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12/08/2007 06:38:33 PM · #26 |
Roz, my new lens has arrived, Canon EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM and I am just shakeing is disbelief to finally have it in my habds. It isn't any heaver than I expected, and quite comfortble,
I remember that you said, that you hold your macro lens in you hands when taking macro images as you like to get up close. I do believe that using a tripod really does make a differance to the sharpness and quality of macro photography, so keep that in mund....
You will just have to move up here, so you can use my lew lens..... I would not share it with anyone but you..... I am going to try it out later today, as I have some painting to do this morning, to finish off a large santa for our Xmas light house display.
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12/08/2007 06:42:44 PM · #27 |
Hi Sherpet,
Congratulations on the new lens.
Are you selling the 60mm then?
Not for me (I have this lens) but I had someone mention an interest in one so thought I could let them know if you were selling yours. If so, how much you chasing?
Cheer |
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12/08/2007 06:50:50 PM · #28 |
 Bear_Music suggested I KEEP the 60mm for habd held up close mactos, so this is what I am going to do for now, until I see how I handle both lenses.
I think I may make a mistake to sell it yet, but I could do so later down the track..... It has always taken some great images for me, so will just wait and see.....
Originally posted by RamblinR:
Hi Sherpet,
Congratulations on the new lens.
Are you selling the 60mm then?
Not for me (I have this lens) but I had someone mention an interest in one so thought I could let them know if you were selling yours. If so, how much you chasing?
Cheer |
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12/08/2007 07:45:48 PM · #29 |
Roz I personally think unless you need the working distance the issue is that you dont have full grasp on how to use the canon. While I am likely not the best example of what this lens can do here are a few from when I owned the 100MM canon. I'd spend some time understanding the lens and what it takes to make it work.
  
Here are a few links to some of my online galleries with it.
Macro1
Macro2
MattO
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12/08/2007 07:47:38 PM · #30 |
hey Roz, I know nothing about macro but I do know about Quality Camera in Perth.. I have bought from them numerous times. They are fantasic to buy from (are a bit more expensive than others)... also look at DD photographics in Sydney.. i have bought from them 3 times too, they are just as good and are cheaper.
Lisa |
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12/08/2007 07:50:24 PM · #31 |
hey shez  sherpet.. CONGRATULAIONS .. !!!!.. lucky you use a tripod or your excitement might ruin the possibility of getting that awesome shez photograph .. :)
thank you for the offer to 'share' your new lens .. after xmas i'm really hoping to come up and visit ...
its extension rings for me at the moment and then i was seriously considering the one you have recently acquired might have been the way to go .. (your husband is a totally wonderful man aiding and abetting your increasing 'enthusiasm' for photography .. lol .. )
but now that david dwterry mentioned the Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 that looks even better .. robert Bear_Music was saying its very expensive but it seems cheaper than your new 180mm ?? ..
also its a lot smaller which is something that appeals to me ..
the flash method that Spazmo99 suggested might also be the way to go to up the fstop to f8 say .. but of course you may only get one shot coz it would probably scare the insect away ..
i just went for a walk and was seriously considering the freezing method .. as long as the insect is ok i wouldnt hesitate .. gotta catch them first .. !!
ok EXTENSION RINGS ...
where can i get one ..??
do they come in different 'sizes' ..??
would an extension ring boost my 100mm to a 105 or even more depending on the ring ..??
please educate an ignoramous !!!
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12/08/2007 08:11:48 PM · #32 |
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12/08/2007 08:23:09 PM · #33 |
Roz I didnt use a tripod all of my shots are handheld. Most of my shots are f8 to f13 higher ISO and on some I used a macro ring flash which helps keep the shutter speed back up there when stopping down the lens. I did use autofocus.
One thing to remember about the MPE65 lens is that its a fulltime manual focus lens. It does go to 5:1 magnification, but it also requires alot of light to get there.
MattO |
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12/08/2007 08:49:48 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Roz I didnt use a tripod all of my shots are handheld. Most of my shots are f8 to f13 higher ISO and on some I used a macro ring flash which helps keep the shutter speed back up there when stopping down the lens. I did use autofocus.
One thing to remember about the MPE65 lens is that its a fulltime manual focus lens. It does go to 5:1 magnification, but it also requires alot of light to get there.
MattO |
well the MPE65 is out .. i do like to use auto focus on insects .. and light is often not my friend ..
i've heard of the macro ring flash but know nothing about them .. are they noisy? .. it could be the answer to my problem which seems to be getting to f8 at least & therefore a less shallow depth of field, and still maintaining a fast enough shutter speed ..
so my next question is ..
can anyone suggest a ring flash for my canon 100mm ..
how much are they ??
they'd probably be available at the place lisa suggested or photobuff which is where i got my canon 100mm .. its an australian place in melbourne so i dont think ppl overseas would be interested ..
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12/08/2007 09:08:35 PM · #35 |
Hey Roz, I would keep that Macro you have, as I love mine. I too was having a hard time getting some of the finer detail in some insects and then started increasing my apature. I will say that a longer reach would be nice but for the money I'll keep what I got. I took this housefly on a lemonhead candy last month, with the canon 100 2.8, and got the detail I had been looking for. Has for revering a lens infront, you will have an extremely narrow DOF even when stopped way down. Using a tripod is ideal but honestly, when working with moving things it's not so easy. I usually crank the ISO and try to brace myself as much as possible. hope this helps.
These are both extreme crops but the detail is there.
As for a ringflash, the canon is around $500 US I believe with the sigma and others being about $80-$100 cheaper. I would love one but keep spending my money on lenses.
Message edited by author 2007-12-08 21:10:33. |
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12/08/2007 09:13:37 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by roz:
well the MPE65 is out .. i do like to use auto focus on insects .. and light is often not my friend .. |
You're sort of contradicting yourself... Your basic complaint was the inability to get those tack=sharp extreme closeups, and then you say you want to autofocus? That's a recipe for disaster, unless maybe you have one of those nifty Canon 1Ds with the 45 autofocus points, and even THEN having to shift to the correct autofocus point will take you too long, the insect will move.
You can't use the "focus/lock/reframe technique doing macros, because the act of reframing, at such extremely close distances, will shift your previous focal point out of the plane of focus. Almost guaranteed. In fact, if you HAVE been autfocusing this may be the biggest source of your problems with sharpness, apart from trying to handhold, which is really tough when shooting 1:1 macros.
I don't know ANYBODY who I've ever seen shoot in person, who doesn't manually focus macros. As far as I'm concerned, the only reason they even HAVE the USM and autofocus on the macro lenses is because people like to use them at normal shooting distances also. The 65mm, on the other hand, can't even be USED at normal distances, so it is strictly for macro work and it has no autofocus at all.
The "normal" way to shoot macros is to determine what reproduction ratio you want, set that in MF by the scale, then move the camera in and out until your zone of focus is achieved.
The BEST way to shoot macros is with a tripod and a "focusing rail" (google it) that allows you to shift the camera back and forth, and even better (on the good models) left to right.
R.
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12/08/2007 09:21:53 PM · #37 |
| Bear makes a great point about focusing. I learned, from this site, that you set it to manuel focus, set it at it's closest focing distance and then move to your subject. You will have a much better hit/miss mark on your macros. I don't think the AF has been switched on my canon 100 in about a year. |
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12/08/2007 09:26:26 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by roz:
well the MPE65 is out .. i do like to use auto focus on insects .. and light is often not my friend .. |
You're sort of contradicting yourself... Your basic complaint was the inability to get those tack=sharp extreme closeups, and then you say you want to autofocus? That's a recipe for disaster, unless maybe you have one of those nifty Canon 1Ds with the 45 autofocus points, and even THEN having to shift to the correct autofocus point will take you too long, the insect will move.
You can't use the "focus/lock/reframe technique doing macros, because the act of reframing, at such extremely close distances, will shift your previous focal point out of the plane of focus. Almost guaranteed. In fact, if you HAVE been autfocusing this may be the biggest source of your problems with sharpness, apart from trying to handhold, which is really tough when shooting 1:1 macros.
I don't know ANYBODY who I've ever seen shoot in person, who doesn't manually focus macros. As far as I'm concerned, the only reason they even HAVE the USM and autofocus on the macro lenses is because people like to use them at normal shooting distances also. The 65mm, on the other hand, can't even be USED at normal distances, so it is strictly for macro work and it has no autofocus at all.
The "normal" way to shoot macros is to determine what reproduction ratio you want, set that in MF by the scale, then move the camera in and out until your zone of focus is achieved.
The BEST way to shoot macros is with a tripod and a "focusing rail" (google it) that allows you to shift the camera back and forth, and even better (on the good models) left to right.
R. |
thanks robert ..
matt was saying he didnt use a tripod .. i dont know how anyone would use a tripod in nature on a rough firetrail and with a subject that would move as soon as you tried to set it up ..
but .. i do try an manually focus and move back and forward toward the subject .. but of course movement also makes them flighty ..
i asked earlier about whether the macro ring flash was noisy, but i thought about it afterwards and i'm not sure than noise is an issue as much as movement .. ??:)
there's a storm coming and i have to close down.. :)
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12/08/2007 09:54:32 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by roz:
matt was saying he didnt use a tripod .. i dont know how anyone would use a tripod in nature on a rough firetrail and with a subject that would move as soon as you tried to set it up ..
but .. i do try an manually focus and move back and forward toward the subject .. but of course movement also makes them flighty ..
i asked earlier about whether the macro ring flash was noisy, but i thought about it afterwards and i'm not sure than noise is an issue as much as movement .. ??:) |
Even if you DO have to handhold your nature macros (and I do it all the time with reasonable success) the preset focus/move camera in and out technique will give you a much higher level of acceptably sharp images.
Let's look at WHY:
1. At 1:1 macro with a reasonable aperture you are looking at fractions of a centimeter in DOF. This means ANY shift of your camera towards or away from your subject will likely cause the area on which you are focusing to drop behind or rise above the focal plane.
2. Any time you are handholding a camera, it is VERY difficult to fix it into a certain position and then absolutely freeze it there. If you are using autofocus, you have to freeze it long enough for the lens to seek and find its focus and then you have to push the shutter. That's an appreciable lag, and your camera is GOING to move a fraction during that period of time.
3. If you are manually focusing and handholding at the same time, you have TWO components of movement; the camera itself is moving around, and while it is doing that you are also twisting the focus ring back and forth, which inevitably leads to small increments of lateral movement. Also, at macro distances, the actual framing of the image changes noticeably as you move the focal point back and forth.
4. So the solution is to prefocus in manual mode to a predetermined reproduction ratio, then cradle the camera gen tly, breathe in, breathe out, and while breathing out smoothly move the camera in towards the subject until focus is obtained in the viewfinder and, as that happens, gently fire off the exposure at the end of the exhale. Even better, run the camera in burst mode and fire off several shots with one press of the shutter button.
That's the way I do it anyway :-) And I shoot a LOT of macros handheld at f/2.8 or f/4 because I do a lot of flower macros and leaf macros, and the extremely shallow DOF is my friend there.
R.
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12/08/2007 10:02:33 PM · #40 |
| COULD TRY A MONOPOD QUICK AND EASY TO USE NOT AS STABLE AS A TRYPOD BUT A HELP |
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12/08/2007 10:11:16 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by rider:
COULD TRY A MONOPOD QUICK AND EASY TO USE NOT AS STABLE AS A TRYPOD BUT A HELP |
Yes, they can be useful in macro work in nature. They certainly reduce the camera movement by making it easier to find a point of equilibrium. The drawback to a monopod, however, is that moving the camera in and out involves tilting the monopod or repositioning it. Basically, it moves the POV of the camera up and down no matter how you use it, whereas when handholding you can locate a "tunnel" through the foreground objects and move in and out on that axis, which is often a good idea.
The focusing rail, incidentally, works that way also.
But for a lot of more open compositions, the monopod can be handy; especially if it is topped with a ballhead that's left loose so the camera can rotate/swing freely as you move into position.
R.
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12/09/2007 12:11:21 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
4. So the solution is to prefocus in manual mode to a predetermined reproduction ratio, then cradle the camera gen tly, breathe in, breathe out, and while breathing out smoothly move the camera in towards the subject until focus is obtained in the viewfinder and, as that happens, gently fire off the exposure at the end of the exhale. Even better, run the camera in burst mode and fire off several shots with one press of the shutter button.
That's the way I do it anyway :-) And I shoot a LOT of macros handheld at f/2.8 or f/4 because I do a lot of flower macros and leaf macros, and the extremely shallow DOF is my friend there.
R. |
the storm has passed now .. it was very dramatic .. we have these types of thunder/lightening storms here a lot, especially in the afternoon in this season .. summer .. i pull the computer power leads and phones out of the wall sockets or take a terrible risk ..
anyway robert ..
thankyou for your information its very helpful ..
i do use the tripod sometimes for my close-ups of flowers especially when i'm at home and not on the firetrail .. of course it gives so much more latitude with your camera settings ... which is sort'v wot i'm wanting without the tripod for insects in their natural surroundings ..
& re the manual/auto focus thing ..
yes the auto focus is great when you're not shooting macro ..
but with macro i've tried so much to do it on manual focus .. trying to move smoothly, but as you say the tiniest movement puts out the focus considerably .. also just the act of pushing that shutter button creates movement .. i do shoot burst, coz there's no other way to get that eye in focus, for eg, because of those tiny movements of the camera .. at least one out of five might actually have the focus in exactly the right place .. if i'm lucky !!!
i'll be trying to practice manual focus on my macro shots to see how i go ... but i'll still have the problem of depth of field .. (increasing the depth of field will automatically give me more focus on more areas of the insect) .. so i'm needing more light to keep my shutter speed fast enough ..
am i too close to the subject for the camera's flash to register at .31m away .. ie possibly needing the macro ring flash ??
charles suggestion of the monopod seems like a good suggestion taking into account the tilt like robert said ... i know shez uses one and has great success with it .. i'm not sure that she uses it for this sort'v thing tho .. :)
and thanks trevor trevytrev more incredibly useful info .. those flies are amazing ..
i dont think i'll be looking to get another lens just yet, just learning more about the one i've already got .. !!!
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12/09/2007 12:26:05 AM · #43 |
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12/09/2007 01:10:45 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Here's a ring flash |
thanks leroy ..
"A great value all-round Macro Ring Flash designed by Marumi Japan that supports TTL on Canon EOS bodies."
nowhere does it tell me wot TTL stands for .. of course when you tell me i'll kick myself .. lol ..
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12/09/2007 01:19:38 AM · #45 |
TTL = Through The Lens automatic flash metering.
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12/09/2007 01:21:07 AM · #46 |
| TTL means "Through The Lens" The definition per Photonotes.org is Through the lens. Any metering system - ambient exposure metering or flash metering - which works through the lens. Such systems require sensors built into the camera bodies with beam splitters transferring incoming light to the sensor systems. |
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12/09/2007 01:30:09 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
TTL means "Through The Lens" The definition per Photonotes.org is Through the lens. Any metering system - ambient exposure metering or flash metering - which works through the lens. Such systems require sensors built into the camera bodies with beam splitters transferring incoming light to the sensor systems. |
thank you ..
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12/09/2007 01:35:07 AM · #48 |
Hi Roz,
I have just caught up on the latest with this thread.
Yes, I do think a monopod may help you, as I use it as a walking stick with my camera attched, over rough terrain, like sand, uneven ground and hills.
I think it would be very suitable for you while on the fire trail, and see if you can borrow one from someone before buying one.
If you can't I can send you mine, in the mail for you to try.....
I am so excited as I have spent the last three hours outside taking photos, with my new lens, the Canon 180mm macro.....
Yes, I will post some images later, but the clarity and the macnification is just brilliant.....
I was totally amazed by being so far away, just how closa one can get to the subject..... It has amazed me everytime I looked through the lens. I am going to LOVE this baby.....
Message edited by author 2007-12-09 01:48:18.
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12/09/2007 01:44:11 AM · #49 |
this is a copy from the site leroy gave me for the ring flash
2. Semi-Automatic and Manual TTL Macro Flash shooting
AV Aperture Priority Mode
This mode allows user to manual set aperture value while shutter speed will be automatically controlled by camera based on the combination of shutter speed and aperture value.
firstly i find that explanation a bit confusing .. basically are they saying, in a complicated way, that the shutter speed depends on your aperture setting ?? ..
i have very little knowledge about flash photography .. i've set the intensity of the inboard flash on my 400D so that it isnt too bright, and i'm not even sure i've done it right ..
but i thought that all flash photography was at 1/60 sec .. like when the flash goes off and the shutter at the same time, it only needs 1/60 second .. like a window of time when the flash is firing ..
when i write that i'm thinking of some extremely fast moving objects like a bird's wing moving in flight, and how would you capture that if your shutter speed was only 1/60 sec .. ??
this might be a difficult one to explain ..
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12/09/2007 01:45:13 AM · #50 |
| Congrats on that new lens sherpet, look foward to seeing some of those shots! |
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