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11/29/2007 01:28:38 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I would never say a Catholic is not Christian. |
I call BS!
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian.
sexual abuse by priests, Catholic, not Christian. |
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11/29/2007 01:29:04 PM · #102 |
Johan, have a look at the most recent post here, there is a TV program being made in the UK about people in a similar situation. As an aside, its also interesting to read others accounts in 'converts corner'.
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11/29/2007 01:30:30 PM · #103 |
Personality and Individual Differences
Volume 34, Issue 8, June 2003, Pages 1337-1382
Born gay? The psychobiology of human sexual orientation
Qazi RahmanCorresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author and Glenn D. Wilson
Department of Psychology, Institute of Psychiatry, University of London, De Crespigny Park, London SE5 8AF, UK
Received 26 November 2001; revised 1 April 2002; accepted 27 April 2002. ; Available online 9 June 2002.
Abstract
Sexual orientation is fundamental to evolution and shifts from the species-typical pattern of heterosexuality may represent biological variations. The growth of scientific knowledge concerning the biology of sexual orientation during the past decade has been considerable. Sexual orientation is characterised by a bipolar distribution and is related to fraternal birth order in males. In females, its distribution is more variable; females being less prone towards exclusive homosexuality. In both sexes homosexuality is strongly associated with childhood gender nonconformity. Genetic evidence suggests a heritable component and putative gene loci on the X chromosome. Homosexuality may have evolved to promote same sex affiliation through a conserved neurodevelopmental mechanism. Recent findings suggest this mechanism involves atypical neurohormonal differentiation of the brain. Key areas for future research include the neurobiological basis of preferred sexual targets and correlates of female homosexuality.
Homosexuality
Scott Hershberger
Calfornia State University, Long Beach, USA
Available online 2003.
Evidence for Neurohormonal Etiology
A neurohormonal etiology of homosexuality is based on the reasoning that homosexuality (and sexual orientation in general) depends on the early sexual differentiation of hypothalamic brain structures. The differentiation of these brain structures depends on prenatal androgen action. Masculinization of brain structures occurs because of relatively high levels of androgens, whereas feminization of brain structures occurs in the absence of sufficient levels of androgens. Therefore, homosexual men and heterosexual women have neural sexual orientation centers that are similar to each other and different from those of heterosexual men and homosexual women. Two broad areas of research support a neurohormonal etiology. In the first area, numerous studies have been conducted examining the effects of prenatal patterns of sex steroid secretion on the development of sexually dimorphic behaviors in nonhuman animals. Animals that have had their prenatal hormonal environments intentionally altered to mimic the hormonal environment of the opposite sex frequently exhibit postnatal sexual behaviors characteristic of the opposite sex. For example, male rats that have experienced prenatal androgen-deficient hormonal environments exhibit lordosis, a lack of aggressiveness, and atypical play behavior. Conversely, female rats that have experienced unusually high levels of androgen exhibit mounting behavior, increased levels of aggression, and an avoidance of maternal rearing behavior. In the second area of research, humans whose prenatal sex steroid environment was atypical due to some disorder have been studied. The disorder most studied is congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH), an inherited, autosomal recessive disorder of adrenal steroidogenesis. CAH causes an excessive production of adrenal androgens; in females, this results in full or partially masculinized external genitalia at birth, and in males it appears to have little or no apparent effect. CAH females exhibit unusually high levels of masculine-type behavior, including “masculine” toy preferences, high rates of masculine gender identity, elevated rates of homosexual fantasy and behavior, and low rates of marriage.
Always fun shouting at a brick wall
Edit: oops. Didn't realize the thread had gone back on track while I was finding these. My bad
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 13:31:20. |
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11/29/2007 02:28:40 PM · #104 |
Hmm ... just got back from lunch.
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But I'm about done here -- I've offered some good points that hopefully many are reading and digesting. It really just gets to be repetition as the mob here asks the same thing and throws the same softballs over and over. |
My own personal translation: "I can't defend my position and it's becoming embarrassingly obvious that I'm poorly informed about that which I speak, so I'm going to declare victory and leave ... and denigrate the debating ability of my opponents on the way out the door." |
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11/29/2007 02:42:14 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
Hmm ... just got back from lunch.
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But I'm about done here -- I've offered some good points that hopefully many are reading and digesting. It really just gets to be repetition as the mob here asks the same thing and throws the same softballs over and over. |
My own personal translation: "I can't defend my position and it's becoming embarrassingly obvious that I'm poorly informed about that which I speak, so I'm going to declare victory and leave ... and denigrate the debating ability of my opponents on the way out the door." |
That sounds about right.
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 14:42:39. |
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11/29/2007 02:52:10 PM · #106 |
Voltaire said "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
Its not hard to see why. |
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11/29/2007 02:54:37 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I would never say a Catholic is not Christian. |
I call BS!
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian.
sexual abuse by priests, Catholic, not Christian. |
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Good call!
:-)) |
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11/29/2007 04:22:19 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I would never say a Catholic is not Christian. |
I call BS!
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian.
sexual abuse by priests, Catholic, not Christian. |
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Good call!
:-)) |
No. Bad call!
There is a world of difference between A Catholic ( a noun defined as "a member of the Catholic Church ) and Catholic ( an adjective defined as "of or involving the Roman Catholic Church" ). The former refers to a person, the latter to an institution.
An individual can be both A Christian ( believer in and follower of Jesus Christ ) and A Catholic ( member of the Catholic Church ), but it is illogical to hold that all Christians are Catholics, or that all Catholics are Christians.
In fact, an individual cannot logically observe the tenets of both simultaneously, since the two hold differing views of Mary, Papal authority, confession, baptism, communion, etc. |
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11/29/2007 04:25:53 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I would never say a Catholic is not Christian. |
I call BS!
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian.
sexual abuse by priests, Catholic, not Christian. |
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Good call!
:-)) |
No. Bad call!
There is a world of difference between A Catholic ( a noun defined as "a member of the Catholic Church ) and Catholic ( an adjective defined as "of or involving the Roman Catholic Church" ). The former refers to a person, the latter to an institution.
An individual can be both A Christian ( believer in and follower of Jesus Christ ) and A Catholic ( member of the Catholic Church ), but it is illogical to hold that all Christians are Catholics, or that all Catholics are Christians.
In fact, an individual cannot logically observe the tenets of both simultaneously, since the two hold differing views of Mary, Papal authority, confession, baptism, communion, etc. |
The call on BS was good.
So what you are saying is that if I am a Catholic and I believe in Christ that I may not be a Christian? See and all this time I thought if you believed in Christ you were Christian and I thought Catholics believed in Christ.
Hmmmm... |
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11/29/2007 04:35:18 PM · #110 |
John 1:12
"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—"
Not "All who are born again or those who are not Catholic"
See what "HIM" is saying?
:-)
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 16:35:34. |
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11/29/2007 04:38:24 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
I can't wait to tell my friends about this. I'm in shock!
Even in Northern Ireland where Protestants and Catholics have hundreds of years of genuine hatred behind them, at least they accept they're all Christians. |
Urm, I think you'd find a few fairly vocal people who disagree with you in Northern Ireland as well. I suppose I'm not too surprised that you never paid them any attention, but the position that Catholics aren't Christian is fairly common in the Protestant ranks, too.
//www.ianpaisley.org/tiara.asp
He is still the first minister in Northern Ireland, isn't he ?
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 16:41:46.
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11/29/2007 04:39:26 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
So what you are saying is that if I am a Catholic and I believe in Christ that I may not be a Christian? See and all this time I thought if you believed in Christ you were Christian and I thought Catholics believed in Christ.
Hmmmm... |
He doesn't have a clue. Catholics are Christians. To suggest otherwise is either spectacular ignorance, or a political need to abscond the definition of "Christian", for what ultimate nefarious purpose only time will tell.
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 16:40:18. |
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11/29/2007 04:44:23 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
John 1:12
"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—"
Not "All who are born again or those who are not Catholic"
See what "HIM" is saying?
:-) |
Nice try.
Jesus, himself said:
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
John 3:5-7
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 16:45:05. |
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11/29/2007 04:56:30 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I would never say a Catholic is not Christian. |
I call BS!
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian.
sexual abuse by priests, Catholic, not Christian. |
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Good call!
:-)) |
No. Bad call!
There is a world of difference between A Catholic ( a noun defined as "a member of the Catholic Church ) and Catholic ( an adjective defined as "of or involving the Roman Catholic Church" ). The former refers to a person, the latter to an institution.
An individual can be both A Christian ( believer in and follower of Jesus Christ ) and A Catholic ( member of the Catholic Church ), but it is illogical to hold that all Christians are Catholics, or that all Catholics are Christians.
In fact, an individual cannot logically observe the tenets of both simultaneously, since the two hold differing views of Mary, Papal authority, confession, baptism, communion, etc. |
The call on BS was good.
So what you are saying is that if I am a Catholic and I believe in Christ that I may not be a Christian? See and all this time I thought if you believed in Christ you were Christian and I thought Catholics believed in Christ.
Hmmmm... |
Believing ABOUT Christ is not the same as believing IN Christ ( being born again ). Even Satan and his minions believe ABOUT Christ:
Acts 19:15 "One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?"
Certainly, SOME Catholics believe IN Christ, but those who have been born again do not follow Christ's teachings if they continue to follow all of the tenets of Catholicism, such as praying to the Saints for intercession. |
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11/29/2007 04:58:17 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
He is still the first minister in Northern Ireland, isn't he ? |
You mean Mr Paisley who denounced the Pope as the anti-christ? That guy? lol! |
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11/29/2007 04:58:45 PM · #116 |
| So it looks like a contradiction from our old buddy John. :-) |
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11/29/2007 05:06:21 PM · #117 |
Yeah, I don't even know why I'm getting embroiled in the whole Catholic/Protestant/Christian debate here since I fall into none of these categories. Anyone would think I was trying to defend my religion or something. No, I was simply trying to defend the facts. I don't give a flying fox what Mr Paisley thinks of the Pope.
However, it was most interesting reading the reactions of some of the 'real' Christians. It's enlightening for me to see the true face of Christianity revealed in all its ugliness.
That last sentence sounded almost like something out of the Bible. |
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11/29/2007 05:08:08 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
So what you are saying is that if I am a Catholic and I believe in Christ that I may not be a Christian? See and all this time I thought if you believed in Christ you were Christian and I thought Catholics believed in Christ.
Hmmmm... |
He doesn't have a clue. Catholics are Christians. To suggest otherwise is either spectacular ignorance, or a political need to abscond the definition of "Christian", for what ultimate nefarious purpose only time will tell. |
The definition of Christian is: Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. Catholicism teaches belief ABOUT Christ and is NOT based on the teachings of Jesus. Jesus never taught that salvation came thru baptism; Jesus never taught that ANY man had spiritual authority over another ( excommunication? ); Jesus never taught that confession was only valid if made to a priest; etc. etc.
I'm sorry, Louis, but it is you who do not have a clue. It's not surprising, because you obviously have no basis for understanding what faith is, and certainly no understanding of what it means to be born again.
On another note, it is getting extremely tiresome having you time and time again denigrate those with whom you disagree by claiming that they are clueless. |
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11/29/2007 05:11:33 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by RonB:
It's not surprising, because you obviously have no basis for understanding what faith is, and certainly no understanding of what it means to be born again. |
That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. |
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11/29/2007 05:12:30 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
So what you are saying is that if I am a Catholic and I believe in Christ that I may not be a Christian? See and all this time I thought if you believed in Christ you were Christian and I thought Catholics believed in Christ.
Hmmmm... |
He doesn't have a clue. Catholics are Christians. To suggest otherwise is either spectacular ignorance, or a political need to abscond the definition of "Christian", for what ultimate nefarious purpose only time will tell. |
The definition of Christian is: Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. Catholicism teaches belief ABOUT Christ and is NOT based on the teachings of Jesus. Jesus never taught that salvation came thru baptism; Jesus never taught that ANY man had spiritual authority over another ( excommunication? ); Jesus never taught that confession was only valid if made to a priest; etc. etc.
I'm sorry, Louis, but it is you who do not have a clue. It's not surprising, because you obviously have no basis for understanding what faith is, and certainly no understanding of what it means to be born again.
On another note, it is getting extremely tiresome having you time and time again denigrate those with whom you disagree by claiming that they are clueless. |
In other words, you claim that unless someone meets your definition of a Christian, they aren't one. Nice that you know the mind of God. |
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11/29/2007 05:13:57 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
So it looks like a contradiction from our old buddy John. :-) |
No contradiction. Look again.
The Greek word translated as "right" is "exousia" which means "right" as in "privilege".
Giving someone the RIGHT to own a camera does not make them the OWNER of the camera.
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11/29/2007 05:18:58 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
So what you are saying is that if I am a Catholic and I believe in Christ that I may not be a Christian? See and all this time I thought if you believed in Christ you were Christian and I thought Catholics believed in Christ.
Hmmmm... |
He doesn't have a clue. Catholics are Christians. To suggest otherwise is either spectacular ignorance, or a political need to abscond the definition of "Christian", for what ultimate nefarious purpose only time will tell. |
The definition of Christian is: Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. Catholicism teaches belief ABOUT Christ and is NOT based on the teachings of Jesus. Jesus never taught that salvation came thru baptism; Jesus never taught that ANY man had spiritual authority over another ( excommunication? ); Jesus never taught that confession was only valid if made to a priest; etc. etc.
I'm sorry, Louis, but it is you who do not have a clue. It's not surprising, because you obviously have no basis for understanding what faith is, and certainly no understanding of what it means to be born again.
On another note, it is getting extremely tiresome having you time and time again denigrate those with whom you disagree by claiming that they are clueless. |
In other words, you claim that unless someone meets your definition of a Christian, they aren't one. Nice that you know the mind of God. |
1) It's not MY definition of Christian - it came directly from the American Heritage Dictionary.
2) I would not presume to know the mind of God. Heck, I can't even begin to know the mind of Louis, let alone God. |
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11/29/2007 05:24:06 PM · #123 |
| So Ron, do you think that the use of the word "Water" means baptism or is it a metaphor for enlightenment or realizing god consciousness? |
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11/29/2007 05:30:57 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
In other words, you claim that unless someone meets your definition of a Christian, they aren't one. Nice that you know the mind of God. |
1) It's not MY definition of Christian - it came directly from the American Heritage Dictionary. |
So did this: Catholic: a. Of or involving the Roman Catholic Church. b. Of or relating to the universal Christian church. c. Of or relating to the ancient undivided Christian church. d. Of or relating to those churches that have claimed to be representatives of the ancient undivided church.
and this little doozy:
Reformation A 16th-century movement in Western Europe that aimed at reforming some doctrines and practices of the Roman Catholic Church and resulted in the establishment of the Protestant churches.
i.e.- Baptists and Lutherans evolved from the Catholic concept of Christianity. ;-)
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 17:31:32. |
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11/29/2007 05:36:42 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Gordon:
He is still the first minister in Northern Ireland, isn't he ? |
You mean Mr Paisley who denounced the Pope as the anti-christ? That guy? lol! |
I think I said he was outspoken, didn't I ? :) Anyway - he's also somewhat representative of quite a few people I've met in NI and Scotland too.
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