someone else's image in self portrait, is it ok?

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

12/12/2007 04:14:19 PM · #105

Originally posted by posthumous:

It not a case of forming our own DPC, the thing is Don, back in the early days of DPC, when the weekly challenge was announced (oh yes, we only had one challenge a week), people went out with their Point and Shoot cameras (only the wealthy had DSLRs back then) and shot specifically for the challenge. It was a great time, you knew you would start voting and had a good chance that 95% of the shots would be a great interpretation of the challenge, shot with the challenge topic in mind. Thats what I mean when I say the spirit of the site isn't the same.. and its not. There was a discussion a while back on why weren't people voting anymore, my theory? People get annoyed at voting on a challenge and having to trawl through a bric-a-brac mish-mash of shots just thrown in at the last minute with a title that links it (tenuously) to the challenge. it gets tedious. so people don't vote..

I wouldn't expect you to understand though as you wasn't about back in those heady days.

Mike_Adams

Canon EOS-40D

12/12/2007 04:20:35 PM · #106

Wow what a thread.

I guess it partly depends on what you are here for. Maybe because I am less than 6 months into my membership I am just new and green, but currently I am here to learn, grow, and be challenged. If I were here to "Just Win Baby", I would have picked a site with much less talent. No one wants to see "cheaters prosper" but clearly we don't know much of anything at this point. In 5 years will the fact that you should have been 12 and were instead 13th matter? (This is hypothetical I have no idea who was 13th or 12th). In the end this site is many things to many people. Should I hate Larus because he lives in a beautiful place and can capture images of fantastic places I probably will never get to shoot. Should I hate Larus because he has a plethora of gorgeous women with electric blue eyes all begging to be photographed? No, he takes fantastic images. We know nothing about this guy. Early in the thread we were ready to string up the twins! Realize we don't know everything, and even if we did are we so irreparably damaged by this image and its ranking that it removes the value from our own shot? I hope not. If I did this just for pretty little blue ribbons I might never get to my goal.

Really, if (THIS IS A TOTAL IF I HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS IS THE CASE) it was a completely calculated attempt to defraud the challenge and make a fantastic photograph who is it irreparably damaging? Vote your conscience. If you gave it a 1 or a 10 good for you. Send the user you think got hosed a PM telling them how wonderful their image is. In the end that may mean much more than the difference between 12 and 13.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

12/12/2007 04:23:42 PM · #107

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
As for those suggesting a special DQ rule for this challenge in the future I wonder how it would be validated? Submit a photo of yourself? :-P

Good point. Frankly, I think this is just one of those cases where we are making a big deal out of something pretty insignificant. I don't believe at all it is indicative of the site or the "declining spirit of the site" - I think threads like these themselves would be more indicative of that, but I don't believe they are in any way representative either. Much ado about nothing.

Yeah, easy for me to say as one with no horse in that race - so take it for what it's worth. :)

LOL, Let's go burn some villages Art! I'm itching to do so. :)

bauerfan71

Canon EOS-50D

12/12/2007 04:28:51 PM · #108

I think some people need to be mindful of the fact that not all people want to do a literal interpretation of the one line sentence describing the challenge. If that were the case, all of the pics would be so similar, who would even bother.

I aim for "realistically creative" in my interpretation. I don't want to be dead-on literal, but the viewer should be able to think for a moment, and say "not what I might have done... but I can see how someone else might think that way..."

Isn't creativity one of the most important factors here? I like that this site really makes me think about what I'm doing.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/12/2007 04:29:19 PM · #109

Originally posted by Mike_Adams:

.....Should I hate Larus because he lives in a beautiful place and can capture images of fantastic places I probably will never get to shoot. Should I hate Larus because he has a plethora of gorgeous women with electric blue eyes all begging to be photographed?...

LOL! YES! YES! I hate

Larus for all these reasons! ;) :D

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

12/12/2007 04:31:46 PM · #110

Originally posted by doctornick:

LOL, Let's go burn some villages Art! I'm itching to do so. :)

Easy there, Doc! We don't want to strain international relationships any further. :) Besides, I am on hiatus during the holiday season. :D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

12/12/2007 04:34:09 PM · #111

Originally posted by bauerfan71:

The problem here is that some people are so arrogant that they think that they are the SOLE possessor of THE TRUTH (whatever that is) and want it imposed on everybody else.

Mike_Adams

Canon EOS-40D

12/12/2007 04:34:10 PM · #112

LOL :) Jealous, YES hate him?? NO. A wise man once said don't hate the playa hate the game :)

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

12/12/2007 04:35:56 PM · #113

Originally posted by Mike_Adams:

LOL :) Jealous, YES hate him?? NO. A wise man once said don't hate the playa hate the game :)

I refuse to admit to that! ;) :D And am sticking to my story.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

12/12/2007 04:43:45 PM · #114

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by eyewave:
I surely am not the only one (to be honest, I know it) that was quite sure it was no self portrait and thus voted it lower or didn't vote at all.

How could you be sure, except through a prejudice? Maybe you and Simms could form your own DPC with its own spirit. I promise not to haunt it.

It not a case of forming our own DPC, the thing is Don, back in the early days of DPC, when the weekly challenge was announced (oh yes, we only had one challenge a week), people went out with their Point and Shoot cameras (only the wealthy had DSLRs back then) and shot specifically for the challenge. It was a great time, you knew you would start voting and had a good chance that 95% of the shots would be a great interpretation of the challenge, shot with the challenge topic in mind. Thats what I mean when I say the spirit of the site isn't the same.. and its not. There was a discussion a while back on why weren't people voting anymore, my theory? People get annoyed at voting on a challenge and having to trawl through a bric-a-brac mish-mash of shots just thrown in at the last minute with a title that links it (tenuously) to the challenge. it gets tedious. so people don't vote..

I wouldn't expect you to understand though as you wasn't about back in those heady days.

I was here in those heady days. And, I respectfully disagree. Shoehorning is not new, or even more prevalent "these days." I think, as I stated earlier, that it is about the same or perhaps even less. And, I haven't voted as much as

alanfreed but with over 36,000 votes under my belt, I think I've seen enough of the pictures to have a general idea.

I suspect it is one of those things of "if you look for it, you will see it." If you go into a challenge (as a voter/viewer) with the assumption that all the shots meet the challenge, then I think it is less likely to see a shot that doesn't "fit." At the very least, with that underlying premise, it makes you stop and think before automatically assuming it is dnmc.

eta: What I *might* concede (I'm going to look at it more in a bit) is that the shoehorns are of a better quality now, than "then." It used to be that someone just took a shot and squeezed it in regardless of quality -- just so they could be in the challenge (which, I might add, has also been complained about). NOW, it seems like someone takes a good shot and squeezes it in, because it is a good shot.

Message edited by author 2007-12-12 16:47:39.

12/12/2007 04:48:10 PM · #115

Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by Simms:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by eyewave:
I surely am not the only one (to be honest, I know it) that was quite sure it was no self portrait and thus voted it lower or didn't vote at all.

How could you be sure, except through a prejudice? Maybe you and Simms could form your own DPC with its own spirit. I promise not to haunt it.

It not a case of forming our own DPC, the thing is Don, back in the early days of DPC, when the weekly challenge was announced (oh yes, we only had one challenge a week), people went out with their Point and Shoot cameras (only the wealthy had DSLRs back then) and shot specifically for the challenge. It was a great time, you knew you would start voting and had a good chance that 95% of the shots would be a great interpretation of the challenge, shot with the challenge topic in mind. Thats what I mean when I say the spirit of the site isn't the same.. and its not. There was a discussion a while back on why weren't people voting anymore, my theory? People get annoyed at voting on a challenge and having to trawl through a bric-a-brac mish-mash of shots just thrown in at the last minute with a title that links it (tenuously) to the challenge. it gets tedious. so people don't vote..

I wouldn't expect you to understand though as you wasn't about back in those heady days.

I was here in those heady days. And, I respectfully disagree. Shoehorning is not new, or even more prevalent "these days." I think, as I stated earlier, that it is about the same or perhaps even less. And, I haven't voted as much as alanfreed but with over 36,000 votes under my belt, I think I've seen enough of the pictures to have a general idea.

I suspect it is one of those things of "if you look for it, you will see it." If you go into a challenge (as a voter/viewer) with the assumption that all the shots meet the challenge, then I think it is less likely to see a shot that doesn't "fit." At the very least, with that underlying premise, it makes you stop and think before automatically assuming it is dnmc.

Absolutely agree with you! And to quote Abraham Lincoln: "When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will."

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/12/2007 05:10:31 PM · #116

Originally posted by Mike_Adams:

See if you feel the same the day you come 4th and the shoehorned 3rd place is on that frontpage.. openly you would be "good shot", in your head you would be thinking "shoehorning f**ker"... I know I would.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

12/12/2007 05:21:10 PM · #117

Originally posted by Simms:

Happened to me a few weeks ago. I've managed to get over it by now.

Citadel

Nikon D7500

12/12/2007 05:25:33 PM · #118

For me I'd say yes the picture of the man DNMC. Does that mean DQ? No. However, I think for future self-portraits that it should be explicitly stated that the shot needs to be a self-portrait or be DQ'd. I think all of us would agree that trying to get a perfect portait shot of yourself is considerably different than trying to get a shot of someone else.

The reason I say that the shot should be DQ'd is because normally if a shot DNMC challenge the voters have the option to vote it down. For self-portait? While we might know the faces of a lot of people on this site we can't be expected to know them all and there is no way to tell during voting if a shot truly is a self-portrait or not.

I know we have debated DQing DNMC entries a lot in the past but I think this particular challenge is different for the reason stated above.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

12/12/2007 05:30:13 PM · #119

For those wanting

tigmo's shot DQed or think it's not in the spirit of the rules, what about all the non-creative shots that were entered? The challenge description said, "Take your best self portrait and be creative!" Since far more failed on the latter maybe we shouldn't be so concern about the one who may have failed the former.

12/12/2007 05:32:21 PM · #120

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by Simms:
See if you feel the same the day you come 4th and the shoehorned 3rd place is on that frontpage.. openly you would be "good shot", in your head you would be thinking "shoehorning f**ker"... I know I would.

Happened to me a few weeks ago.

Well, 7 months ago.

Originally posted by Gordon:

I've managed to get over it by now.

After 7 months one would hope so!

I was actually talking to Mike, the guy without a ribbon? I am sure we all get over it, but annoying, especially if you was a gnats dick away from your first ribbon.. cast your mind back to when you won your first ribbon (I see by your profile you have quite a crop of ribbons), you know how much it meant to win it back then. So, now repeat my question to the guy/gal with no ribbons.. how would they feel, if a shot they really thought would ribbon missed out by a few points to a shot shoehorned into the challenge on account of it being a good shot but not really related to the challenge. It would suck and you would feel robbed by the person not abiding to the spirit of the challenge.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

12/12/2007 05:38:39 PM · #121

Originally posted by Gordon:

No kidding. Getting beat by a shoehorn is as common as the sun rising. That's not even what is in style any more. Copies are and copies of a copy that are shoehorned more so. :P

Leica 18-56mm f/3.5-5.6 Vario Elmar-T ASPH

12/12/2007 05:38:44 PM · #122

Originally posted by Citadel:

The reason I say that the shot should be DQ'd is because normally if a shot DNMC challenge the voters have the option to vote it down. For self-portait? While we might know the faces of a lot of people on this site we can't be expected to know them all and there is no way to tell during voting if a shot truly is a self-portrait or not.

I know we have debated DQing DNMC entries a lot in the past but I think this particular challenge is different for the reason stated above.

IIRC there have been some challenges where the rules state that conditions XYZ must be met or the shot will be DQ'd. Cant see why it would be such a hard thing to enforce.. Taking into account the SP challenge, if people still entered shots that were not of themselves, then it shows they are not here, to learn, have fun and win a few ribbons. But to cheat others out of a good, wholesome experience.

Just found one of the challenges with explicit rules on what must be accomplished or else it would be DQ'd.

Vanish Challenge

MAK

Leica M Monochrom

12/12/2007 05:48:15 PM · #123

Self portrait should be of yourself taken by yourself no exceptions.. how easy is it to shoot someone else?

the only squeeze the bloke gets is if he did not understand the language but even then, this is an english language based site so he had to read the rules and understand them to join.. Im not saying drag the guy out into the streets and execute him but, I do think in THIS CASE entering a photo of someone else is not really fair and in good spirits BUT, we still do not know 100% that the man in the photo is not the member himself sooo....

I think the self portrait should be of one's self .. simple.

yanko