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10/15/2007 10:29:05 AM · #51 |
I think there is a pretty good system in place already with the buy/sell forums. I don't want to see adverts from businesses here though clogging up the forums. As was earlier mentioned, there is nothind stopping businesses setting up an account here and using the forums to advertise their wares. And the day DPC becomes a vehicle for other companies business is the day I leave.
I have nothing against other people linking to their website or whatever, because they want the DPC Collective to see their work in a format they think makes it look the best which i'm happy with but I would not want to see a B&H account or a 47st st account or a Jessops account or any of that crap. I like how ppl here say they have an item for sale and if it doesnt sell here it's going to eBay. That's a nice way of doing things.
For me, it ain't broke so don't fix it. And the only thing I can see that is in a grey area is Joey's DVD, and although it is basically advertising, it's not as if he's some random guy trying to peddle something- he's Joey and people know him, plus a lot of people here requested he tell them when it was available. |
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10/15/2007 10:36:31 AM · #52 |
My 0.000002 cents: advertising anywhere costs. Therefore, I think that any ads for services or products on DPC should entail a charge of some sort. DPC acts as a reference for photographers and gets a wide viewing. There is value in putting an ad here and and I think a little bitty charge payable to site owners would be appropriate... how much and how to charge is another thing entirely. The service could be on the user's profile page, their tagline (which I can turn off), and in a special forum...
Message edited by author 2007-10-15 10:38:57. |
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10/15/2007 10:59:34 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Nor should price comparisons. I don't go to Macy's and tell the sales clerk that I won't buy their product because I can get a knock off at Wal-Mart. That's just plain ridiculous. |
You ... and most civilized people ... probably wouldn't.
But my wife works at a retail store. I can tell you (from hearing the sad tales over and over again at night over dinner), there are people that do.
FWIW, my comment to Joey in his thread was only to the effect that he could have sold a lot more by selling at a price that DPC'ers would "jump at" rather than picking a price that they have to "stop and think about". Too many, once they've stopped to think, never start again. End of sale.
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10/15/2007 11:13:26 AM · #54 |
Member + 10 challenges and two months time on the site, whichever comes last.
Separated forum, or even set up a dpcTutorials site, and they can sell it through the site if they want.
That might be the best idea, actually. DPC would get a portion of the sales, so the admin/sc would have an interest in checking the product before offering it, and in protecting it from sheer libel.
Alternatively, simply make it policy that anything other than a strict review or outright price comparison with similar products would be better left out of said forum, wherever that may be.
Funny, when Joey was selling them for $20, nobody cared if products were sold on the site... |
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10/15/2007 11:16:33 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Funny, when Joey was selling them for $20, nobody cared if products were sold on the site... |
Don't know about  nobody, but SC did have at least one conversation about it. . . |
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10/15/2007 11:43:29 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Funny, when Joey was selling them for $20, nobody cared if products were sold on the site... |
A quick search for Joey's DVD turned up many forum discussion threads and highjacks, several of which were locked for getting out of hand. There was also a recent dustup about someone charging for a DPC coffee table book, a brouhaha over a member charging for photo critiques, and several regarding commercial signatures and making money from referrals. So, yeah, somebody cared. |
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10/15/2007 11:46:05 AM · #57 |
I think it's great if DPC people have something of value to sell to me for my photography hobby! It would really suck if DPC people couldn't communicate their products to me, because then I might miss out on something I'd really enjoy! ...and really, it's all about me, isn't it?
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10/15/2007 11:49:34 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by wavelength:
Funny, when Joey was selling them for $20, nobody cared if products were sold on the site... |
A quick search for Joey's DVD turned up many forum discussion threads and highjacks, several of which were locked for getting out of hand. There was also a recent dustup about someone charging for a DPC coffee table book, a brouhaha over a member charging for photo critiques, and several regarding commercial signatures and making money from referrals. So, yeah, somebody cared. |
Okay, I stand corrected. Guess I wasn't paying attention to all the other stuff. Didn't seem like it quite hit this level though, especially if I never even realized that happened at the time.
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10/15/2007 11:50:13 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I think it's great if DPC people have something of value to sell to me for my photography hobby! It would really suck if DPC people couldn't communicate their products to me, because then I might miss out on something I'd really enjoy! ...and really, it's all about me, isn't it? |
Yes, yes it is ALL ABOUT SLIPPY!
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10/15/2007 11:52:54 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I think it's great if DPC people have something of value to sell to me for my photography hobby! It would really suck if DPC people couldn't communicate their products to me, because then I might miss out on something I'd really enjoy! ...and really, it's all about me, isn't it? |
Yes, yes it is ALL ABOUT SLIPPY! |
You are wise! :-D
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10/15/2007 11:53:49 AM · #61 |
I'm here for the slippy :-)
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10/15/2007 11:56:41 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I'm here for the slippy :-) |
The DPC homepage needs something to that effect in the banner. ;-D
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10/15/2007 12:02:09 PM · #63 |
I think that this is a good discussion and brings up a couple of questions I've wondered about in the past.
My personal opinion (since SC asked) is that there should be a separate section for second-party sales, similar to the Buy/Sell forum. I also agree that it should be available to Members Only. (Yes, this cuts down on the sellers' ability to reach a larger audience, but there are other sites and forums that allow for that. This is a site that encourages membership and therefore should have some exclusivity to the availability of certain items/services/issues.)
I've personally benefitted from purchasing other members' equipment, offerings, and/or services, so I would like to see it continue. I can't say that I've personally benefitted from selling any of my own creations yet, but I have toyed with the idea of trying it for some time.
On an intimately related issue, I think that the point about forum signatures is an excellent one. I'm less certain as to how that should be addressed, but it needs to be clarified within the confines of this discussion (otherwise there is an easy way around the structure - just include a link and info in your signature).
Just my 2 cents... Thank you SC for evaluating these issues. I look forward to the final resolution.
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10/15/2007 12:03:00 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Nor should price comparisons. I don't go to Macy's and tell the sales clerk that I won't buy their product because I can get a knock off at Wal-Mart. That's just plain ridiculous. |
You ... and most civilized people ... probably wouldn't.
But my wife works at a retail store. I can tell you (from hearing the sad tales over and over again at night over dinner), there are people that do.
FWIW, my comment to Joey in his thread was only to the effect that he could have sold a lot more by selling at a price that DPC'ers would "jump at" rather than picking a price that they have to "stop and think about". Too many, once they've stopped to think, never start again. End of sale. |
I'm not saying I don't agree with you, just that it is advise maybe better suited to a PM. He could take it or leave it (as with any advise) and then other people wouldn't jump on the bandwagon and start complaining about the price. He's young and he'll learn these things. But he's probably on the defensive now. For instance, if after 6 months sales aren't what he wanted, he could lower the price and advertise a sale. But then again, he could end up making a bundle. I don't fault him for trying to get "pro" prices. Many less talented people are getting them.
This is why I'm thinking it's OK to let the site know what you have available, yet not be able to respond. Those who want to, will buy without considering what other people are doing. Those who can't afford it, won't. No controversy. |
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10/15/2007 12:16:29 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
But he's probably on the defensive now. |
Actually, I gotta say this:
His response within the forum shows maturity beyond his years. In spite of the responses that could be taken as personal attacks, he has held back and kept quiet, replying only to the positive messages.
I'm *very* impressed with his behavior.
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10/15/2007 12:17:22 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Yes, yes it is ALL ABOUT SLIPPY! |
Careful, that's a SLIPPY slope!!! lol
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10/15/2007 01:36:22 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by Kelli:
But he's probably on the defensive now. |
Actually, I gotta say this:
His response within the forum shows maturity beyond his years. In spite of the responses that could be taken as personal attacks, he has held back and kept quiet, replying only to the positive messages.
I'm *very* impressed with his behavior. |
As am I, and likely scores of others.
Ray |
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10/15/2007 01:44:01 PM · #68 |
I keep seeing references to Joey's DVD, but there is a larger issue here. A new forum area limited to Members Only might also affect Workshop Offerings where it's a GTG with an attendance fee, that lens rental business, and any DPC member getting paid for any mentorship/DPC School of Photography sideline ventures.
I also see references to B&H, Jessops, and what have you. Our current Buy/Sell area prohibits those with the "no commercial sales" clause. If we take that clause away in order to open it up to DPC members selling their wares, we'll have to do something about that.
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10/15/2007 06:27:31 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by wavelength:
Funny, when Joey was selling them for $20, nobody cared if products were sold on the site... |
The only probable reason I could think was at DPC people were trying to help. (Many of them bought just to help). So people did not mind. This time around it is commercial purpose. Though some people has termed it 'sharing', it is not sharing it is really selling. Which is the big concerned at the moment. Because if this time it is not thought about or handled correct, it will leave a precedent for future. This thread will be referred again and again. So it is better to have a dicussion and come to a conclusion about it. |
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10/15/2007 07:09:28 PM · #70 |
This is a long thread and I confess I skimmed parts of it. Apologies if this has already been covered.
I pay money for a membership so I don't have to look at the ads that are "pushed" at me. Please don't introduce push ads under another name.
Having said that, there are areas of the site that sell (the price grabber stuff) using user requested or "pull" techniques. And I think that's fine because I can choose to go there and use them, or not.
Maybe introducing a new "Pull Area" for product/service sales like Joey's DVDs would be fine. But please make sure I have to voluntarily go there rather than being dragged there against my will. |
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10/15/2007 08:00:15 PM · #71 |
Note: I use JoeyL in the following post only as an example.
I think that it would be very dangerous to implement something like a services and products forum. There are plenty of online communities that people can choose from. I have chosen this one along with a few others. If DPC is overtaken by advertising, I will leave.
DPC is an online community. We ask questions, we provide answers, we will critique photos and offer our opinions. All of these are encouraged, and make DPC what it is. I have seen a little bit of Joey's new DVD, and I can tell you that it would be very helpful. Watching a screen of photoshop and listening to him explain what he is doing is far more helpful than trying to decipher a criptic, overly technical forum post. Whether or not you think the price for the DVD is justified, I think most people would agree that it deserves some sort of payment due to the time and effort put in to making it.
I feel that there is a place for things like Joey's DVD on DPC. It should be a separate forum. Only members can start a thread, but everyone can reply. Everything on that forum should be related to digital photography, and we should continue to strongly encourage regular forum participation as it is now. We don't want to damage what DPC has become.
Comments are welcome, but don't flame. |
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10/15/2007 08:10:33 PM · #72 |
IF we go down this path then it should be a separate forum - like a hardware buy&sell vs a services B&S, so people can enable/disable as they like with the forum options.
We also need some rules about how many posts about our services, how often to bump and some policing of that.
I personally think it's a bad idea BUT if we are going to allow this for the 2 recent examples, then it should be on for all of us. |
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10/15/2007 08:15:32 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by LERtastic:
Whether or not you think the price for the DVD is justified, I think most people would agree that it deserves some sort of payment due to the time and effort put in to making it.
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Yepp we agree that if someone has put time and effort to make DVD to make money, he deserves the payment.
But it would be fair that then it shall be treated as other products.
I remember some time ago one woman started a thread about coffee table book. Lot of members pointed her out about the money part to her. Why this time it shall be different, just because one person is not known on this site and another one is famous here.
Once if we keep the person-idoltary aside, and think from the perspective of money only , you would see more clearly.
Message edited by author 2007-10-16 05:20:51. |
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10/15/2007 08:24:00 PM · #74 |
(sorry, nevermind)
Message edited by author 2007-10-15 20:28:00. |
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10/16/2007 03:25:06 AM · #75 |
looks like this might need to be sorted out sooner rather than later
link to thread with new user selling something |
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