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02/19/2008 02:05:50 AM · #176 |
Originally posted by jschro:
Anyone know where I can find a dead horse to beat? |
speaking of constructive and useful comments........ |
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02/19/2008 02:12:05 AM · #177 |
When you add the Delete Comment button, will you please also add a Delete Last Score button as well? I really HATE the way some of these jackasses score my images. I only want 8s or better AND comments that tell me how great of a photographer that I am. Perhaps we should run a poll?
Get over it already. If you don't want comments that you might not like or might not agree with, post your photos on your wall at home and have your friends tell you how nice they all are when they come over. |
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02/19/2008 02:13:37 AM · #178 |
| Too bad it has to be a dead horse |
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02/19/2008 02:56:18 AM · #179 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Melethia:
A thought - instead of using your typing skills to contribute to this thread, try commenting on a few pictures instead. Be brave! But be tactful. Just think how much better the words could be used if spread around to a few portfolios. |
You mean just ignore it and move on? What's the point of these forums if it's not to complain? :P |
I typed this just as I was leaving for work and thought to myself "Self, I bet you get Yanko'd" So thanks for saving me! :-) And yet no one has left me any comments. C'mon - I've got new stuff there. You can make fun of any of my models since I have no idea who any of them are and they undoubtedly don't know they're on the internet. (Last line about "you can make fun of" is of course tongue in cheek for those who weren't sure.)
Message edited by author 2008-02-19 03:14:07. |
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02/19/2008 03:18:25 AM · #180 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
Originally posted by yanko:
Welcome to the internet! Actually, welcome to the real world. You think this is bad, try posting your photos on other sites the size of this and see what happens. Most have the same issues or worse. At least there is some moderation here even if you think it isn't as good as you like it to be. Just think about what is involved here. You are posting a photo that thousands around the world can see. Just think if you stapled the same photo out on the street somewhere what the reaction would be. Just a hunch but I'm guessing someone might think your subject needs a moustache at the very least. :) |
Yeah, those were the words I was looking for.
BEWARE the DANGERS of THE InterNET!
[thumb]648603[/thumb]
I wonder Nomad, is your wife afraid of what others might be thinking as well as what they might say? Does she understand how little difference there is? The good news is, it's usually nowhere near as bad as one could imagine. |
Actually the cat had a fu manchu but I cloned it out prior to submitting. :P
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02/19/2008 07:30:38 AM · #181 |
I wonder what the real-life analogy of having editorial control over comments would be...
"Hmmm. What you just said doesn't sit well with me. Now I'm going to have to kill you." |
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02/19/2008 09:48:48 AM · #182 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
Originally posted by jschro:
Anyone know where I can find a dead horse to beat? |
speaking of constructive and useful comments........ |
Isn't that the point? This thread (and the others just like it ) have NO reason to continue. Some people like whining about things and the SC has given ample reasons as to why the rules are the way they are. So, if you don't like it take your photos elsewhere. The "report post" button works for me, although I haven't had the pleasure of having to use it. Some people can't take constructive comments for what they are, they want everything sugar coated. |
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02/19/2008 10:09:28 AM · #183 |
If you ask me ... most comments are too sugar coated....
not the point (at least not mine) ...
I really don't want to get this ball in motion again but ...let me say this...
I have had critiques from some of my professors that would have reduced many here to tears. Harsh, specific, and with a element of compassion shared only by a laser guided missile. I Learned from those. Again steel sharpens steel. My voice in all of this was not about normal critiques but personal attacks of the people that have been nice enough to pose for the images.
We are not talking for example comments like "the facial expression is wrong" or "the pose is bad" or even the wardrobe does not work the polka dots is really unbecoming to the model" We are talking about slams at the person that has nothing to do with the creative process.
Some here have turned this into a debate about "censorship" and "limiting free speech" and yak like that and frankly added to the theatrics. In my mind ... this conversation has never been about that. It is about protecting the models that we use from unwarranted, unwanted, and insensitive comments left by some for what ever reason. Agreed, in some cases it is unintentional on the part of the commenter but sometimes it is .
This is not a rampant problem but it is a problem.
There is a system in place to handle such situations but it confrontational in nature and it requires a third-party (the SC) to "validate" the fact that you found a comment insulting (Making the SC pick sides) This is not at all a good position for the SC. But it seems that they rather enjoy the role of playground monitor.
I simply maintain that a different system is called for. Nothing to do about censoring comments... or not liking a on point critique (Hell give me more of them PLEASE) but protecting the relationship between the model and the photographer.
ETA:
Let me clarify one thing ... there are sites (Model Mayhem comes to mind) where on point comments about the subject are fully inbounds (the model looks fat in that pose). That is a different venue with a different focus and mission. that I think is fine ... bring it on ... This venue is about photography... technique ... style ... mechanics ... not as much about the subject but what the photographer has done with the subject. To me there is a world of difference.
Message edited by author 2008-02-19 10:50:59.
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02/19/2008 10:41:48 AM · #184 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by nomad469:
This is why I am saying a method to remove comments on a limited basis ... without intervention of the SC is is a good thing. |
A method already exists. Send a polite PM- "I appreciate the time you took to post a comment (maybe a different camera angle or lighting could have worked), but my model is rather sensitive. Would you mind editing your comment to prevent an embarrassing situation? Thanks!" |
And if they refuse?
Why should I have to ask anyway? The commenter can return at any time and change their comment to whatever they want, without asking. Yet the photographer remains hobbled.
I'm sorry, but comments that belittle the model or offend them, no matter how oversensitive they may seem to someone else, are not OK.
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02/19/2008 10:44:25 AM · #185 |
Originally posted by jschro:
Isn't that the point? This thread (and the others just like it ) have NO reason to continue. Some people like whining about things and the SC has given ample reasons as to why the rules are the way they are. So, if you don't like it take your photos elsewhere. The "report post" button works for me, although I haven't had the pleasure of having to use it. Some people can't take constructive comments for what they are, they want everything sugar coated. |
You're absolutely, completely missing the point. You seem to be late to the conversation, so I'll once again summarize what all this is about.
For those saying things like "get over it", hinting that people asking for this feature are just a bunch of whiny babies, or who are saying that some of us think the site is irrepairably damaged, or that SC is an evil cadre of moustache-twirling villains, thanks so much for taking our concerns seriously.
The conversation spilled into this thread because the other was locked, this one wasn't. This is an old thread. It's thread necromancy going on here. I'm the OP. As far as I can tell, this is the original request for a "delete comment from photo" button. If you haven't read the original post here, do so, because it contains the seminal elements of the discussion in my opinion.
We are not asking to have the ability to delete comments because we hate constructive criticism. We do not get offended when someone says, "This picture is poorly lit, and you did a bad job at composition." We do not go into paroxysms of rage when someone suggests our choice of duotone is weird.
Everyone without exception who is in favour of this feature and has posted in all these threads is asking for some sort of control over the comments on the photos we own because we have direct experience of what we consider abusive behaviour.
Need examples? You don't get any. All you need to know is that people feel abused or vulnerable or liabelled or whatever. That should be good enough for SC to immediately remove comments on request or provide us with the ability to do so ourselves.
What do you care? As someone else asked, what on earth are you afraid of? That the whole educational slant of the site will disappear in a week because a few numbskulls are going to prune out the constructive crticism to make themselves look like photographic heroes? Please.
It has been pointed out by SC that they get requests all the time from such people asking to remove perfectly legitimate comments. Look at the first post here: I already knew that was a possibility. So what? Apparently they're already dealing with the workload and have to reply even to those tickets. If we can't have a delete button, why on earth would it be so horrible to err on the side of the photographer's wishes, while still ultimately controlling everything and making the choice not to delete when it's bloody obvious? Their workload doesn't change, they just indulge the wishes of the photographer who otherwise has no control, but who knows better than they what's inside the grey area. I haven't heard any rationale for this yet.
So, please don't add to the acrimony by insulting the intelligence of those simply exercising their right to ask for and discuss a feature of a website they're paying good money for.
Message edited by author 2008-02-19 11:16:20. |
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02/19/2008 10:49:43 AM · #186 |
Yikes! Reading these threads you would think DPC has a huge problem with people leaving rude, mean, racial and offensive comments! And you’d think the SC is a evil organization heading up a Nazi like regime that is intent on forcing us to endure these horribly offensive comments! All this anger and heat over a little button to remove maybe 0.3% of the comments here??? Is that really the case, or are people worried Leroy may remove all his nude photos?
I have an idea though! Why not put a button on the comment where you can report it to the SC, who are a diverse and fair group. Then they can discuss it in committee and remove it if they agree that is or could be perceived as offensive? Oh wait, we have that.
Oh, another idea! Why not be an adult, kindly PM the person that made the comment and let them know that their comment caused (or might cause) major mental trauma to the fragile ego of your nude model, and if they can find it in their heart to remove or edit the comment you’ll continue to post nude photos of her!
Oh, one more idea! If your model may be mentally destroyed because one person on the internet thinks they look bored, have an unattractive belly, or appear to be urinating, maybe it’s a good idea to not post their photo on the internet! Furthermore, inform them that they have no future career as a model because in the real world people don’t always like you and are not always nice.
Okay, I feel better now.
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02/19/2008 10:55:46 AM · #187 |
Originally posted by Louis:
... Everyone without exception who has posted in all these threads is asking for some sort of control over the comments on the photos we own because we have direct experience of what we consider abusive behaviour. |
Hello!? Everyone without exception? That's a pipe dream. Thanks for speaking for ALL of us - NOT. I'm opposed to having a delete comment button, have stated so, and I'm not alone in that sentiment.
Originally posted by Louis:
... What do you care? As someone else asked, what on earth are you afraid of? That the whole educational slant of the site will disappear in a week because a few numbskulls are going to prune out the constructive crticism to make themselves look like photographic heroes? Please. |
Valid reasons for this concern have been raised numerous times...you don't like them perhaps, so you don't recognize their value?
Originally posted by Louis:
... So, please don't add to the acrimony by insulting the intelligence of those simply exercising their right to ask for and discuss a feature of a website they're paying good money for. |
And who put you in charge? All of the members on this site pay good money and get good value from DPChallenge. Not everyone agrees with your POV. Ok?
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02/19/2008 10:56:11 AM · #188 |
How come there is no mechanism to vote on difficult issues such as this? I mean democracy works once in while, let's use it. Since members pay to be on this site, they should have some say in how it its run. Not a select few.
Message edited by author 2008-02-19 10:56:58. |
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02/19/2008 11:00:44 AM · #189 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Louis:
... So, please don't add to the acrimony by insulting the intelligence of those simply exercising their right to ask for and discuss a feature of a website they're paying good money for. |
And who put you in charge? All of the members on this site pay good money and get good value from DPChallenge. Not everyone agrees with your POV. Ok? |
No, but on the other hand, replies like "get over it", "live with it", "end of story", etc., have the veneer of sensibility but are actually antagonistic. I think Louis has a right to respond.
Message edited by author 2008-02-19 11:01:32. |
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02/19/2008 11:03:00 AM · #190 |
There is an informal poll here.
It was suggested that you could put you answer (1 - 6 or 7, however many choices there were) there. It's bulky, it's not easy to count, but it will let you register your opinion.
It was also explained that Langdon is the only one who can set up a site wide poll. |
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02/19/2008 11:04:11 AM · #191 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Yikes! Reading these threads you would think DPC has a huge problem with people leaving rude, mean, racial and offensive comments! And you’d think the SC is a evil organization heading up a Nazi like regime that is intent on forcing us to endure these horribly offensive comments! All this anger and heat over a little button to remove maybe 0.3% of the comments here??? Is that really the case, or are people worried Leroy may remove all his nude photos?
I have an idea though! Why not put a button on the comment where you can report it to the SC, who are a diverse and fair group. Then they can discuss it in committee and remove it if they agree that is or could be perceived as offensive? Oh wait, we have that.
Oh, another idea! Why not be an adult, kindly PM the person that made the comment and let them know that their comment caused (or might cause) major mental trauma to the fragile ego of your nude model, and if they can find it in their heart to remove or edit the comment you’ll continue to post nude photos of her!
Oh, one more idea! If your model may be mentally destroyed because one person on the internet thinks they look bored, have an unattractive belly, or appear to be urinating, maybe it’s a good idea to not post their photo on the internet! Furthermore, inform them that they have no future career as a model because in the real world people don’t always like you and are not always nice.
Okay, I feel better now. |
Glad you feel better
Point 1
I have said Originally posted by Nomad469:
This is not a rampant problem but it is a problem |
I have had a situation come up exactly 4 times that spooled me up over a comment - 1 time I left it alone 1 time got reported twice the commentor changed it without me having to get invloved. That is is almost 3 years here.
Point 2
There have been cases that have nothing to do with a nude model ... a rapper or anything along that line ... but have been preceeved insulting none the less. Comments that had nothing to do with the merits of the photograph.
Point3
Kindly PMing does not work in all cases
Point4
I agree there is a amount of filtering that needs to be done before posting anything anywhere. But there are some times that you cant anticipate a comment out of left field.
Point 4a
I actually have had that conversation with several wanna-be "models"
I think that this is a different situation that that
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02/19/2008 11:05:46 AM · #192 |
Originally posted by citymars:
...I think Louis has a right to respond. |
Yes, he does, as we all do. I prefer to speak for myself rather than have someone take it upon themself to assume they are speaking for "everyone".
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02/19/2008 11:06:14 AM · #193 |
| I've been following this issue and have kept my mouth shut, but there is one thing I would like to say. I keep hearing 'photo.net has blah blah blah' or 'such and such a site has a delete button' or 'this modeling site let them critique models' and I'm sick of hearing about the other sites!! THIS SITE is not photo.net, pbase.com, a modeling website, or any other site besides that. This site is dpchallenge.com and the way this site is set up is what brought me here to become a member. I tried out many of the other websites and didn't like this aspect, or didn't like that aspect, so I didn't join. I joined here because I like what goes on, I like the challenges, and I've gained a lot of knowledge from everything that happens here. As a whole, we need to decide what is right for THIS SITE, not how it compares to others. |
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02/19/2008 11:08:19 AM · #194 |
Originally posted by Gotaka:
How come there is no mechanism to vote on difficult issues such as this? I mean democracy works once in while, let's use it. Since members pay to be on this site, they should have some say in how it its run. Not a select few. |
That would be this thread, where the poll was suggested. Though the thread is now about why the person who suggested the poll was suspended shortly afterwards.
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02/19/2008 11:11:05 AM · #195 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Louis:
... Everyone without exception who has posted in all these threads is asking for some sort of control over the comments on the photos we own because we have direct experience of what we consider abusive behaviour. |
Hello!? Everyone without exception? That's a pipe dream. Thanks for speaking for ALL of us - NOT. I'm opposed to having a delete comment button, have stated so, and I'm not alone in that sentiment. |
You misunderstood. "Everyone who is for this feature without exception" is not a raving nut, is what I meant. I obviously understand there's more than one opinion here. |
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02/19/2008 11:12:28 AM · #196 |
The point is that you're asking for a feature that WILL be abused by some people. That's the truth. I myself wouldn't, and you probably would not either. I'm not questioning anyone in particular's intelligence or integrity. Just because I'm "late to the discussion" doesn't mean that I haven't read it earlier, b/c I have and finally reached the point that I thought I'd add my thoughts.
Rules are in place. You surely have a right to question any rule you see as lacking. But after getting an answer from those that actually make the decisions here don't continue to drag it out. At this point it IS pointless. If your claim is that you spend good money here, then let your checkbook speak and don't renew if you feel so strongly about it. |
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02/19/2008 11:12:36 AM · #197 |
Originally posted by karmat:
There is an informal poll here.
It was suggested that you could put you answer (1 - 6 or 7, however many choices there were) there. It's bulky, it's not easy to count, but it will let you register your opinion.
It was also explained that Langdon is the only one who can set up a site wide poll. |
I've just been yanko'ed |
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02/19/2008 11:13:48 AM · #198 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by citymars:
...I think Louis has a right to respond. |
Yes, he does, as we all do. I prefer to speak for myself rather than have someone take it upon themself to assume they are speaking for "everyone". |
Pardon me, I was speaking for those that want this feature, and suggesting that they're not all a bunch of whiny kids seeking to make themselves look better. You've misunderstood me. I wasn't speaking for you or anyone who doesn't want this feature. And I certainly don't think I'm in charge, an accusation that puzzles me. |
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02/19/2008 11:14:36 AM · #199 |
Originally posted by karmat:
There is an informal poll here.
It was suggested that you could put you answer (1 - 6 or 7, however many choices there were) there. It's bulky, it's not easy to count, but it will let you register your opinion.
It was also explained that Langdon is the only one who can set up a site wide poll. |
Has he left the country for an extended period of time ? :)
It seems something of a quandary for the SC position though. The expressed concern with a delete button is that everyone would use it all the time for almost any comment that didn't praise an image, rendering the comment system a barren wasteland of attaboys. It would then follow that a vast majority of the users would want it and use it all the time. Otherwise the initial concern over putting it in place is just so much hot air.
So either everyone wants it, and the SC are protecting us from ourselves.
Or nobody really cares and the SC are just blowing smoke.
A poll would show that not many people want it, so it should be implemented.
Or a poll would show a majority want it, and by the original SC argument, it shouldn't be implemented.
Either we are collectively too immature to use a delete button and clammering for it, based on the logs from report comment,
or nobody would really use it, aside from the few outlying cases that would actually improve the experience for photographers and don't really have any detrimental effect on the quality of comments.
In which case, this is all a storm in a teacup or a forum storm as some seem to want to call it and the SC could easily make it all go away with just a slight positional shift in which they side with the photographers more than the commentors on generally useless but vaguely insulting comments.
Interesting.
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02/19/2008 11:15:38 AM · #200 |
Originally posted by TygerPawz:
I've been following this issue and have kept my mouth shut, but there is one thing I would like to say. I keep hearing 'photo.net has blah blah blah' or 'such and such a site has a delete button' or 'this modeling site let them critique models' and I'm sick of hearing about the other sites!! THIS SITE is not photo.net, pbase.com, a modeling website, or any other site besides that. This site is dpchallenge.com and the way this site is set up is what brought me here to become a member. I tried out many of the other websites and didn't like this aspect, or didn't like that aspect, so I didn't join. I joined here because I like what goes on, I like the challenges, and I've gained a lot of knowledge from everything that happens here. As a whole, we need to decide what is right for THIS SITE, not how it compares to others. |
I fully agree with you ... the only reason that I brought up MM as an example was due to the difference in philosophy and focus not operational differences
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