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Showing posts 26 - 48 of 48, (reverse)
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 03/26/2008 12:20:18 PM · #26
Voters are funny, they tend to look at the images quickly and in this case I would guess most of the voters giving it a 1 did not look at the image long enough to even notice there was a fence or feeling the fence was not a big enough part of the shot thus getting the DMNC vote. There is also a few voters out there that will give a 1 even when the image clearly meets the challenge but it is not what they personally like.

I liked the shot I entered in fences but knew it was not the oversaturated spot on sharp shot that does well on DPC knowing full well at best it would be about 5.5, not surprisingly it got a 5.4. I was a little surprised however that it got 6 1's even though it clearly met the challenge so there were clearly some voters out there giving 1's on personal likes or dislikes.
 03/26/2008 01:45:58 PM · #27
Originally posted by bobonacus:
people here do seem to give out 1's and 2's like candy at Halloween :(


Not really. The number of 1's was less than 10 percent of all votes. 4's, 5's , and 6's were given out like candy. :)
 03/26/2008 01:52:36 PM · #28
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
so until I gain my 5.75 will shoot candy pics :)


and in doing so will continue to perpetuate the very thing you are railing against. . .:(

"candy pics," as you call them, score well. others see that, and enter "candy pics" and so on and so on.

It is not dpc stifling your creativity. It is you stifling your creativity, in order to score higher. If everyone who complains about "candy pics" would stop submitting them, if they truly feel that they are soul-less and uncreative, then there may be a change. Until then. . . .


Oops, guess I should correct my first comment. Maybe candy was the wrong word to use - dpc friendly would be more correct.

Also, I hope people don't get me wrong here, I'm not knocking what we term dpc friendly images and wish I had the ability to take and edit almost any ribbon shot. One of my goals is to increase my average vote received and to do this I need to follow the guidelines down the middle and not vere off to one side or the other - it doesn't mean sell myself out as I enjoy snapping anything. I'm pretty sure that in the right challenge many of my shots would score higher (as would many other peoples images).

And some meaningless stats...

Have entered 8 challenges in 2008, the first 7 challenges received (in total) 3 1's, 6 2's and 25 3's. Fences got 15 1's, 15 2's and 21 3's - the voter is always right ;)

Now, off to edit a pretty FS shot lol
 03/26/2008 02:45:17 PM · #29
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Oops, guess I should correct my first comment. Maybe candy was the wrong word to use - dpc friendly would be more correct.


I think the right word you are looking for is popular
 03/26/2008 05:20:20 PM · #30
I think the picture was scored just about right. Look at the 10 pictures surrounding it. Is this one significantly better? No. Is it significantly worse? No. Seems just right to me.

Take this one:


The technicals are somewhat superior yet it scored worse. It is every bit as "creative" as the tiger (being entirely title dependent).

Or this one:

This one lacks some creativity, but does much more prominently display a fence (thus earning the moniker "uninspired" or "not creative" or whatever the word for the day is). The technicals are every bit as good. It scored worse.

In every challenge someone is going to finish near the bottom. I'm getting sick of hearing the phrase "eye candy" being thrown about as if to assume every ribbon winning shooter sells his soul and sacrifices creativity in order to score well.

Message edited by author 2008-03-26 17:21:09.
 03/26/2008 05:28:43 PM · #31
Most of us are envious of those that shoot clean, crisp, clearly challenge coordinated shots. Some of us just don't seem to be wired to be able to do that for whatever reason. "Eye candy" means it pleases the viewer. To do well here, you must please the viewer, be able to do it very quickly, and not offend. And of course meet the challenge in spades. That's a lot to take into account. I don't think ribbon winners sell their souls - if that's all it took, there'd be a rush to put up souls on eBay at bargain rates. :-)
 03/26/2008 05:29:48 PM · #32
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think the picture was scored just about right. Look at the 10 pictures surrounding it. Is this one significantly better? No. Is it significantly worse? No. Seems just right to me.

I disagree. The subtle bokeh on the chain link fence on this shot makes it stand out above the others around it, imho. But that's the beauty of the contest, everyone gets one vote, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I don't think this one should have ribboned, but I don't think there is any way this image deserved a 1, much less 17 ones all in a row. I can see someone marking this a 4, maybe even a 3, but a 1 or a 2? C'mon. That, to me, is just indefensible.

Seems to me people are getting a lot more free with their 1s and 2s around here, which can drag a good image down much faster than a 6, 7 or 8 is gonna pull it up.
 03/26/2008 05:36:39 PM · #33
Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
I don't think this one should have ribboned, but I don't think there is any way this image deserved a 1, much less 17 ones all in a row. I can see someone marking this a 4, maybe even a 3, but a 1 or a 2? C'mon. That, to me, is just indefensible.


Did it deserve the 4 votes of eight and 2 votes of nine ? If we are going to quibble about low votes, do we get to quibble about high votes too ? Or is one insulting to the photographer, so not allowed, while the other is just insulting to voters in general ?

It's a picture of a tiger. Ask 100 people off the street to describe that shot and maybe 1 in 10 might mention something about the distorting thing in front of the tiger. A handful of them might well know it was caused by a really out of focus bit of wire fencing.
It is really doubtful that any one of those 100 people would mention that the shot was anything to do with a fence, other than as a minor technical complaint.

Does it meet the challenge - in the least possible way, yes. There is a fence in the image.

Is the image anything to do with the challenge topic ? Probably not.

Message edited by author 2008-03-26 17:45:12.
 03/26/2008 05:43:36 PM · #34
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm getting sick of hearing the phrase "eye candy" being thrown about as if to assume every ribbon winning shooter sells his soul and sacrifices creativity in order to score well.

No, but many of the ribbon winning shots are soulless. :-P The front page this week is one of the frequent exceptions to that though.

I won a ribbon once, many ages ago. In my opinion, my ribbon winner is "eye candy", just a jumble of pretty colours disconnected from anything and completely devoid of meaning for me. I went out and shot 'er with the specific intent of making something visually appealing.

When I contrast that to the kind of photo I like to take most frequently, there's really a world of difference. I don't think my usual stuff is either very popular or very attractive (pretty). Coincidentally, I don't enter a lot of challenges, and I don't have any scores above 7.

There's nothing wrong with "eye candy" or whatever you want to call it, and I'd venture to say that currently, it's the site's raison d'être. That's all well and good. Beautiful pictures with perfect technicals and clever themes are very pleasing to look at, and I enjoy them as much as posthumous-style winners. Whether or not they have any particular meaning, whether they have a soul or not, is for the photographer and the individual viewer to decide.
 03/26/2008 05:47:46 PM · #35
Originally posted by Louis:
There's nothing wrong with "eye candy" or whatever you want to call it, and I'd venture to say that currently, it's the site's raison d'être. That's all well and good. Beautiful pictures with perfect technicals and clever themes are very pleasing to look at, and I enjoy them as much as posthumous-style winners. Whether or not they have any particular meaning, whether they have a soul or not, is for the photographer and the individual viewer to decide.


It's probably the reason that the majority of hobbyist photographers take pictures. They want to make clean, bright, pretty pictures with bright colours or traditional B&W landscapes. Those people are probably the majority of members and voters here too. Nothing wrong with pretty, popular eye candy images. it is why most people have a camera, after all.
 03/26/2008 05:59:35 PM · #36
Originally posted by Gordon:
Did it deserve the 4 votes of eight and 2 votes of nine ? If we are going to quibble about low votes, do we get to quibble about high votes too ?

I don't disagree that you should be able to criticize the underserved highs as well as the lows. But here there seem to me to be a hugely disproportionate number of 1s and 2s in this image: 17 1s and 9 2s, vs. 16 7s, 4 8s, 2 9s and no 10s (and I'm not even counting the 3s here).

I'm not suggesting everything needs to come out to a 5, but I do think there is something out of whack here. I can see 5 or 6 people scoring this very highly, and I could also see 5 or 6 people scoring this on the far low end of the spectrum. It seems to me that people are (for good reason, I might add) a lot more judicious in giving out the 9s and 10s -- and put a lot more thought into those votes -- than they are in handing out 1s and 2s.

Originally posted by Gordon:
Does it meet the challenge - in the least possible way, yes. There is a fence in the image. Is the image anything to do with the challenge topic ? Probably not.

I disagree with this quite a bit, because I think the hint of the fence makes a statement about fences in general, how we use them, where we put them, and why. At the risk of overstating my opinion just to make a point, this is an image that can make you think, much more than just a "pretty picture" of a fence.

But, as I said earlier, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
 03/26/2008 06:16:13 PM · #37
Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
I disagree with this quite a bit, because I think the hint of the fence makes a statement about fences in general, how we use them, where we put them, and why. At the risk of overstating my opinion just to make a point, this is an image that can make you think, much more than just a "pretty picture" of a fence.

But, as I said earlier, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


Yup, there is an argument to be made that it could be construed to be about a fence by the slight hint of one in the image. Absolutely.

But ask 100 people and most of them will say it is about a tiger and most wouldn't mention the fence at all. Those people are going to be giving it 1's, 2's and 3's. The OP asked if it deserved 17 1's. I'm surprised it has so few on reflection. Most people vote very quickly. Essentially, to do well, you have to consider the first one or two words that would pop into the average viewers head when they looked at your image. For this image, fence isn't it. If you want to score well, that word should be close to the challenge theme.

If you have to spend a few minutes to even get the point of how it relates at all to the theme and that relationship is quite tenuous even when you get there, then many voters will have already hit the 1 button and moved on.

Message edited by author 2008-03-26 18:19:13.
 03/26/2008 06:30:03 PM · #38
Gordon, you make a very good point with respect to how to score well in challenges, and in explaining lower scores. If I were to show my Patterns entry to 10 people and say "Does this say 'patterns' to you?", I'm guessing well more than half of them would say "Huh?". I concede that it does not meet the challenge and explains my current score quite nicely! Of course, being the stubborn person I am, I entered it anyway, pretty much already knowing that. And I did shoot it for the challenge, but that isn't a factor in score, only in my own mind.
 03/26/2008 08:59:43 PM · #39
on second thought, I may have voted a 1 on it.
 03/26/2008 09:50:50 PM · #40
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm getting sick of hearing the phrase "eye candy" being thrown about as if to assume every ribbon winning shooter sells his soul and sacrifices creativity in order to score well.


I prefer eye candy when it's served as the appetizer (with rosemary) and not as the main dish. Problem is most of the time all you need is the appetizer to do very well in these challenges so there is little incentive to do anything more especially if you're just "playing the game". Heck, I recently entered a shot taken about 30 minutes before the deadline in a rush to avoid a dreaded 5 score in the DPC Olympics. It's pretty much 100% eye candy so naturally it's doing pretty well.

Message edited by author 2008-03-26 21:52:14.
 03/26/2008 09:51:33 PM · #41
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
on second thought, I may have voted a 1 on it.


Are you also taking 30% off on top of that?
 03/27/2008 01:24:07 AM · #42
Originally posted by yanko:
Heck, I recently entered a shot taken about 30 minutes before the deadline in a rush to avoid a dreaded 5 score in the DPC Olympics. It's pretty much 100% eye candy so naturally it's doing pretty well.

98% of us can't do that - I have seriously tried a number of times to shoot an "eye candy" shot and have yet to truly succeed. So apparently there must be some talent or vision involved to create and see what makes good "eye candy".
 03/27/2008 03:55:35 AM · #43
Originally posted by Gordon:
It's a picture of a tiger. Ask 100 people off the street to describe that shot and maybe 1 in 10 might mention something about the distorting thing in front of the tiger. A handful of them might well know it was caused by a really out of focus bit of wire fencing.
It is really doubtful that any one of those 100 people would mention that the shot was anything to do with a fence, other than as a minor technical complaint.

Does it meet the challenge - in the least possible way, yes. There is a fence in the image.

Is the image anything to do with the challenge topic ? Probably not.

This pretty much says it all to me, and I would probably have voted this a 4 had I seen it for precisely these reasons.
 03/27/2008 08:51:25 AM · #44
Just a thought but if Mike or I had submitted our images in an Animal Challenge I wonder how many 1's and comments of 'the fence is too distracting' we would get?





03/27/2008 08:56:12 AM · #45
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Just a thought but if Mike or I had submitted our images in an Animal Challenge I wonder how many 1's and comments of 'the fence is too distracting' we would get?

Probably a ton! :-) Then again, that would be a totally different challenge. In an animal challenge the fence WOULD be too much of a distraction. For the fence challenge, there wasn't enough fence, nor was the fence enough of a subject (look at the Top 10).
 03/27/2008 11:15:01 AM · #46
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Just a thought but if Mike or I had submitted our images in an Animal Challenge I wonder how many 1's and comments of 'the fence is too distracting' we would get?


And, being competent photographers like you fellas are, you probably would try different size lenses, different angles, and if that didn't work, and you liked the POV of the tiger as is, but the fence was in the way, then I am convinced that you fellas would try a long lens, standing back far enough with a center focal point activated on your expensive cameras to capture the tiger without the distraction of the fence.

Yep, I am sure that is what you guys would of done.

Blue ribbons for everyone!

Message edited by author 2008-03-27 11:15:21.
 03/27/2008 03:56:47 PM · #47
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Gordon:
It's a picture of a tiger. Ask 100 people off the street to describe that shot and maybe 1 in 10 might mention something about the distorting thing in front of the tiger. A handful of them might well know it was caused by a really out of focus bit of wire fencing.
It is really doubtful that any one of those 100 people would mention that the shot was anything to do with a fence, other than as a minor technical complaint.

Does it meet the challenge - in the least possible way, yes. There is a fence in the image.

Is the image anything to do with the challenge topic ? Probably not.

This pretty much says it all to me, and I would probably have voted this a 4 had I seen it for precisely these reasons.


But if you ask 100 people I'm sure you'll also get a fair share who believe in things like the easter bunny. By any chance are you one of them? :P
 03/27/2008 04:10:31 PM · #48
Originally posted by yanko:
But if you ask 100 people I'm sure you'll also get a fair share who believe in things like the easter bunny. By any chance are you one of them? :P


Only a madman wouldn't. There's plenty of evidence out there.
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