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11/12/2007 02:01:08 PM · #1 |
As a companion to the other threads currently making the rounds on the subject of voting and why it appears to have tapered off, I decided to start this thread asking the question, why do you think it matters if other people vote?
The unstated premise underlying the current discussion appears to be that increasing the number of votes will improve the quality of the vote, while fewer votes decreases the quality. But is this correct? Anecdotally, I think we all have seen the following: Within the first 25 votes, you have a pretty good idea of where you’re going to end up (mid 5s, low 6s, etc.). By 80-100 votes your position is pretty well set; maybe it will change by a tenth of a point of so. By the time you get to 125-150 or so, your score is moving in the hundreths of a point, barely enough to affect your overall standing in the challenge.
So what do we hope to gain by pushing the average vote per challenge above 150 votes or so? Is it a concern that the vote will get better if more people vote? That others aren’t doing their part? That a small core of voters are “deciding” what DPC likes? That others should vote to improve the quality of their experiences on DPC? That we just want more people to see our work, and more votes = more views?
By framing the problem, if there is one, we may be better able to find a solution. |
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11/12/2007 02:13:23 PM · #2 |
I agree that the number of votes probably isn't a problem. I haven't been here long, but I think that any of the suggestions in other threads that would try to force people to vote would be worthless. I like to vote personally, but I don't really care if you don't vote. It is basic math to see that as the number of votes increases the affect of a single vote is smaller. All of the challenges I have entered so far I have received over 100 votes, which I think is enough to equal out the "trolling". I just wish people would leave more comments. Yes, voting is part of the whole experience, and getting those ribbons is important on some level, but getting helpful comments so I can improve is more important to me. I wish I could get over 10 helpful comments on each image I submit, rather than a lot of votes. With my limited site experience, I think the voting levels are adequate.
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11/12/2007 03:40:45 PM · #3 |
To me. more votes means more comments, and more comments equals more insight and learning for me personally.
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11/12/2007 03:51:33 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by travis_cooper:
...I just wish people would leave more comments... |
I wish people would leave less comments but put more effort into both writing them and into looking at the images they aim to discuss. |
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11/12/2007 03:58:26 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by travis_cooper:
...I just wish people would leave more comments... |
I wish people would leave less comments but put more effort into both writing them and into looking at the images they aim to discuss. |
Sounds noble in theory...know of anyone that can meet that standard? I'd love to read their comments. :-)
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11/12/2007 04:05:13 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
...know of anyone that can meet that standard? I'd love to read their comments. :-) |
Yes, far more than I'd have expected. But then again, they're not "anyone" to me at all. |
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11/12/2007 04:17:01 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by travis_cooper:
...I just wish people would leave more comments... |
I wish people would leave less comments but put more effort into both writing them and into looking at the images they aim to discuss. |
Sounds noble in theory...know of anyone that can meet that standard? I'd love to read their comments. :-) |
I don't think it's so noble. It's a purely practical suggestion. Make a few well-thought-out comments instead of a lot of quick comments. Maybe we should start the Slow Commentors' Club. |
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11/12/2007 04:30:37 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by travis_cooper:
...I just wish people would leave more comments... |
I wish people would leave less comments but put more effort into both writing them and into looking at the images they aim to discuss. |
Sounds noble in theory...know of anyone that can meet that standard? I'd love to read their comments. :-) |
I don't think it's so noble. It's a purely practical suggestion. Make a few well-thought-out comments instead of a lot of quick comments. Maybe we should start the Slow Commentors' Club. |
or the 2 minute voters club, dont press a key untill you actually see the bloody thing.
or the "anti-kneejerkers club" ? although im sick of clubs can we make it a society?
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 16:31:00.
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11/12/2007 04:44:17 PM · #9 |
As for why you should vote, you really do not have to but I think that this site is about competition and finding out how well we relate our photos to challenges, if we all have that attitude and no one votes I guess we would just have give our own scores as we submit and see how we come out.
Woohoo I just gave me a 10, hey look my avearage is 10, we all win everytime!
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 16:45:36. |
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11/12/2007 05:09:35 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by boysetsfire:
or the 2 minute voters club, dont press a key untill you actually see the bloody thing.
or the "anti-kneejerkers club" ? although im sick of clubs can we make it a society? |
Thesis: are all entries worth or deserving 2 minutes of your time ?
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11/12/2007 05:09:57 PM · #11 |
"Why do you CARE if I vote?"
I'm not sure I do care - so long as the non-voters don't enter challenges either.
However I get a little lost at people wanting to enter challenges and receive lots of votes and comments - but not do any voting themselves ??
Surely anyone who has time to read a challenge, take a shot, process it, prep it, upload it and enter it in a challenge should also have time and interest in casting some votes ?
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11/12/2007 05:14:49 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Jedusi:
Surely anyone who has time to read a challenge, take a shot, process it, prep it, upload it and enter it in a challenge should also have time and interest in casting some votes ? |
Take a shot : 1/250s
Prep/ upload it: 1 minute
Voting on a 150 entry challenge,
giving each entry 30 seconds attention: 1hr 15 minutes
....: priceless ? |
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11/12/2007 05:15:59 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by PapaBob:
if we all have that attitude and no one votes I guess we would just have give our own scores as we submit and see how we come out. |
Just for the record, I DO vote; the purpose of this thread is to spur discussion about why anyone cares whether I, or any other user, votes or not.
Thus far, the responses in the thread suggest that I'm right, and no one really cares whether anyone else votes or not. To the extent there is a concern, it is for more comments, not more votes. This prompts me to repeat and expand upon a suggestion I've made in another thread:
Limit voting to 50 randomly selected images in each challenge. Encourage people to leave comments on at least 10% (i.e., 5) of those images. Allow viewing of all pictures in the challenge. Allow comments on other pictures, after you've commented on 5 pictures in your group of 50.
50 pictures is not a lot to vote on. Challenges with less than 100 votes regularly get 200+ votes. If every challenge was only a 50-vote commitment, the total votes would go up. With only 50 pictures to vote on, people may also be more likely to take the time to rank them from 1 to 10, rather than lumping most in the middle with a 5, maybe increasing the quality of the vote. The 5 comment requirement should not result in lower quality comments, since the only "reward" is the right to comment on other pictures in the challenge. If you're not into commenting in the first place, there's little reason to blow through with 5 sloppy comments just to meet that requirement.
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11/12/2007 05:17:11 PM · #14 |
It's the same thing with all the people that read posts but don't post themselves. What a bunch of freeloaders. Anyone that reads posts should post at least one or two themselves. After all, without the posters, this site would be just another pretty picture.
Mike
:>
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11/12/2007 05:25:28 PM · #15 |
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11/12/2007 05:30:06 PM · #16 |
Inspired by  MikeJ's comment I feel compelled to say something here. ;P
I don't care if you vote. "You" as any one individual. Godforbid I should be responsible for anyone failing their college courses, neglecting their children or job, or forgetting to eat properly!
I DO care if YOU vote. "You" as in all of us. Call it an attitude issue, if you like. It worries me (only a little) that there is a growing culture of "it's somebody else's problem." Seeing declining voter activity puts me in mind of the famous story about a woman who was raped in a NYC apartment courtyard. There were many witnesses but no one called the police because all of them thought that someone else would.
I don't really care. Actually, if no one but I votes, then I get to choose all the winners!
As for EstimatedEyes suggestion that there be a limited pool of 50 images...etc. If it could be an option for the voter, then why not? I could still opt to vote the entire 20 - 100% but someone else could check the "I'm Really Busy" box and get the abbreviated version. I would hope, however, that not everyone chose that option at the same time! :) |
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11/12/2007 05:32:20 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
As for EstimatedEyes suggestion that there be a limited pool of 50 images...etc. If it could be an option for the voter, then why not? I could still opt to vote the entire 20 - 100% but someone else could check the "I'm Really Busy" box and get the abbreviated version. I would hope, however, that not everyone chose that option at the same time! :) |
It's pretty much like that most weeks, anyway, isn't it ?
For duotones, you have to vote for 59 pictures. Some weeks the 'really busy' option might drift up to about 80 pictures, but I don't remember it ever being more than 100 that you have to vote on for it to count.
Usually it is well under 50. |
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11/12/2007 05:57:56 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by KaDi:
As for EstimatedEyes suggestion that there be a limited pool of 50 images...etc. If it could be an option for the voter, then why not? I could still opt to vote the entire 20 - 100% but someone else could check the "I'm Really Busy" box and get the abbreviated version. I would hope, however, that not everyone chose that option at the same time! :) |
It's pretty much like that most weeks, anyway, isn't it ?
For duotones, you have to vote for 59 pictures. Some weeks the 'really busy' option might drift up to about 80 pictures, but I don't remember it ever being more than 100 that you have to vote on for it to count.
Usually it is well under 50. |
You're right and I agree. But if it makes people "feel" like they're getting a deal.... Well, you know, $4.99 will always sound like a better deal than $5.00, and 20% off better than 80% on. :)
edit to add: I know the answer, it's not worth the trouble coding.
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 18:09:47. |
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11/12/2007 06:29:06 PM · #19 |
I don't really care whether those who've entered a challenge vote or not.
To me, voting is totally separate from the number of entrants. If a challenge has 500 entries it does not mean it each image should get 499 votes.
Who's to say that the 100+ votes on a challenge came from 100+ of the entrants anyway.
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11/12/2007 06:30:07 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I don't really care whether those who've entered a challenge vote or not.
To me, voting is totally separate from the number of entrants. If a challenge has 500 entries it does not mean it each image should get 499 votes.
Who's to say that the 100+ votes on a challenge came from 100+ of the entrants anyway. |
I agree. |
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11/12/2007 06:57:52 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by travis_cooper:
...I just wish people would leave more comments... |
I wish people would leave less comments but put more effort into both writing them and into looking at the images they aim to discuss. |
Sounds noble in theory...know of anyone that can meet that standard? I'd love to read their comments. :-) |
I don't think it's so noble. It's a purely practical suggestion. Make a few well-thought-out comments instead of a lot of quick comments. Maybe we should start the Slow Commentors' Club. |
well, we already have that...the Critique Club! :) if all of our slow, thoughtful commentors would sign up for that, we could help a lot of our beginner AND more experienced photographers! |
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11/12/2007 07:03:37 PM · #22 |
I'm more concerned that I cast a quality vote and would hope the same from others, whether they vote all the way through or on just a few images.
For two years I used to speed vote and rip through the images often missing or not truly seeing the best of the lot. So the number of votes that I had cast was a waste in terms of giving any image, especially ones that took more time to digest, an honest go.
I believe that's more important than the number of votes cast, keeping in mind I'm not one that goes in for the eye-candy much. It's a required way to shoot if you want to get the attention of the speed voters.
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 19:04:46. |
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11/12/2007 07:08:22 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by sher:
well, we already have that...the Critique Club! :) if all of our slow, thoughtful commentors would sign up for that, we could help a lot of our beginner AND more experienced photographers! |
Two things about the CC that I found quickly sapped my fervor for commenting
1 - You should be able to skip an image you don't want to comment on.
2 - It should totally randomize the images waiting for critiques. Having to churn through a bunch of Duotone images (for example) one after another after another really makes it hard to provide feedback without repeating yourself and tiring very quickly.
#1 is mainly because it's ridiculous to have to comment on ribbon winning/top 10 shots.
Other than that CC is pretty fun. Anyone looking to go make a bunch of comments should consider utilizing the club rather than than the little mini- commenting challenges that spring up once in a while in the forums. Presumably the images in the CC funnel are there because those folks really want your input.
I don't care if anyone votes.
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 19:09:19. |
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11/12/2007 07:13:18 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
... it's ridiculous to have to comment on ribbon winning/top 10 shots.. |
Well, I don't know. Good shots do win ribbons. And good shots are good teachers. Those should be the first ones to be reviewed. |
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11/12/2007 07:20:22 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by routerguy666:
... it's ridiculous to have to comment on ribbon winning/top 10 shots.. |
Well, I don't know. Good shots do win ribbons. And good shots are good teachers. Those should be the first ones to be reviewed. |
This whole 'learn by commenting' thing has a very limited application and doesn't last much beyond the first few thousand images you vote on.
First of all, you are primarily learning the do's and don't of stock photography because that is what excels here assuming the concept of learning is identifying and mimicing the components of shots that win dpc ribbons.
Second, after a while you are seeing the same images again and again so you've already drawn your conclusions and taken most everything you can from the process.
Finally, your comment is just you giving your opinion about what you like. Writing it down agin and again doesn't mean that your basic notion of what makes good photography is not fundamentally flawed to begin with, nor does it mean you are correcting it by repeatedly unleashing it upon others.
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 19:21:00. |
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