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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> Big Beautiful People
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 09/04/2007 06:49:43 PM · #26
How would people feel if you asked for a "Skinny Women Only" challenge? Probably not too happy. It's too specific to be a good challenge, I think, and then it is also a bit discriminating in the same way that a "Skinny Women Only" challenge would be. What's next, Black Models? Muscle Men? Nerdy Teenagers?
 09/04/2007 07:50:50 PM · #27
Originally posted by Atropos:
How would people feel if you asked for a "Skinny Women Only" challenge? Probably not too happy. It's too specific to be a good challenge, I think, and then it is also a bit discriminating in the same way that a "Skinny Women Only" challenge would be. What's next, Black Models? Muscle Men? Nerdy Teenagers?


why not all of the above? they are all specific areas that have there own unique concerns, styles, and appeal / audience, and are no more discriminatory than each of us make them. what's so hard about realizing that we are all here to LEARN and, yes, many of us are trying to improve ALL of our skills for a variety of customers who come to us from all walks of life. Is it discriminatory to CHALLENGE ourselves by pushing our work in directions we may not be familiar with?

I can immediately think of LOTS of people whom I've met through photography who DON'T meet the average person's idea of attractive (including all those damned self-portraits!) - yet they & their friends / family still want flattering images of these people. Is it my task to be afraid of offending these people, or should I focus on getting the best image possible? Haven't MOST of us @ one time worked to remove a blemish on a photo, or wondered how to best light / pose / recommend outifts for someone? Stop screaming 'foul!' & start thinking how to best accomplish what many of us aspire to do - portray our subjects to the best of our ability by trial & learning.

Please stop making this an issue of "You can't focus on one issue, just because it might be offensive". I thought this site was about learning to CHALLENGE ourselves? If even one person pushes them self, and thereby becomes more accepting / caring of persons they MIGHT have previously shunned (even if only the tiniest bit), then why the hell NOT do it???

MAYBE WE COULD LEARN FROM EACH OTHER ON THESE SUBJECTS, INSTEAD OF ONLY FOCUSING ON SOCIETY'S IDEAS OF 'PRETTY'!!!!!

Sorry, but I'm done with this one - EVERY subject can be approached in a positive light if you just try a little...

Message edited by author 2007-09-04 20:09:32.
 09/04/2007 08:03:20 PM · #28
Originally posted by Atropos:
How would people feel if you asked for a "Skinny Women Only" challenge? ....Black Models?


Do you know in countries with darker people there were film brands marketed at capturing dark skin tones? They were mostly unavailable i the US. It takes a different approach to photograph a dark-skinned person than it does a light skinned one. That is if you want to do it well.

Consequently a Black Models challenge would be very educational as would one being geared toward plus sized models.

Message edited by author 2007-09-04 20:04:53.
 09/05/2007 10:10:46 PM · #29
To put people into definite classifications like that would be discrimination. Yes there are different ways of photographing different types of people, but that doesn't mean calling on people to do that specifically is right for a DPC challenge. You can use your skills and learn some new techniques by photographing those types of people and entering it into an appropriate challenge (any Portrait challenge, for instance) that is not designated specifically for overweight people or African-Americans. I don't really need to argue this point anymore though as I don't see it ever happening.
 09/06/2007 12:58:12 AM · #30
I'm undecided on the challenge idea, though as a BW (just not so beautiful) I'm not insulted by it.
Sounds like it could make a great mentoring-type thread, though...
The different techniques used for different body types and skin/hair tones?
 09/06/2007 01:31:35 AM · #31
I see where the PC in DPC came from... and PC is a bunch of BS.
 09/06/2007 01:40:07 AM · #32
I don't think we need to be politically correct here on DPC--especially for "plus sized" models, or models of color.

Heck, if plus-sized was discriminatory , then the "Big and Tall" clothing stores would be out of business.

09/06/2007 01:43:24 AM · #33
The DNMC's should be interesting, I can see the comments now "model to good looking, needs to be larger"....lol
 09/06/2007 01:47:28 AM · #34
Maybe I am wrong here but, I believe the essence of the challenge that fotomann_forever was getting at was to accentuate the beauty of larger women not to discriminate against anyone.

I am a BBW and I am not at all offended by this challenge idea. I know there are thinner and heavier women out there. I would also like to add that just because someone is larger does not mean that they are not active or healthy.

I think we need to start embracing who we are instead of worrying about discrimination. In regards to the ethnicity comment, I imagine that most people are proud of their ethnicity and would be honored to have a challenge directed at them. I think too often we want to see people as the same. We are not the same and we should embrace our differences. I took a multicultural class in college; it opened my eyes to this very topic of discrimination. I personally believe that discrimination is bred by not accepting the differences among us.

With all that said, I am in favor of this challenge and any others that give credit to people and our differences.

Message edited by author 2007-09-06 01:54:25.
 09/06/2007 02:03:03 AM · #35
sophie dahl
09/06/2007 02:07:45 AM · #36
Originally posted by wickee_one:
Maybe I am wrong here but, I believe the essence of the challenge that fotomann_forever was getting at was to accentuate the beauty of larger women not to discriminate against anyone.


Not just that, but doing flattering portraiture/studies of large people is a skill that has to be worked on if you want to do it well. It's sort of a real-world assignment for those who might like to make their living doing portraiture. I have sat in on photography classes where they spent a week working with big, attractive models, learning the lighting and posing skills, the camera angles, that work well. So it's an instructive challenge topic, I think. Would be interesting to see the entries, I tell ya.

I think it's ridiculous the gets turned into a PC debate, and I think it's fairly silly to say this challenge is too restrictive. We have had similarly restrictive challenges before, after all.

R.
 09/06/2007 02:15:21 AM · #37
Like I said before, photograph any person you want regardless of race or size. There are many challenges that give opportunity for photos like this to be entered... there is no need for a challenge geared specifically toward one body type or one race or any one classification of a person. And if your photo doesn't win, don't blame it on the voters not liking the looks of the model... alot of people think certain photos should have finished higher or the winning photos shouldn't have won. That happens in almost every challenge for almost every kind of photo.
 09/06/2007 02:24:49 AM · #38
Fine, then lets not have DoF challenges or Slow Shutter challenges, but rather "Control your exposure" challenges.

Let's not have side lighting, backlighting, single light source... lets have "use some lights" challenges.

This is NOT a PC thing and I had hoped we were above this. It is for all intents and purposes a technical challenge. It takes a completely different set of skills to do portraits of heavier people well than it does for photographing a supermodel.

If you don't want to learn, don participate. Period. I don't agree with how Bokeh is debated on this site, so I entered Power instead. I have no clue how to do this Impressionism thing, but damnit I'm trying.

Message edited by author 2007-09-06 02:30:14.
 09/06/2007 02:27:59 AM · #39
I don't see the point of having this challenge. Perhaps if everyone had to shoot the same model it would be interesting but that's not the case. So instead of seeing a Kate Moss model shot win we'd see a Beyoncé.
 09/06/2007 08:23:31 AM · #40
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
This is NOT a PC thing and I had hoped we were above this. It is for all intents and purposes a technical challenge. It takes a completely different set of skills to do portraits of heavier people well than it does for photographing a supermodel.


Then why did you word the challenge description in such an insulting way? For one who expects others to be above, you certainly came out below. I had hoped we were above that.

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Challenge: Big Beautiful Women
Description: Lose the skinny, underfed models. Capture the beauty of a plus size woman.


09/06/2007 09:42:15 AM · #41

09/06/2007 10:11:23 AM · #42
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
For one who expects others to be above, you certainly came out below. I had hoped we were above that.


Guess you're not above it either, huh?
 09/06/2007 10:15:13 AM · #43
Iâm confused? Iâm 6â2â, go about 230 pounds and in pretty good shape. Am I big? Someone mentioned Beyonce as an example of big, but unless she gained a lot of weight since I seen her last, sheâs very far from big in my book! Iâd call her voluptuous and consider her pretty healthy looking. Is a person that could stand to lose 10-15 pounds really considered big, or just a little chunky? How about a woman thatâs pretty normal weight wise, but has huge boobs? Thatâs big and beautiful in my book! Can we call a woman that is normally on the skinny side, but currently pregnant big? Or is that another challenge? Or the girl in Hairspray, is she big, or just fat, or is she maybe large? Nicole Kidman is tall. Can tall be big? Or are we talking about the person pushing the limits of the little electric cart at Wal-mart big? Or is that beyond big and should be in the enormous people challenge? But that brings up a good point, is there an upper limit on being big? At what point is a person beyond big? Is that where the beautiful part of the challenge comes in? If sheâs too big to make beautiful with lighting and angles sheâs too big for the challenge? Is it only big people that can still be considered beautiful that can be in the challenge? I think we need clarification on big and beautiful. Maybe we need a weight limit or a dress size / pant size range to define big? Without clarification, as someone else said, we are going to get a lot of DNMC on this one.
 09/06/2007 10:34:57 AM · #44
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Iâm confused?....How about a woman thatâs pretty normal weight wise, but has huge boobs? Thatâs big and beautiful in my book!....



09/06/2007 10:38:56 AM · #45
Originally posted by doctornick:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Iâm confused?....How about a woman thatâs pretty normal weight wise, but has huge boobs? Thatâs big and beautiful in my book!....



Pass the popcorn, while I take in the scenery :-)
 09/06/2007 10:39:20 AM · #46
Originally posted by doctornick:
[quote=LoudDog] Iâm confused?....How about a woman thatâs pretty normal weight wise, but has huge boobs? Thatâs big and beautiful in my book!....

[/quote

I'll have two please.
 09/06/2007 10:45:54 AM · #47
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Then why did you word the challenge description in such an insulting way? For one who expects others to be above, you certainly came out below. I had hoped we were above that.


I kinda fixed that... now didn't I?

Message edited by author 2007-09-06 10:46:42.
 09/06/2007 10:45:56 AM · #48
yeh that's why everyone said i look yellow in my Moi photo! i'm not yellow that's how i look damn it!

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Atropos:
How would people feel if you asked for a "Skinny Women Only" challenge? ....Black Models?


Do you know in countries with darker people there were film brands marketed at capturing dark skin tones? They were mostly unavailable i the US. It takes a different approach to photograph a dark-skinned person than it does a light skinned one. That is if you want to do it well.

Consequently a Black Models challenge would be very educational as would one being geared toward plus sized models.

09/06/2007 10:47:08 AM · #49
Originally posted by chip_k:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
For one who expects others to be above, you certainly came out below. I had hoped we were above that.


Guess you're not above it either, huh?


When did I insult groups of people by suggesting that because they were thin, they were malnourished and deride them as "skinny" or "underfed"?
09/06/2007 10:47:47 AM · #50
Originally posted by Chinabun:
yeh that's why everyone said i look yellow in my Moi photo! i'm not yellow that's how i look damn it!


Christine, one of my favorite models, has a tendency to look orange in photos.
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