Artistic peer pressure - DPChallenge Forums

10/05/2007 02:32:44 PM · #26

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

All artist gravitate towards what gets them praise from their peers.

Some do, but certainly not all. There are many examples of artists that created unappreciated art for many years, sometimes even their whole life without gaining any recognition among their peers or a wider populace.

10/05/2007 02:34:41 PM · #27

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

All artist gravitate towards what gets them praise from their peers.

Some do, but certainly not all. There are many examples of artists that created unappreciated art for many years, sometimes even their whole life without gaining any recognition among their peers or a wider populace.

I agree with you about the general populace, but I'm terribly sure their opium laced friends were sitting around saying "Dude, that rocks." :-) Not even those that go against the grain, go it completely alone.

Message edited by author 2007-10-05 14:36:09.

posthumous

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/05/2007 02:40:13 PM · #28

If you (general you) are posting "artistic" photographs to please a certain clique, then you've missed the boat before you even started.

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

10/05/2007 02:42:08 PM · #29

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

All artist gravitate towards what gets them praise from their peers.

Some do, but certainly not all. There are many examples of artists that created unappreciated art for many years, sometimes even their whole life without gaining any recognition among their peers or a wider populace.

I agree with you about the general populace, but I'm terribly sure their opium laced friends were sitting around saying "Dude, that rocks." :-) Not even those that go against the grain, go it completely alone.

Not an example in photography, but look at someone like Emily Dickenson. Only a few of her poems were published during her lifetime, and most of those were submitted anonymously. She kept working at it her whole life, writing almost 1800 works that went undiscovered until after her death.

777STAN

Pentax K10D

10/05/2007 02:58:41 PM · #30

Pressure is often a good thing! Pressure turns coal into a diamond!

Harsh criticism of my photography has caused me to rethink many things with regard to how I approach Photography, and engage the culture at large!

I believe my photography has improved during nearly two years with DPChallenge! I'm still at the back of the pack no matter what I try right now, but if Thomas Edison can try approx. 1009 different metals before tungsten helps him to create a lightbulb, then I have a few challenges to go before giving up hope of having a Home Page photo!

I have changed immensely the way I enter challenges, including edits that I have seen to get consistently higher scores. I'm no different from anybody else. I need a "pat on the back" occasionally, too.

The recent Poster Challenge got me so inspired that i now have poster ideas "coming out my ears." I'm having great fun with a recent wedding thanks to fun-loving clients.

As to my personal portfolio, I still have FUN! I upload what I like...no matter who gets the poochie lower lip!

This shows a somewhat sophomorphic approach to editting still, but it's funny to me! Enjoy! :)

Good Mental Health is simply a matter of being SANE when it's profitable, and having a safe place/a happy place where you can go a little "insane" on your Day Off/Rest Period. I mean after all, it's good about once a week to "take the girdle off your brain and send it through the washer & dryer." It removes the mental B.O.! :}

Becoming a great photographer, means having the confidence that I can teach others what I do without anyone ever being able to duplicate ME!

Why do you think Michael Jordan has basketball camps for youth? Michael Jordan can teach you what Michael Jordan does, but only Michael Jordan can be Michael Jordan! :)

Message edited by author 2007-10-05 14:59:30.

10/05/2007 03:14:18 PM · #31

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

But, have you stopped to wonder how her work would have evolved if she hadn't kept it "hidden"? How would critical review improved/harmed it?

And still unpublished doesn't mean unseen. We don't know who may have read/discussed her unpublished work. Ofcourse I have well over 1800 photos you guys will NEVER see and that no one has ever seen.

Every DPCer is published. We are out there for peer/public review. But, what we show our personal friends may be a bit different.

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

10/05/2007 03:46:41 PM · #32

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Not an example in photography, but look at someone like Emily Dickenson. Only a few of her poems were published during her lifetime, and most of those were submitted anonymously. She kept working at it her whole life, writing almost 1800 works that went undiscovered until after her death.

But, have you stopped to wonder how her work would have evolved if she hadn't kept it "hidden"? How would critical review improved/harmed it?

And still unpublished doesn't mean unseen. We don't know who may have read/discussed her unpublished work. Ofcourse I have well over 1800 photos you guys will NEVER see and that no one has ever seen.

Every DPCer is published. We are out there for peer/public review. But, what we show our personal friends may be a bit different.

She corresponded with one established poet who tried to guide her to be more contemporary in her work, she stopped writing to him.

That may be, but those 1800 poems represent her entire life's work, not just the small fraction that 1800 photos represent to your aggregate body of work. It's a fairly safe bet that maybe a handful of people even saw a couple of her poems during her lifetime. The vast bulk were uncovered in journals that were discovered by her family after her death. She had a few close friends, but was not really social at all.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

10/05/2007 03:56:58 PM · #33

The original question seems to apply to everything one does. Positive feedback reinforces but not entirely dictates; not a bad thing to recognize the former for what it is. So, good question.

And hey,

777STAN, what'swith the bold face? Too much motivational poster?

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/05/2007 04:06:31 PM · #34

The great thing for me since I don't sell or feel the need to get published, I don't care about whatever "artistic" means :-). I have only once specifically shot for DPC [I think it's still my highest scoring entry :-/] but normally I throw in what I have done during that period if it sort of fits.

The biggest frustration (not really pressure, although maybe it is) for me is that I hate a lot of the images I take because in my head I see a better image. The ones I like are often not what others like :shrug: In the end most of my images are family related and they don't translate to the outside world.

posthumous

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/05/2007 04:14:38 PM · #35

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

But, have you stopped to wonder how her work would have evolved if she hadn't kept it "hidden"? How would critical review improved/harmed it?

Very few people who study Dickinson's poetry wonder how it could be "improved."

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5- 5.6G ED DX

10/05/2007 04:19:35 PM · #36

Originally posted by posthumous:

Very few people who study Dickinson's poetry wonder how it could be "improved."

Any human's work can be improved.

JeffryZ

Nikon D80

10/05/2007 04:19:52 PM · #37

I think it depends on your confidence in your work and what you are trying to do with it. If you are trying to sell your images, you need to try to come up with ones your customers will like. You can toss in something a bit different or give it a little different take, but in this case really need to try to produce what your client wants- they are paying the bills.

As for your own photography or here at DPC, comformity is part of the learning experience. Find out what others like or consider good. See how they achieve that. But eventually you hopefully try to go in another direction as you find what interests you. For me right now, I am enjoying black and white infrared- not your basic white trees with blue water and skies either. That gets boring fast. If you were even interested in the first place. Eventually you need to find your own style and if you shoot enough, it will come.

While I would like to receive good scores from my entries here, that is less important to me at this time than it was a year ago. We all want people to tell us how great our pictures are. I think I have enough confidence in what I am doing now to have a fairly good idea of how it will place here - but still get surprised sometimes. I still have much to learn.

Message edited by author 2007-10-05 16:20:14.

10/05/2007 04:27:16 PM · #38

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Very few people who study Dickinson's poetry wonder how it could be "improved."

Any human's work can be improved.

Improved by what measure?

If you re-word someone else's poem, it's not their work anymore.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/05/2007 04:34:26 PM · #39

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

If you re-word someone else's poem, it's not their work anymore.

Let me rephrase that.. "Any living human's work can be improved." Obviously she can't improve now, since she is dead.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

10/05/2007 04:39:47 PM · #40

Question: Do any of you feel pressured to meet the artistic expectations that have developed around your work?

Answer: What others might expect I can't know and wouldn't care about in any case. I'd rather surprise than fill an assignment. But I certainly feel pressured by my own expectations.

Question: Does it ever keep you from shooting something that might have pleased you?

Answer: Never. But I wish it would keep me from publishing something that just isn't robust enough to stand on its own.

Question: Are you shooting everything just as before, but limiting what you show here?

Answer: I'm trying not to but probably do to some degree. I just trash more than ever before. Trashing has become a large part of the process for me.

Do you ever find yourself about to take or upload a photo that you personally enjoyâ�¦ only to stay your hand for fear of your reputation or the reaction of those whose opinion you value?

Answer: God, no.

Are you doing us all a favor by reducing the volume of mundane photography?

Definitely.

or are you compromising simple pleasures to please the critics,

Answer: That would be hypocritical, blasphemous and a sad waste of time. But to keep pleasure simple... quite a challenge on its own.

or have your tastes truly evolved to a point that only â��higher artâ�� will do?

Answer: Art ain't that high-brow. I can stoop pretty low, actually, to reach out for that kind of exhilaration. But, yes, tastes do evolve. I think that mine have become more inclusive of many different ways of seeing. I have a weakness for snapshots and anything that doesn't come at me with syrup and sentiment.

posthumous

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

10/05/2007 05:55:23 PM · #41

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Very few people who study Dickinson's poetry wonder how it could be "improved."

Any human's work can be improved.

Well, then, your religious beliefs are different than mine. No sense arguing this point.

Bernard_Marx

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/05/2007 05:57:48 PM · #42

zeuszen,

Thank you for all of those direct responses to my initial questions! I realize that threads have a mind of their own and have to meander, but it is also nice to learn just what you are after.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

10/05/2007 06:00:05 PM · #43

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Very few people who study Dickinson's poetry wonder how it could be "improved."

Any human's work can be improved.

Well, then, your religious beliefs are different than mine. No sense arguing this point.

Some gods' work can be improved too :-)

pawdrix

Nikon D700

10/05/2007 06:17:33 PM · #44

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Very few people who study Dickinson's poetry wonder how it could be "improved."

Any human's work can be improved.

How would you improve on that image?

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

10/05/2007 06:23:10 PM · #45

Originally posted by pawdrix:

How would you improve on that image?

By not thread-jacking asking an irrelevant question with it.

Seriously, I'm the wrong person to ask about that style of photography.

Message edited by author 2007-10-05 18:24:37.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

10/05/2007 06:30:14 PM · #46

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by pawdrix:

How would you improve on that image?

By not thread-jacking asking an irrelevant question with it.

Seriously, I'm the wrong person to ask about that style of photography.

From the OP: "Do you ever find yourself about to take or upload a photo that you personally enjoyâ�¦ only to stay your hand for fear of your reputation or the reaction of those whose opinion you value? Are you doing us all a favor by reducing the volume of mundane photography or are you compromising simple pleasures to please the critics, or have your tastes truly evolved to a point that only â��higher artâ�� will do?"

I think the question is in the spirit of the thread. Doing what you want to do. Not being led or confined by others...

c'mon...look at that tilt for heavens sake!!!

Is it bad or wrong? Should it have been corrected?

Message edited by author 2007-10-05 18:33:42.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

10/05/2007 06:34:30 PM · #47

Re improving: not a question of improving our work, but improving our skills and developingas writers/photographers/seekers of the way. The idea that one's work could always be better can be breathtaking/suffocating; at least to me it smacks of the much vaunted pursuit of excellence which we use to beat our children over the heads with. (Sorry if this is by the way, but that thing about Emily really got to me; some people actually work better in isolation, not testing themselves in the marketplace).