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 01/23/2008 06:32:47 PM · #76
Originally posted by Simms:
Thanks for the support everyone who PM'd me, I am pretty sure that "Birds" challenge will be my last for a while (if I shoot something worthy of entering).

One thing to bear in mind, last years "Best of 2006" had over 700 entires, this years is below 500.. So maybe the site is starting to scare people away.. As some of those who have emailed me said, the `rant` (although it isnt a rant) sounds better coming from someone who has proved themselves over the past few months, stating that rulesets are getting a bit too hard to keep up with, than coming from someone who isn't doing so well in challenges and it coming across as more of a case of "sour grapes"..

I still think the site is a great place to be, but at the moment its not so hot for me and where I want to take my photography.

Does this make sense??


Mark,

I also feel a little of the DPC magic is wearing thin, I've really only entered the monthly free studies over the last year and the occasional other challenges except where I've forced myself by entering side challenges.
I'm not sure yet whether I'll even be entering the Free Study Marathon this year.

I guess its the 'challenge topics' which have not really inspired me I don't know, but I do know I agree with you Mark.

Lets hope the enthusiasm comes back soon.

01/23/2008 06:33:57 PM · #77
i'm bored with DPC to the maximum. that's why i bought new car :-)
 01/23/2008 06:38:35 PM · #78
I don't like the new Advanced Editing rules either. I almost feel there should be two separate sites. One for true photography and the other for digital imaging, photoshop, whatever you want to call it. I don't think it's a good idea to mesh the two together. There are some excellent images that are being posted, but I do think that they're images and not photographs. There's a difference.
 01/23/2008 06:44:54 PM · #79
I think what happens is that people when they first join are over zealous. This isn't a bad thing but you burn out if you dont slow down. I was more zealous than when I first joined a year ago but have slowed down a little now. I haven't slowed down due to anything DPC has or hasn't done but more because I have other committment in life and work. I would love to enter a challenge a week but often dont get the chance. Last week I had two great ideas for the children challenge and the framing challenge. I think the children shot would have done really well but I noticed some other ideas similar to mine in the framing challenge so it may have not done so well.

DPC should be a interest that makes you happy and not one that becomes a burden. If it is a burden you shouldn't be here or you are doing something wrong.

Relax, enjoy, enter when and where you can, learn something new, I know I have nearly every day or week. Scores are not serious as we all tend to be hard critics, but that is what makes us better photographers if we choose to take the criticisms on board and do something about them. I would love to win a ribbon but havent't come close until this month when I came 6th. So I keep happily plodding along.
 01/23/2008 06:46:25 PM · #80
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by biteme:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
No kidding. My jaw hit the floor when I saw this challenge. As a retired professional architectural photographer, I'm perhaps more aware than most how downright silly this is. The photography of architecture is one of the most technically demanding fields there is. HDRI imaging was tailor-made for this subject.

R.


Robert, can't you see this as a challenge? Photographing architecture without the HDR-stuff?


And without the ability to use perspective correction? Of course it's a challenge. The last architecture challenge was done in basic also. It's not a big deal, really it isn't. But "architecture" is a subject that cries out for advanced editing, even IF we didn't have HDRI, because of perspective issues. Hardly any of us have tilt/shift lenses (I certainly don't), so we need PS control over that aspect to "do it right"...

I suggest two exclusive challenges--both with the same topic, "Architecture", but one is Advanced editing and the other is Basic. The results between the two would be eye-opening!

01/23/2008 06:50:11 PM · #81
I haven't entered in 12months or renewed my membershp just stir it along in the forums
01/23/2008 06:57:41 PM · #82
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by biteme:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
No kidding. My jaw hit the floor when I saw this challenge. As a retired professional architectural photographer, I'm perhaps more aware than most how downright silly this is. The photography of architecture is one of the most technically demanding fields there is. HDRI imaging was tailor-made for this subject.

R.


Robert, can't you see this as a challenge? Photographing architecture without the HDR-stuff?


And without the ability to use perspective correction? Of course it's a challenge. The last architecture challenge was done in basic also. It's not a big deal, really it isn't. But "architecture" is a subject that cries out for advanced editing, even IF we didn't have HDRI, because of perspective issues. Hardly any of us have tilt/shift lenses (I certainly don't), so we need PS control over that aspect to "do it right"...

I suggest two exclusive challenges--both with the same topic, "Architecture", but one is Advanced editing and the other is Basic. The results between the two would be eye-opening!


You're not allowed to use 'lens correction' on basic?

Message edited by author 2008-01-23 18:58:08.
 01/23/2008 07:11:20 PM · #83
Originally posted by kolasi:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by biteme:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
No kidding. My jaw hit the floor when I saw this challenge. As a retired professional architectural photographer, I'm perhaps more aware than most how downright silly this is. The photography of architecture is one of the most technically demanding fields there is. HDRI imaging was tailor-made for this subject.

R.


Robert, can't you see this as a challenge? Photographing architecture without the HDR-stuff?


And without the ability to use perspective correction? Of course it's a challenge. The last architecture challenge was done in basic also. It's not a big deal, really it isn't. But "architecture" is a subject that cries out for advanced editing, even IF we didn't have HDRI, because of perspective issues. Hardly any of us have tilt/shift lenses (I certainly don't), so we need PS control over that aspect to "do it right"...

I suggest two exclusive challenges--both with the same topic, "Architecture", but one is Advanced editing and the other is Basic. The results between the two would be eye-opening!


You're not allowed to use 'lens correction' on basic?


nope.
 01/23/2008 07:19:52 PM · #84
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
And without the ability to use perspective correction? Of course it's a challenge. The last architecture challenge was done in basic also. It's not a big deal, really it isn't. But "architecture" is a subject that cries out for advanced editing, even IF we didn't have HDRI, because of perspective issues. Hardly any of us have tilt/shift lenses (I certainly don't), so we need PS control over that aspect to "do it right"...


Though there is also probably quite a difference in understanding between 'traditional architectural photography' and 'pictures of architecture or buildings'.

01/23/2008 08:09:45 PM · #85
I need to add my 2p here, because I'm one of the newer people to the site...presumably asking the same questions and making the same noises. Here's my observations:

- DPC doesn't seem to have evolved much in 6 years, specifically with regards to voting. Rulesets have changed but the essential process of voting hasn't. I can understand it but it doesn't take into account the evolution of the members submitting to the challenges. The standard has increased SIGNIFICANTLY since 03/04 - just look at the ribbons from that era compared to 06/07. Voting practice and expectation has increased. IMO the 'one vote fits all' and hoping for comments could do with splitting up...(think Ice Skating: artistic impression and technical merit scores). Something to indicate to the photographer more than just a single score.

- Challenge Recycling - the challenge format could do with an upgrade. There have been some really interesting challenges in the past (interpretative as well as factual) but they tend to get recycled, rather than pushing the envelope a bit and challenging the old timers (which are apparently getting bored). I'm only new to the site, but since I've actively started getting involved the challenges have been a bit samey. For example:

Alone in a Crowd, and then Object Contrast By Isolation: both very similar, although Object seemed to be interpreted as "shoot anything with any kind of contrast"...which wasn't a challenge (i.e too open) and very similar to a recent challenge.

It's okay to add some conditionality to challenges to make them more specific - it doesn't detract from artistic license and makes challenges actually challenging.

- High rollers - my 2p? so what - they're great! I'm happy to compete with pros and seasoned DPCers with full sets of L series lenses at f0.5. They set the bar high and there's nowhere else I could compete in such a personal and friendly way with these guys. And so they co-operatively critique submissions...it's hard to overrule friendships, and isn't this what it's about? Sharing and learning. All the big boys seem 100% approachable and really helpful with great advice and tips. Why alienate and bore them?

On a more personal level, Simms mate...you're one of the few UK photographers on here whose work I really rate. It's not all cheesy setup stuff and there's a load of shots I really admire. You don't have access to glaciers and blondes, or submit puppy shots or perfect studio reflections...and you represent what you see in beautiful ways. People like you are needed around here to give hope to people like me! (other London dwellers with lenses and unconventional eyes)

DPC rocks. With all the inherent issues it still rocks. There isn't a single person here who can say they're not a better photographer for having been here. Full stop. What's needed is a freshen up...DPC is 6 years old and whilst the 'if it's not broken don't fix it' adage is true, some evolution and growth could be what's needed to continue to challenge.

In the few months that I've been here I've personally become a better photographer (not that my scores would reflect it!) because I'm aware of so many more things that I should be doing. If nothing else I'm a darn sight better with photoshop. Oh, and this photoshop phobia? Get over it... or go back to using film or drawing on caves....image production technology and the 'consumer' eye is changing. Evolve or die, as a dinosaur once said with his last breath...

Best,

N

Message edited by author 2008-01-23 20:10:53.
 01/23/2008 08:15:41 PM · #86
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
I need to add my 2p here,...

Best,

N


You are alright brotha! Preach on!

:-D
 01/23/2008 08:24:46 PM · #87
I guess it happens to all of us from time to time. I know I haven't been overly active on here over the past few months and it's probably done me a lot of good. But I also look at what the site has given me over the past 4 years or so and what I have learned and that's why I keep popping in every now and then. The last week or two I have been on here a lot more so I'm sure the break did me good!

EDIT: Also, our business has been going great lately so we've been very busy with that and time has been very limited!

Message edited by author 2008-01-23 20:26:28.
 01/24/2008 03:19:46 PM · #88
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I have posted quite a bit on this subject in the green thread //www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=726361 I think we should have a vote on the issue of advanced editing and the new rule change. I don't believe that HDR imaging belongs in the advanced rules. I think advanced rules should be one photo. I do think that special challenges, like the occasional landscape challenge, or the recent river and streams challenge do lend themselves to HDR, and it could be used there as a special rule. I don't think it is fair to have HDR imaging in a Free Study, because it allows a select few to use ten photos, when everyone else can only use one. Thats ten times the megapixels to work with.

I think a vote is in order to see what most of us want in advanced editing.


Again, your argument has no basis. Is it fair that others who have professional studios get to enter? I don't have a professional studio, can we have a vote on that so they can't enter those shots? What about those who have access to beautiful landscapes like our fellow Icelanders??? I think we should vote to not allow any image from Iceland into challenges using the Advanced rule set, cuz it ain't fair man!

Your argument is just plain silly! Allowing multiple images for HDR gives you slightly better results than what could have already been achieved under the old rule set, so the fact that you are all up in arms over this minor change is quite comical.
 01/24/2008 05:04:56 PM · #89
I feel sort of the same as the OP. I hardly enter any challenges anymore, just dont seem to be that motivated to get up and go out and shoot for challenges. I still use my cameras but they are mostly for snapshots of my family rather than anything I myself would call photographs. I have other priorities in life these days and as a result of that I guess my passion for photography has been affected. Perhaps I need a kick up the backside! This site still has a lot to offer - especially to folks that are just taking up this wonderful hobby.
 01/24/2008 06:15:35 PM · #90
I don't think bored would be the term I'd use...
 01/24/2008 06:57:52 PM · #91
Sorry but to me... this isn't digital PHOTOGRAPHY contest anymore its digital PHOTOSHOP contests, and once someone figures out someone's photoshop style its easy for voters to vote up those photos...thinking well its popular.

The majority of the voters like the photoshop entries.... I for one dont... thats why I walked away and have only come back rarely to see whats new and if the photoshop interest has peaked. I think a lot of the old gang will be back then too.
01/24/2008 07:55:29 PM · #92
Originally posted by Di:
I think a lot of the old gang will be back then too.

Or participate more for those that have hung around.
 01/24/2008 07:56:44 PM · #93
No but thanks for asking

:P
 01/24/2008 08:01:09 PM · #94
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Hopefully you realized that was a sort of tongue-in-cheek comment I made?

Yeah, kinda sorta
;)
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Anyway, I've BEEN THERE with you, and my firsthand experience is that you're sort of the opposite of a consumer-culture guy :-)

Thanks
(I think)
 01/24/2008 08:03:01 PM · #95
Well, from the moment photographs are voted by users, the winning photos will, usually, be trendy and jazzy and have pop etc.

Imagine if the the Oscars were judged the same way American Idol is. Do you think "Philadelphia" or "Beautiful Mind" would win? or would "Men in Black" or "Amaerican Pie" win?

Most people are not going to sit down during the 'alone in a crowd' challenge and look at a photo and think "Oh wow, look how the out of focus face expresses the general feel of being isolated and alone". Many will leave a comment 'oof' and give it a 3 or 4.

My point is that, unless we have a panel of experts judging the photos, we are going to have photos that have mass appeal, and not necessarily artistic merit.

So, either shoot for what people will like, or shoot for your self and not score high, but gain some insightful comments from likeminded peers.

This is not meant to attack high scoring photos, I am sure that they take those photos because that is what they like to shoot!
 01/24/2008 08:05:10 PM · #96
Originally posted by kolasi:
....Most people are not going to sit down during the 'alone in a crowd' challenge and look at a photo and think "Oh wow, look how the out of focus face expresses the general feel of being isolated and alone". Many will leave a comment 'oof' and give it a 3 or 4....


Sadly, this is true. Often, people are so blinded by the rules they have no idea when or how to "break" them.
 01/24/2008 08:07:01 PM · #97
Originally posted by Brad:
Originally posted by Di:
I think a lot of the old gang will be back then too.

Or participate more for those that have hung around.
agreed
 01/24/2008 08:30:08 PM · #98
.

Message edited by author 2008-01-24 20:31:23.
 01/24/2008 08:57:29 PM · #99
I do have to admit that I'm a little intimidated by the slow move to photoshoped images dominating the advanced challenges. My skills in that area are not high but I keep trying. I find it interesting that my highest scoring photo was in one of the few Minimal challenges. And I didn't even think it was that great!

I have gotten a little bored now that I'm working on the end of my forth year here. I enter far fewer challenges but still to many as I sometimes still enter to enter. This year I have decided that I will concentrate on the monthly Free Study challenges to try and boost my photshop skills as it takes a little sparkle to get noticed. We'll see if that lasts, LOL.

Anyway, I hear you Mark and hope you come back as I love your photography.
 01/24/2008 09:08:18 PM · #100
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by kolasi:
....Most people are not going to sit down during the 'alone in a crowd' challenge and look at a photo and think "Oh wow, look how the out of focus face expresses the general feel of being isolated and alone". Many will leave a comment 'oof' and give it a 3 or 4....


Sadly, this is true. Often, people are so blinded by the rules they have no idea when or how to "break" them.


Or how to act when they see them....

DPC or any other site for that matter will ever be more than pop art. Why? Because pop art is easy to grasp. I'd be willing even if we had an Avant Garde challenge, poppish images would still rank up top.

Is the voting system broken? No, it's not. It's a popular voting model and will surface images that cater to the Lowest Common Denominator. There is no fix for that.

A photograph is usually looked at - seldom looked into. ~Ansel Adams ... I think he must have gotten a 5.* score

-------

Now, I'd like to say that DPC has gone off the deep end with the politically correct bullshit as of late. It has become the domain of the offended and trying to protect them from their own sensitivities has made the site stagnant and uninteresting for the most part.

A place where you have to post a link of a flagged nude image inside a flagged post inside a flagged thread is going a bit too far.

Message edited by author 2008-01-24 21:11:34.
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