am i being too critical ...B&W - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/28/2008 10:45:09 AM · #27

Originally posted by SkyeMari:

Originally posted by nlghttrain:
I dont know if it's just me but I put a lot of effort in to making sure there was absolutly no color showing in my shot I didnt submit shots that I felt were stronger than the one i used if there was any bit of color showing.

I completely agree with you. I was actually pretty angry when i saw that a good amount of pictures had color. I will be very upset if any of the ribbons have color in them.

This is the prevailing attitude, even though it's wrong. That's what happens when anyone can vote. Buying a camera at Wal-Mart and posting a snapshot shouldn't be qualifications to vote.

JaimeVinas

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

02/28/2008 10:54:14 AM · #28

I think its up to the photographer to create no doubts nor questions about the concept of their shots. The winners usually are those who have it straight on. I have had many comments saying things that I dont necessarily agree with, but I try to put myself in the voter's shoes and see what I did wrong. I learn and grow to be a better photographer. I figured if I had done an excellent job, I wouldnt have any critiques. I always welcome feedback even if I dont agree with it.

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 11:11:22.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

02/28/2008 11:03:19 AM · #29

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

I think its up to the photographer to create no doubts nor questions about the concept of their shots. The winners usually are those who have it straight on. I have had many comments saying things that I dont necessarily agree with, but I try to put myself in the voter's shoes and see what I did wrong. I learn and grow to be a better photographer. I figured if I had dont an excellent job, I wouldnt have any critiques. I always welcome feedback even if I dont agree with it.

I fully agree with you.

If a person is going to be critical, though, the least they can do is be right.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

02/28/2008 11:07:08 AM · #30

Originally posted by Zeuss:

If a person is going to be critical, though, the least they can do is be right.

Those are generally the people left scratching their heads when they discover a shot they gave a 2 on finished with a ribbon. You can't really control individual interpretations.

nlghttrain

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

02/28/2008 11:07:57 AM · #31

Originally posted by Zeuss:

Originally posted by SkyeMari:

Originally posted by nlghttrain:
I dont know if it's just me but I put a lot of effort in to making sure there was absolutly no color showing in my shot I didnt submit shots that I felt were stronger than the one i used if there was any bit of color showing.

I completely agree with you. I was actually pretty angry when i saw that a good amount of pictures had color. I will be very upset if any of the ribbons have color in them.

This is the prevailing attitude, even though it's wrong. That's what happens when anyone can vote. Buying a camera at Wal-Mart and posting a snapshot shouldn't be qualifications to vote.

First off that was just a rude jab This is a site that I love, and reccomend because it is a fantastic place to learn and grow. Comments like that are just not called for!

Back to being on topic. I didnt respond back last night because I wanted to sleep on this... I do understand both sides of the argument. I always love to play devils advocate. However despite the oppinions opposite mine I still feel that the challenge of this challenge was to recreate a black and white image. I did leave sizable comments on most of the shots I voted for and I am going to go back and leave comments on the rest before the challenge ends. I refuse to leave a comment that just said DNMC Since i feel it is unhelpful, but instead give a decent critique of the shot inside and out side of the challenge. And that will be that

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

02/28/2008 11:12:09 AM · #32

unnecessary

Originally posted by Zeuss:

Buying a camera at Wal-Mart and posting a snapshot shouldn't be qualifications to vote.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

02/28/2008 11:12:24 AM · #33

OK - what should the qualifications be? PS: d80 at WalMart

Originally posted by Zeuss:

This is the prevailing attitude, even though it's wrong. That's what happens when anyone can vote. Buying a camera at Wal-Mart and posting a snapshot shouldn't be qualifications to vote.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

02/28/2008 11:18:04 AM · #34

Originally posted by Zeuss:

... If a person is going to be critical, though, the least they can do is be right.

Based on whose criteria? Yours? That would be pretty closed minded.

02/28/2008 11:23:00 AM · #35

Originally posted by Zeuss:

This is the prevailing attitude, even though it's wrong.

I think the spirit of the challenge was to take a picture that appeared to be b/w even if it wasn't explicitly stated.

Originally posted by Zeuss:

Buying a camera at Wal-Mart and posting a snapshot shouldn't be qualifications to vote.

Owning a computer shouldn't be qualifications to access the Internet.

02/28/2008 11:23:37 AM · #36

Originally posted by nlghttrain:

Originally posted by Zeuss:

Originally posted by SkyeMari:

Originally posted by nlghttrain:
I dont know if it's just me but I put a lot of effort in to making sure there was absolutly no color showing in my shot I didnt submit shots that I felt were stronger than the one i used if there was any bit of color showing.

I completely agree with you. I was actually pretty angry when i saw that a good amount of pictures had color. I will be very upset if any of the ribbons have color in them.

This is the prevailing attitude, even though it's wrong. That's what happens when anyone can vote. Buying a camera at Wal-Mart and posting a snapshot shouldn't be qualifications to vote.

First off that was just a rude jab This is a site that I love, and reccomend because it is a fantastic place to learn and grow. Comments like that are just not called for!

Back to being on topic. I didnt respond back last night because I wanted to sleep on this... I do understand both sides of the argument. I always love to play devils advocate. However despite the oppinions opposite mine I still feel that the challenge of this challenge was to recreate a black and white image. I did leave sizable comments on most of the shots I voted for and I am going to go back and leave comments on the rest before the challenge ends. I refuse to leave a comment that just said DNMC Since i feel it is unhelpful, but instead give a decent critique of the shot inside and out side of the challenge. And that will be that

OOOO, you took it personally. NO, I'm not jabbing at you. Sorry if it came across that way.

I think that a professional evaluation of the photos would be much more meaningful than everyone voting. That's all I'm saying. That means the site council would be the only voters and although an unreasonable request, the ranking of the photos would be more correct with photographic "law". Just think of how busy they'd be keeping up with the work, though.

SaraR

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

02/28/2008 11:29:54 AM · #37

Originally posted by Zeuss:

I think that a professional evaluation of the photos would be much more meaningful than everyone voting. That's all I'm saying. That means the site council would be the only voters and although an unreasonable request, the ranking of the photos would be more correct with photographic "law". Just think of how busy they'd be keeping up with the work, though.

I am sure that members of the site council would not consider themselves (at least as a consolidated group) as arbiters of photographic technique, aesthetic appeal, and visual narrative (message, story telling, however you want to describe it), but rather as able administrators who have a passion for the continued existance of DPChallenge!

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

02/28/2008 11:30:02 AM · #38

Originally posted by oscarthepig:

Originally posted by Zeuss:
This is the prevailing attitude, even though it's wrong.

I think the spirit of the challenge was to take a picture that appeared to be b/w even if it wasn't explicitly stated.

If it wasn't explicitly stated, then you're not understanding the description! If they wanted it to be a B&W picture, they would have said that. They didn't. They said "the subject" was to be B&W. The photo is not required to appear B&W. It appears that most of the voters are adding things to the description that aren't there.

JMart

Nikon D80

02/28/2008 11:30:19 AM · #39

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Zeuss:
... If a person is going to be critical, though, the least they can do is be right.

Based on whose criteria? Yours? That would be pretty closed minded.

Based on the challenge criteria:
Take a COLOR photo of a black & white (or gray scale) subject or subjects.

This is VERY different than
Take a COLOR photo and make it look like a black & white (or gray scale) photo.

It sounds to me like people who spent a great deal of time & effort doing the 2nd version are jeallous that others didn't have to go through that difficulty. If they score accordingly that is certainly up to them. Still, I think Zeuss has a valid point. Saying that "subject"="whole photo" is simply incorrect (unless your subject fills the frame), but then, we're allowed to be incorrect too I suppose.

02/28/2008 11:34:42 AM · #40

Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by Zeuss:

I think that a professional evaluation of the photos would be much more meaningful than everyone voting. That's all I'm saying. That means the site council would be the only voters and although an unreasonable request, the ranking of the photos would be more correct with photographic "law". Just think of how busy they'd be keeping up with the work, though.

I am sure that members of the site council would not consider themselves (at least as a consolidated group) as arbiters of photographic technique, aesthetic appeal, and visual narrative (message, story telling, however you want to describe it), but rather as able administrators who have a passion for the continued existance of DPChallenge!

OK, then let the voters be college professors of photography. It'll never happen. So I get my Brown Ribbon for following the description of the challenge. Such is life.

02/28/2008 11:36:33 AM · #41

Originally posted by marttila:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Zeuss:
... If a person is going to be critical, though, the least they can do is be right.

Based on whose criteria? Yours? That would be pretty closed minded.

Based on the challenge criteria:
Take a COLOR photo of a black & white (or gray scale) subject or subjects.

This is VERY different than
Take a COLOR photo and make it look like a black & white (or gray scale) photo.

It sounds to me like people who spent a great deal of time & effort doing the 2nd version are jeallous that others didn't have to go through that difficulty. If they score accordingly that is certainly up to them. Still, I think Zeuss has a valid point. Saying that "subject"="whole photo" is simply incorrect (unless your subject fills the frame), but then, we're allowed to be incorrect too I suppose.

Thank you, Marttila!

BTW, I didn't get my D80 at Wal-Mart, I got it at Costco. :)

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 11:37:01.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

02/28/2008 11:37:52 AM · #42

Originally posted by marttila:

I guess this is out of context. Following is the quote that Zeuss was responding to, and I read it to mean critiquing (feedback) in general.

Originally posted by JaimeVinas:

I think its up to the photographer to create no doubts nor questions about the concept of their shots. The winners usually are those who have it straight on. I have had many comments saying things that I dont necessarily agree with, but I try to put myself in the voter's shoes and see what I did wrong. I learn and grow to be a better photographer. I figured if I had dont an excellent job, I wouldnt have any critiques. I always welcome feedback even if I dont agree with it.

Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di for Nikon

02/28/2008 11:40:31 AM · #43

Originally posted by Zeuss:

Originally posted by oscarthepig:

Originally posted by Zeuss:
This is the prevailing attitude, even though it's wrong.

I think the spirit of the challenge was to take a picture that appeared to be b/w even if it wasn't explicitly stated.

If it wasn't explicitly stated, then you're not understanding the description! If they wanted it to be a B&W picture, they would have said that. They didn't. They said "the subject" was to be B&W. The photo is not required to appear B&W. It appears that most of the voters are adding things to the description that aren't there.

I would also argue that the background is as much a part of the subject as the "subject".

I would also be willing to concede that a touch of color (a black cat's eyes, for example) would be ok...much the same way that a selectively desaturated image (outside of this challenge) would be more-or-less considered b/w

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 11:44:00.

JMart

Nikon D80

02/28/2008 11:47:22 AM · #44

Originally posted by oscarthepig:

I would also argue that the background is as much a part of the subject as the "subject".

If that were true, then what was the point of the fill the frame challenge? All frames are filled already according to such a very loose definition of "subject"

mgsmith53

Pentax K-R

Pentax DA L 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL

02/28/2008 11:50:41 AM · #45

I think there needs to be a lot of lattitude in order for creative ideas and expressions to be welcomed and encouraged. BUT- calling a horse's tail its leg doesn't make it have five legs. Calling a minor feature of a photograph its "subject" does not make it so. But it IS all in fun, and all in learning and pushing the edges. I just think words and titles should have meaning if we're going to communicate.
Mike

epescala

Nikon D7500

Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DL Macro Super for Nikon

02/28/2008 11:50:55 AM · #46

I feel like the good thing about the members voting is that you get so many different opinions and reactions. From all those you can decide which ones you find helpful or not. I have noticed that a lot of the people here have learned photography on their own (I might be wrong). For me, having photography as a mayor in college has made me extremely critical when voting. I look at the technique as well as the image itself.

It makes me angry too that I went through so much effort to take a photo that fits the parameters of the challenge, and then I see images that don't even look right technically (OOF, contrast, saturation, etc.). We are all photographers here, and whether or not you believe there had to be no color or there could be color, we should at least take the time to create something better than the average Joe could with his point and shoot.

02/28/2008 11:56:37 AM · #47

Originally posted by marttila:

Originally posted by oscarthepig:

I would also argue that the background is as much a part of the subject as the "subject".

If that were true, then what was the point of the fill the frame challenge? All frames are filled already according to such a very loose definition of "subject"

All I'm saying is the background is a major element in a lot of shots.