ball entitled "My passion" would probably earn a 1 from me because I can think of no connection between bowling and intimacy. "Passion" is not the same as "intimacy." While two people may engage in lovemaking (an intimate act to be sure) that may be described as "passion," "passion" used in the sense of an activity one loves to engage in has no relation to intimacy at all. So I think it sounds like it will have earned a 1 and a nice comment on what a good picture it is even if it doesn't meet the challenge. If it can be said to meet the challenge in some way, though, even if shoe-horned, then I'd have to be more careful with the vote. That's the theory anyway. What I actually do in practice may vary.
Message edited by author 2008-03-28 09:07:09. |
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03/28/2008 09:06:53 AM · #6 |
Voting Guidelines
You should:
"keep an open mind to other interpretations of the challenge topic."
"consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly."
Some recent threads, out of dozens...
Thread - How to Vote
Thread - How do you vote?
Thread - DNMC
Thread - Meeting the Challenge
Thread - Relating to challenge topics
Forum Rules #3:
Search existing threads for a topic before starting a new one. Since threads are indexed for search every few hours, you should both search (using the search box at the bottom of the front page) AND check recent threads (by checking the front page, or better, clicking "Community" on the menu bar) before creating a new thread. In the interest of keeping the forums orderly, the Site Council will lock any duplicate threads, and include a link to the existing thread on the topic.
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03/28/2008 09:22:26 AM · #7 |
personally I don't think anyone should get voted down for shoehorning something in .... even if it only meets the challenge by a stretch, it still meets the challenge.
If it really is way off then I take maybe a couple off the score. A 1 and 2 vote should be very very rare IMHO as should 9's and 10's
Keeping open minded is the phrase that should be used always though |
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03/28/2008 09:30:36 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by bobonacus:
personally I don't think anyone should get voted down for shoehorning something in .... even if it only meets the challenge by a stretch, it still meets the challenge.
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I am fairly liberal when it comes to challenge interpretations. I am also aware that I might be missing an interpretation: when I think a pic is DNMC does not mean it is DNMC. But when a pic fails to convey a message (e.g. how it relates to the theme), I vote it down (1 or 2 points) and leave a comment. When in doubt, I will not vote on the pic and leave a comment. Extremely creative shoehorns may even be voted up. ;)
Whatever you do, leave a comment, so that the photographer knows the pictures was not clear enough in relating to the challenge-theme.
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03/28/2008 09:54:22 AM · #9 |
As far as bowling balls and intimacy, and whether it's a "stretch" or not, bear in mind that when one plays with a bowling ball one inserts 3 fingers into it... In that sense it may well be the most intimate of all the balls we use in sports, so... I mean, you insert your fingers, you wiggle them around until they feel well-seated, you lift the ball to your chest, you rub it a little bit (maybe "caress" isn't too strong a word), then swing it through a widening, accelerating arc and release it to go hurtling towards a climactic event at the head of the lane...
What am I saying? That if I look hard enough I can find a connection between most images entered in challenges and the topic of that challenge. I sort of think that's my job... So how am I gonna judge this bowling ball in the intimacy challenge? Not by rejecting the concept out of hand, no... But if the shot is a straight-on "portrait" of the ball, that won't go very far with me, just as you wouldn't get very far with a portrait of your girlfriend (in my eyes, at least) if the portrait didn't communicate "intimacy" in some fairly attention-attracting way.
So it should be with the bowling ball; if you can somehow deliver to me an image that captures the gestalt of what I have described above, that's an EXCELLENT, out-of-the-box take on the topic and it's gonna get a high score from me. But just a shot of a bowling ball? Uh-uh... I'm willing to concede to you, the hypothetical maker of this image, that the bowling ball can be an intimate partner, but you still have to communicate that intimacy to me to get a good score...
R. |
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03/28/2008 09:55:05 AM · #10 |
When I see a photo that I feel does not meet the challenge, I skip it altogether.
To me it feels wrong to give a good or decent photo a bad score because it didn't meet the challenge. However, it is a challenge with a topic, so if the photo does not fit that topic at all, then I'd rather just not vote on it.
I also take into account that I just might be so dense that I'm not getting what the photographer was trying to convey. In that case, I would also rather not vote at all than give a low score because of my inability to see the topic in the photo.
I may leave a comment eluding to the fact that I have not voted and why. |
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03/28/2008 09:57:09 AM · #11 |
I tend to take a bit of a harder view. Photography is about communication. If the challenge is Intamacy the your photo should speak that to me in some way. If I look at your photo of a bowling ball, and see that it's perfectly exposed, tack sharp (because we can't get over that at DPC), and otherwise well done, but says nothing of intamacy to me I'm going to mark that down. If it looks to me that your bolwing ball was a last minute entry just to get something in and the title is the only link to the challenge, I may score it even lower
The thing with photography is that is is so subjective (as with any art), and as I score a photo I can't just look a the technical side and say "well this was a good photo so here's your 6, even though it did speak the theme to me". YES I may be wrong! I may misinterpret what you were trying to do with your bowling ball and you may get mift at me and whatever comment I leave (and I do try to comment thoughtfully on ever photo I score)but that's the risk you take when you make a peice of art and that's the chance I take when I score it.
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03/28/2008 10:01:15 AM · #12 |
It's interesting to me that no one ever wants to "be the bad guy" by voting an image down. We get one vote - so 1/200th of a person's score depends on me. If I can't figure how it relates to the challenge ... I indicate that with my vote - often times a 1. If no one else agrees, my vote won't matter much as the the other 199 will pull it back up. If everyone else agrees, then collectively we've just helped the submitter by telling them what not to submit in the future.
Don't be afraid of the low end of the scale ... it's there for a reason. |
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03/28/2008 10:25:12 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by hopper:
It's interesting to me that no one ever wants to "be the bad guy" ... |
I'll be the bad guy!
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Photography is about communication. |
You're right but a lot of people here seem to think that that communication must hit within 5 seconds. Communication is a two way street and some people think it's a one way affair. Not good. Not cool.
Bear-"What am I saying? That if I look hard enough I can find a connection between most images entered in challenges and the topic of that challenge. I sort of think that's my job.. "
That's a really smart way to approach things unfortunately some don't understand that or they simply don't have the proper time to give an image. Usually why the Top 10 are easy to read, high impact shots. There's not a lot of time for depth.
BTW...when are we all going Bowling?
Message edited by author 2008-03-28 10:26:47. |
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03/28/2008 10:38:53 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by hopper:
It's interesting to me that no one ever wants to "be the bad guy" ... |
I'll be the bad guy!
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Photography is about communication. |
You're right but a lot of people here seem to think that that communication must hit within 5 seconds. Communication is a two way street and some people think it's a one way affair. Not good. Not cool.
Bear-"What am I saying? That if I look hard enough I can find a connection between most images entered in challenges and the topic of that challenge. I sort of think that's my job.. "
That's a really smart way to approach things unfortunately some don't understand that or they simply don't have the proper time to give an image. Usually why the Top 10 are easy to read, high impact shots. There's not a lot of time for depth.
BTW...when are we all going Bowling? |
I don't dissagree that there are many that just blast through a challenge and don't really 'see' the photos they just look at them, score them, and move on, but I think there are many (myselve included) that try to take time with each photo... but the bottom line is, if I do'nt get your connection to the challenge or what you're trying to communicate through your photo, I'm not going to score it the 7 or whatever I might have given it just for the sake of sparing feelings over your art...
That said, there is lots of art out there that I just don't get. Maaybe becaue I'm too dumb to get it or whatever, but if I don't get it for wahtever reason it's not likely to be my favorite art... same goes for photography.
on another note I get plenty of ones on entries and I am thankful for each one wheather I agree or not, because it say's that to that person I did not achieve the goal I was after... such is life in the art world... some will like and some will hate... DPC is no different and that's a good thing |
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03/28/2008 10:39:40 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Photography is about communication. |
You're right but a lot of people here seem to think that that communication must hit within 5 seconds. Communication is a two way street and some people think it's a one way affair. Not good. Not cool. |
well said. It's about communication, not proclamation. The viewer shouldn't have to be a passive participant. |
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03/28/2008 10:42:37 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Photography is about communication. |
You're right but a lot of people here seem to think that that communication must hit within 5 seconds. Communication is a two way street and some people think it's a one way affair. Not good. Not cool. |
well said. It's about communication, not proclamation. The viewer shouldn't have to be a passive participant. |
The "viewer" that casts a "1" vote on a DNMC (in their mind) challenge entry is far from being a "passive participant". |
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03/28/2008 10:42:56 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
That said, there is lots of art out there that I just don't get. Maaybe becaue I'm too dumb to get it or whatever, but if I don't get it for wahtever reason it's not likely to be my favorite art... same goes for photography. |
There's a lot of art I don't get too. There's quite a lot less art that I don't get now after try to spend the time to understand it. Some of it has become my favourite art, though at first all I thought was 'huh?'
The more satisfying stuff, to me, usually takes time. It has depth, substance, content, beyond the superficial 'oh, pretty' or 'wow' reaction. Something to say, something to think about, something to feel, other than 'shiny' or 'bright'. Maybe it requires guidance or education about the subject to really appreciate what's going on.
Good literature is like that too - it takes time to understand and appreciate. Effort, usually well spent. |
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03/28/2008 10:43:37 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Gordon:
well said. It's about communication, not proclamation. The viewer shouldn't have to be a passive participant. |
The "viewer" that casts a "1" vote on a DNMC (in their mind) challenge entry is far from being a "passive participant". |
Yup, its about the same as sticking two fingers in your ears. A valid response.
Message edited by author 2008-03-28 10:43:50. |
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03/28/2008 10:44:50 AM · #19 |
| If a picture doesn't meet the challenge I give it a one. To do otherwise would be unfair to the other photographers who have met the challenge. Ignoring the challenge subject simply turns it into a Free Study. |
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03/28/2008 10:50:20 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Eyesup:
That said, there is lots of art out there that I just don't get. Maaybe becaue I'm too dumb to get it or whatever, but if I don't get it for wahtever reason it's not likely to be my favorite art... same goes for photography. |
There's a lot of art I don't get too. There's quite a lot less art that I don't get now after try to spend the time to understand it. Some of it has become my favourite art, though at first all I thought was 'huh?'
The more satisfying stuff, to me, usually takes time. It has depth, substance, content, beyond the superficial 'oh, pretty' or 'wow' reaction. Something to say, something to think about, something to feel, other than 'shiny' or 'bright'. Maybe it requires guidance or education about the subject to really appreciate what's going on.
Good literature is like that too - it takes time to understand and appreciate. Effort, usually well spent. |
the problem is there's only a week for voting... you're right... I may 'get' a photo later on, but in the same breath as a photographer entering a challenge the we all 'know' the majority of people are flying through the voting, how do we shoot... If you go for the art that may take a bit to 'get' you run the risk of a low score because people havn't taken the time... again this is the risk we all take entering photo's in a challenge |
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03/28/2008 10:54:14 AM · #21 |
The beauty and curse of this site is that voters can vote any way they wish (within reason). It's perfectly acceptable to enjoy and rate high the shallow, pop-art stuff that the deep thinkers seem to despise.
not pointed at anyone ... just showing that the majority is always right ... however i'd love to discuss HOW to change popular opinion ... would love to see some different styles on the front page
Originally posted by Gordon:
There's a lot of art I don't get too. There's quite a lot less art that I don't get now after try to spend the time to understand it. Some of it has become my favourite art, though at first all I thought was 'huh?'
The more satisfying stuff, to me, usually takes time. It has depth, substance, content, beyond the superficial 'oh, pretty' or 'wow' reaction. Something to say, something to think about, something to feel, other than 'shiny' or 'bright'. Maybe it requires guidance or education about the subject to really appreciate what's going on.
Good literature is like that too - it takes time to understand and appreciate. Effort, usually well spent. |
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03/28/2008 11:06:15 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by hopper:
The beauty and curse of this site is that voters can vote any way they wish (within reason). It's perfectly acceptable to enjoy and rate high the shallow, pop-art stuff that the deep thinkers seem to despise.
not pointed at anyone ... just showing that the majority is always right ... however i'd love to discuss HOW to change popular opinion ... would love to see some different styles on the front page |
and my favourite piece of art, ever ?
This
Seriously. Has had the single biggest change on me out of any art I've ever seen. I keep coming back to it. So stick that in your shallow pop-art pipe and smoke it :)
Message edited by author 2008-03-28 11:07:17. |
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03/28/2008 11:13:51 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
and my favourite piece of art, ever ?
This
Seriously. Has had the single biggest change on me out of any art I've ever seen. I keep coming back to it. So stick that in your shallow pop-art pipe and smoke it :) |
I'll agree with you there. Ruscha's "text paintings", and especially this "OOF" one, had a great effect on me, on how I perceived art. He taught as a guest lecturer at my school in the late 60's, The New York Studio School, and I thought he was really interesting.
R. |
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03/28/2008 11:16:01 AM · #24 |
| What I try to do (I dont always have time for this) is i go through all the entries and do a first vote. Later I will go back and check my votes, add comments (short comments) and adjust accordingly. If I can I will go back a 3rd time, expand my comments (specially on my low votes). If its a picture that IMO DNMC, but the picture has very good quality, I wont give it a 1, but I wont give it a high score either. Same thing with the ones that meet the challenge, but are not technically good. |
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03/28/2008 11:19:22 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Gordon:
and my favourite piece of art, ever ?
This
Seriously. Has had the single biggest change on me out of any art I've ever seen. I keep coming back to it. So stick that in your shallow pop-art pipe and smoke it :) |
I'll agree with you there. Ruscha's "text paintings", and especially this "OOF" one, had a great effect on me, on how I perceived art. He taught as a guest lecturer at my school in the late 60's, The New York Studio School, and I thought he was really interesting.
R. |
Taught me a lot about colour theory and how to use and abuse colour relationships, for a start.
Not quite so popular:
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