What's Missing in the Freedom Challenge

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

09/12/2003 01:13:38 AM · #3

What is going on w/ the speed challenge?? I thought it was 24-hr.

Gringo

Nikon D2X

09/12/2003 01:38:27 AM · #4

It was 24 hours Irockstars. It started last night.

I am STOKED to see a few folks bold enough to experiment with the artistic side of photography in this challenge.

I'm waving a big flag that says "Freedom of Expression"
I've seen more artists behind the camera in this challenge than in the previous challenges. I for one would love to see more of them do well with the voters.

irockstars

09/12/2003 02:28:48 AM · #5

Okay... I was just confused because it said until the 18th.

hortopth

Canon EOS-D60

09/12/2003 03:28:20 AM · #6

I struggle to equate all this militaristic stuff with freedom... but it was only a 24 hour thing.....

09/12/2003 04:08:23 AM · #7

Originally posted by hortopth:

I struggle to equate all this militaristic stuff with freedom... but it was only a 24 hour thing.....

Likewise, I can't see any connection between religion and freedom at all? There are a lot of people submitting religion images though...?

xhoss

Kodak DX6490

09/12/2003 04:24:57 AM · #8

without the "militaristic stuff" - freedom would not have been realized, or sustained in America - thus the imagery - is my guess.

if you've never served - it can be hard for some to comprehend how much went/goes in to freedom. (i know your from australia - i'm saying that for the american contingent here)

ciaran

09/12/2003 04:25:39 AM · #9

I suspect its refers to freedom of choice, in America land of the free . You're free to follow whatever religion you believe to be the one true religion. This is a good and healthy aspect of freedom ;) (Putting aside religious diversity seemingly being a large factor behind most wars ;) )

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

09/12/2003 04:31:48 AM · #10

Isn't religion all about adhearing to several hundred rules created several hundrend years ago?

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D

09/12/2003 04:54:55 AM · #11

Originally posted by jonpink:

Isn't religion all about adhearing to several hundred rules created several hundrend years ago?

But you can choose which set. :-)

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/12/2003 05:01:06 AM · #12

Choosing which rules & values to belive and stick to is far from being free.

Being Atheiest or Agnostic however........

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

09/12/2003 05:17:52 AM · #13

I briefly considered a religious subject for 'freedom', as I believe that when your spirit feels free, this is a very spiritual feeling. Religion at it's core is about (or should be about) feeling spiritual. However, there is also the cultural side to religion which is very different and does not signify freedom in any way whatsoever.
There's a saying which goes:
'People who believe in religion are afraid of hell.
People who believe in spirituality have been to hell and don't want to go back'.

ciaran

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G DX VR

09/12/2003 05:24:19 AM · #14

Originally posted by jonpink:

Choosing which rules & values to belive and stick to is far from being free.

Being Atheiest or Agnostic however........

Surely then you've chosen the rules & values of an Atheistic approach to religion or the wishy-washy mis-logic of an Agnostic in that case (of which I fall into the latter category)

The point is, as humans the only way we can make it through the overwhelming sensory input we receive daily is to make mental plans, these plans have to be structured a round a set of rules. Being able to choose these rules is an important part of freedom. Perhaps there isn't *as* much freedom to choose the rules you might like to follow, but there becomes a point at which one man's freedom affects another's freedom. At this point then ensuring *their* freedom is met reduces the choices that the original guy may have had available to them!

myqyl

Nikon D3100

09/12/2003 05:48:16 AM · #15

Originally posted by jonpink:

Isn't religion all about adhearing to several hundred rules created several hundrend years ago?

Nope, not even close...

Imagineer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

09/12/2003 06:33:25 AM · #16

Freedom has little to do with rules, per se. To choose to ignore rules would lead to anarchy which, even then, would create it's own unwritten rules - it's the basis of nature.

The enemy of freedom is brainwashing, where the ability to evaluate the other options is removed or significantly impaired. Some religions do this as they are taught, or indoctrinated, from an early age - thus leading to the intolerance and extremism shown by religious wars, suicide bombings, etc.. These people are unable to choose anymore.

Freedom is the ability to choose which rules to follow.

Message edited by author 2003-09-12 06:56:11.

ciaran

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

09/12/2003 06:35:20 AM · #17

Precisely my point, but far more eloquently put!

wewillexplore

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

09/12/2003 07:13:37 AM · #18

Originally posted by Gringo:

I am STOKED to see a few folks bold enough to experiment with the artistic side of photography in this challenge.

Thanks, but it's worth a low 4 around here to do so. ;)

M

OneSweetSin

Nikon D3000

09/12/2003 07:19:37 AM · #19

Originally posted by irockstars:

Okay... I was just confused because it said until the 18th.

Voting is from the 12th to the 18th

EddyG

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

09/12/2003 10:19:34 AM · #20

Why is there a whole week to vote on this speed challenge?

This is only the second speed challenge I've seen on the site, but for "Back to School", you had 2 days to shoot and 2 days to vote.

This one was 1 day to shoot, 7 days to vote?

I'm just curious what the speed challenge "rules" are...

amsmyth

Nikon D50

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4.0-5.6G ED

09/12/2003 10:49:04 AM · #21

I posted this in a different place but this is the subject I was wondering about so I will post here as well. I too do not understand why there is a whole week for voting on a 24 hour challenge, why not 24 hours? No bias either way, just curious.

bamaster

Canon EOS-D30

09/12/2003 10:49:45 AM · #22

Originally posted by jonpink:

Likewise, I can't see any connection between religion and freedom at all? There are a lot of people submitting religion images though...?

Here is an e-mail I received yesterday. It might help you see the relationship between religion and freedom....

- Tony

This is a statement that was read over the PA system at the football game at Roane CountyHigh School , Kingston , Tennessee , by school Principal, Jody McLoud, on September 1, 2002 . I thought it was worth sharing with your friends. It clearly shows just how far this country has gone in the wrong direction.

~~

"It has always been the custom at Roane County High School football games, to say a prayer and play the National Anthem, to honor God and Country. Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law. As I understand the law at this time, I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it, "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK.

I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK.

I can even use this public facility, to present the merits of killing an unborn baby, as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, no problem.

I can designate a school day as, "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess, "Mother Earth," and call it "ecology."

I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depict people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as, "simple minded" and "ignorant" and call it, "enlightenment."

However, if anyone uses this facility to honor God, and to ask Him to bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is violated. This appears to be inconsistent at best, and at worst, diabolical. Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except God and His Commandments.

Nevertheless, as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree. For me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best, and at worst, hypocritical. I suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally. I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression.

For this reason, I shall "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," and refrain from praying at this time.
However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank God, and ask Him, in the name of Jesus, to bless this event, please feel free to do so. As far as I know, that's not against the law----yet."

One by one, the people in the stands stood, bowed their heads, held hands with one another, and began to pray. They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand, and they prayed in the announcer's box. The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America - the seat of "justice" in the "one nation, under God."

Somehow, Kingston , Tennessee remembered what so many have forgotten.. We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/12/2003 11:03:52 AM · #23

it sort of falls into the 'why not?' category. The challenge is about taking the picture quickly, not voting on it quickly. I think before when we had 2 days of voting, people complained that it wasn't enough time with all the other challenge voting going on.

As for speed challenge 'rules' they are just faster than the normal challenges, so 1 or 2 day deadlines have been common.

Message edited by author 2003-09-12 11:04:32.

Imagineer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

09/12/2003 11:41:32 AM · #24

I'm playing Devil's advocate here in this risky subject of religion, but here goes...

Originally posted by bamaster:

I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it, "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK.

I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK.

I can even use this public facility, to present the merits of killing an unborn baby, as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, no problem.

I can designate a school day as, "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess, "Mother Earth," and call it "ecology."

I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depict people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as, "simple minded" and "ignorant" and call it, "enlightenment."

The problem with the argument above (particularly for sceptics) is that the list above features fact-based references, ie:
Sexual perversion is a fact of life
Sexual promiscuity is a fact of life
Abortion is a fact of life, permitted only now through a democratic society
Ecology is a non-debatable basis for life on earth
but
Religion is a belief and not a fact.

What the school principal omitted to mention was that the examples she used were not 'promoted' but rather are in place as damage limitation for people vulnerable to the excesses of modern society.

To purvey her own beliefs (or those of an organisation) to a mass of impressionable youths, via the privilege of a public address, could be perceived as propaganda or at least favouritism of one faith over another.

The fact that the 'audience' collectively stood in Praise is most likely the result of previous indoctrination and peer pressure rather than completely free choice.

To teach goodwill to your fellow man is surely the most valuable message to convey to these young people, of which many useful parables can be drawn form the Bible and many worldwide religions.

The teachings of religion are therefore perhaps best kept to places of worship where those who have chosen to believe may subject themselves to the preaching of their chosen mentors.