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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Canon's newest: the EOS 450D, also new lenses
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Showing posts 51 - 75 of 78, (reverse)
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 01/24/2008 07:15:44 PM · #51
Originally posted by dmadden:
...i still cant get used to that small rebel body.


With the grip, Rebel sure looks like a pro camera :/ also 450D has a larger body.
 01/24/2008 07:37:29 PM · #52
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by dmadden:
...i still cant get used to that small rebel body.


With the grip, Rebel sure looks like a pro camera :/ also 450D has a larger body.


Ohh your right! it is slightly bigger. Pentax has done something similar with the k200d. It's very close to the k20d in features, it's even weather proof. I want that body too. Meanwhile! by the time i'm ready to buy, the 40d should be well within target range. At the rate their releasing models, I'd never dream of buying just released. The value drops so much, unlike glass. The way things are going, the 40d should settle at around $900 later this yr.
So cool having 2 brands :)
 01/24/2008 07:49:00 PM · #53
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by dmadden:
...i still cant get used to that small rebel body.


With the grip, Rebel sure looks like a pro camera :/ also 450D has a larger body.

This new Rebel XSi still has a plastic body, unlike the 40d, 5d, 1d product lines.

01/24/2008 08:41:27 PM · #54
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Perhaps he was merely saying that having spot-metering at all makes this camera an upgrade (with the other features) over the 40D even though it is in a lower line? Canon's entry-level line has never had spot-metering previously and so would be a selling feature for the 40D line.


Yeah "he" was... Replied earlier with something similar :-) Apart from the fps & build/feel there seems to be no reason to get the 40D IMO. I am hanging out for FF, so no matter to me either way (unless that 5D-II is magic, I might just buy a lightly used 5D when they go on sale for the newest thing)... Just don't understand the marketing logic in it that's all :shrug: They need a bigger gap in functionality and another model to compete with the D300, cause they have nothing right now... unless you step up to a 1-series.
 01/24/2008 09:17:32 PM · #55
Originally posted by David Newland:
$5,999 for 200mm?
They know where they can stick that.
It wont be lead based glass either and for less then that price you can get a pristine 200mm F1.8 L
Sorry Canon, even with IS that price tag is unjustified.


But you can't get your 200 1.8 fixed anymore, so if you break it, you have to throw it out.

And one reason they updated all those lenses in the past 2 years (16-35, 85 1.2, 50 1.2, 14, etc) is because the 21mp sensor out resolves film and the lenses weren't up to it.

Not that' I'm gonna spend $6 grand on that lens either. If you need the speed you need the speed, but the 70-200 2.8 IS is about a stop slower, a lot more versatile and $4300 cheaper!
 01/24/2008 10:48:18 PM · #56
Originally posted by robs:
Apart from the fps & build/feel there seems to be no reason to get the 40D IMO.

Unless you don't want better weather sealing, a larger viewfinder, 1/8000s top shutter speed, ISO 3200, a Pentaprism viewfinder, a larger viewfinder, more cross type AF sensors, whew! ;-)

01/24/2008 10:52:07 PM · #57
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Unless you don't want better weather sealing, a larger viewfinder, 1/8000s top shutter speed, ISO 3200, a Pentaprism viewfinder, a larger viewfinder, more cross type AF sensors, whew! ;-)


LOL... Hey... You mentioned "larger viewfinder" twice, that's cheating or marketing at least... :-)
 01/24/2008 10:52:19 PM · #58
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by robs:
Apart from the fps & build/feel there seems to be no reason to get the 40D IMO.

Unless you don't want better weather sealing, a larger viewfinder, 1/8000s top shutter speed, ISO 3200, a Pentaprism viewfinder, a larger viewfinder, more cross type AF sensors, whew! ;-)


Changable focusing screens, larger buffer, more fps...
01/24/2008 10:55:49 PM · #59
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Unless you don't want better weather sealing, a larger viewfinder, 1/8000s top shutter speed, ISO 3200, a Pentaprism viewfinder, a larger viewfinder, more cross type AF sensors, whew! ;-)


LOL... Hey... You mentioned "larger viewfinder" twice, that's cheating or marketing at least... :-)

Ha! Good catch...actually, I meant it as two separate features: it has a pentaprism VF and it's larger. I guess it's larger because it's a pentaprism.

At any rate, this new Rebel XSi will be a great entry-level camera--no disagreement here.

01/24/2008 10:56:44 PM · #60
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by robs:
Apart from the fps & build/feel there seems to be no reason to get the 40D IMO.

Unless you don't want better weather sealing, a larger viewfinder, 1/8000s top shutter speed, ISO 3200, a Pentaprism viewfinder, a larger viewfinder, more cross type AF sensors, whew! ;-)


Second thumbwheel, top LCD, better build quality...
 01/25/2008 08:39:25 AM · #61
Seems like a damned good camera actually (the 450D). I see they added Face detection in there... i'm not a big fan of this, it seems like a tacked on gimmick for the kids to buy into.

The features list is very impressive though, and the price too at $800 is a realtive steal. I think it puts Canon in a very strong position in the entry level market. Still, i would like to see the ISO performance figures and read some more about this 'updated' AF thing they've created.

I don't think i'll make the switch to the 450D though, i'm waiting on the 5d replacement before I make any decisions, btu Canon is all quiet on that front.
 01/25/2008 08:45:27 AM · #62
Originally posted by sir_bazz:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by robs:
Apart from the fps & build/feel there seems to be no reason to get the 40D IMO.

Unless you don't want better weather sealing, a larger viewfinder, 1/8000s top shutter speed, ISO 3200, a Pentaprism viewfinder, a larger viewfinder, more cross type AF sensors, whew! ;-)


Second thumbwheel, top LCD, better build quality...


Buffer size and speed of recovery were big for me. (not to knock the Rebel, the feature set is great, and for $800)
With my 10D you could shoot 9 RAW then have to wait ... and wait ... and wait ... and maybe get an an additional shot after about 5 or 6 seconds. With the 40D you can keep firing away up to 17 RAW and then it's less than a second for the next shot.

Having not tried this new camera it's hard to say if the buffer size of 6 would suffice. For me I doubt it, since 9 on the 10D didn't cut it. For someone else, could be.
 01/25/2008 09:14:21 AM · #63
Originally posted by smurfguy:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'd like to see a 16MP 5D mk II with Digic III. The rest is fluff.

Well, assuming the photosites don't shrink, the camera is still FF, and Digic III implies 14-bit, then I agree with you. =)


Hmm? not quite catching that... going from 12mp to 16mp, but you hope the photosites don't shrink? hmm.
 01/25/2008 10:55:48 AM · #64
Originally posted by eschelar:
Hmm? not quite catching that... going from 12mp to 16mp, but you hope the photosites don't shrink? hmm.

I realized that after posting. But I hold to my base - maintaining the quality out of the new photosite. I assume technical advancements in the past few years would make this possible.

Still, I'm starting to have serious doubts as to whether we'll see a 5D replacement this season...
 01/25/2008 11:05:42 AM · #65
it's possible to go to a higher density sensor, without shrinking the photosites - because currently the active photo receptor isn't 100% of the area that it actually takes up. You could potentially shrink the non-active portion, getting effectively the same photosite area and quality, while packing more in to the same area. (think of it like plastic bottles, with the tops off. Pack them all in, pour water over the array of bottles, you'll only capture water from the open tops, it'll run off the edges of most of the bottles. Switch the bottle out for an equivalent diameter straight sided glass and you'll catch a whole lot more water, within the same area). Or, make a lot of smaller glasses, the same diameter as just the opening in the original bottle - pack them all together - same physical size at the outsides, much higher density of catchment)

Canon have on occasion produced patents for 100% coverage photosites, which involved fabricating the silicon, slicing it in half and then inverting it to embed the metal layers within the sensor, removing the non-active exposed regions. Will be quite a trick if they can work out how to actually turn that research proof of concept into a production fab though.

You can also shrink the proportion of inactive photosite by moving to a smaller fab technology - even though the actual photosite dimensions remains the same, the non-capturing logic regions can be smaller, or you could shrink the whole photosite cell, making the active photosite the same size as in the previous process, but take up less area for the entire photosite.

You can see examples of that here

Message edited by author 2008-01-25 11:15:46.
 01/25/2008 11:10:40 AM · #66
I have no idea what you just said, but it sounds cool.

But the 450D would make an immense first DSLR. And for those in the UK, the price is £599 for the body and £679 for the body + lens... if i were you, i'd get on to B&H and save £200 off our (sucky) retail.
 01/25/2008 12:59:53 PM · #67
The AF in live view is a big advantage over the implementation on the 1-series and the 40D. Any hope of a firmware upgrade to enable AF on the other cameras ? That would be nice. Just from a gimmick-lover's point of view.
 01/25/2008 01:52:45 PM · #68
Originally posted by Gordon:
it's possible to go to a higher density sensor without shrinking the photosites
I had thought that might be the case - making more efficient use of the sensor area - but didn't know for sure. Thanks for the explanation and link, Gordon.
 01/25/2008 05:47:12 PM · #69
I really can't understand the marketing on this one.
Although there are a lot of arguements to why the 40D is a better camera the 450 certainly sounds impressive (probably the most impressive jump that canon has made in the last few releases). And so soon after the release of the 40D! Not just the entry market (it probably has given canon the lead in this area) but there are also a lot of present 350/400 owners who are looking for an upgrade (and can't afford a 5D or above - therefore looking at the 40D)who are comfortable with the size/setout etc of the rebel range. It just strikes me as if canon is shoting itself in the foot somewhat. They get more sales at a cheaper price while their midrange gets overlooked (at a dearer price). I'm argueing marketing here not features or which is the better camera. If canon really wanted to give us what we wanted they would have certainly given us weathersealed bodies (I mean totally - not just the battery and card areas) - like Pentax have done in the last few releases. If Pentax can do it at a cheaper price surely a big company like canon can (and at a cheaper price).
 01/31/2008 06:33:07 AM · #70
Perhaps a successor to the 40D at PMA 08?
 01/31/2008 06:55:35 AM · #71
Originally posted by Hovan:
Perhaps a successor to the 40D at PMA 08?


quite unlikely IMO
 01/31/2008 07:08:20 AM · #72
It feels like literally only last month that the 40D was released - and I was really surprised then that they chose to upgrade the 30D relatively quickly.

40D/50D...400/450...who cares... I WANT FULL FRAME JOY! 5mkII/7D - HURRY UP CANON! :)

N

01/31/2008 07:38:32 AM · #73
Originally posted by smurfguy:
Originally posted by Gordon:
it's possible to go to a higher density sensor without shrinking the photosites
I had thought that might be the case - making more efficient use of the sensor area - but didn't know for sure. Thanks for the explanation and link, Gordon.


I thought that they were already close enough that changes that could be made to the spaces between the pixels were now small enough that it would make this quite difficult. As in current coverage was better than 85%. If you increased pixel density by 20%, and coverage was improved to 90% of the sensor surface, you'd still be losing. I guess I was wrong... on the other hand, I can't help but wonder if the marketing material on that webpage is slightly exaggerated in proportions. Essentially it makes no difference since the pixel pitches are the same with the 16mp FF sensor and the 21mp version.

my bad.
 01/31/2008 07:58:36 AM · #74
I would like to get the 450D as a back up to my 5D, they seem like they would make a loverly couple..
 01/31/2008 01:28:10 PM · #75
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
40D/50D...400/450...who cares... I WANT FULL FRAME JOY! 5mkII/7D - HURRY UP CANON! :)

Freakin' word. =D
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