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08/28/2003 09:17:28 AM · #1 |
| Here's a great link on contrast masking, I've got amazing results in a few minutes with this on my old photos, especially when adjusting the opacity of the new layer to make the effect a bit more subtle. I think it's extremely harsh that we can't use this for challenges, especially considering it's an old darkroom technique. I'm starting to agree with a lot of people here that it really is time to seriously reconsider the rules here. On another thread I started recently, I wondered where all my statistically favourite photographers have gone. Maybe this is a HUGE reason why they're not here now! |
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08/28/2003 10:09:23 AM · #2 |
The general trend seems to be as a person comes to expand their abilities and understanding of photography and what has traditionally been done and what is currently possible, that they start pushing for more flexible rules, that allow them to create images to the best of their ability. This seems like a natural desire - dpc is a lot of fun, a great experience and people want it to still be there for them while using all their skills and creative ability (for photography - any digital art discussions are just missing the point)
But the general feel here is that the majority don't want to change, through either ignorance of what is possible (due to lack of experience) or a desire for an arbitary boundary in their creativity, which has value in improving skills in the basics of camera use, while missing a large part of what photography has always been about - the best possible final image - not the best possible slide or negative, or auto-processed digital capture.
The recent 'anything goes' editing challenges don't promote good photography either, as they encourage photoshop tricks and things that are pretty obviously not photography but digital art and manipulation - again perhaps a valid art form and maybe based on some original photographic images, but certainly not photography in any normal sense.
So we are left with a minority who wish free editing _photographic_ challenges which we have never actually attempted here. I think the search for such challenges has caused some people to leave, or branch out to other sites that do successfully run such challenges, but don't have the great community presence that dpc has fostered.
Message edited by author 2003-08-28 10:13:17.
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08/28/2003 10:39:10 AM · #3 |
It's a shame that the minority seem to be the best photographers... I agree, I don't want to go somewhere else because I like the community here. I disagree that the anything goes challenges don't promote good photography... there will be those that experiment with extreme effects, but voting will usually keep them in line. Also, don't you think people might be going off the rails at first, but might settle down if it becomes a regular thing?
It's just that I am really starting to realise how important it is to be able to edit outside of these rules in my own photography to achieve very subtle effects.
Damn, I wish I hadn't been the other side of the fence the last time this discussion was going on! |
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08/28/2003 11:08:15 AM · #4 |
On the editing rules, I don't think I was very clear. There are two separate issues involved.
1/ the tools used
2/ the intent of their use
I think we should be allowed to use whatever tools and techniques we want.
I think the intent should be to produce things that look like a natural photograph, rather than an obviously manipulated one.
So I do believe in no editing restrictions, I'd rather see an encouragement to produce good photographs, rather than good digital art. Typically digital art is very obviously computer manipulated or generated.
I think the 'open editing' challenges have provided obvious direction in the first case, but no hints to what intent should be aimed for. The second point is what would set us appart from sites like 'worth1000.com' and other places that explore heavyily manipulated work and composite imagery. I'd personally love to see anything goes challenges that were guided towards good photography. |
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08/28/2003 02:55:48 PM · #5 |
Gordon, I agree with Bob that people would settle down and get with the program which is to produce the best possible photograph. The temptation to get carried away with a no-holds-barred challenge would quickly fade and the voters would enable that process.
I've been amused reading another forum thread of folks complaining about their cameras. The comments are most informative and I do hope if/when I win the lottery I can find it again before I go shopping. Some of us with lower-end cameras are limited by auto everything. No aperture priority, no shutter priority, no in-the-camera tricky stuff. This is not a complaint. I won't say I'm thrilled with my camera, but it got me to DPC and I feel that here I've learned so much! I would also like to learn, though, editing techniques that will enhance the best photos my camera and I are able to capture. This might level the playing field a bit, or not.
If, as it seems, the admins think the no-holds-barred challenges have been disastrous, please keep in mind how thirsty we are when we emerge from the rules' desert. Slake that thirst a bit and we're most likely to be more moderate and appropriate with the voters' help and our own common sense.
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08/28/2003 03:21:37 PM · #6 |
I agree with you guys. I continue to learn tricks and techniques that I am unable to apply to me Dpc photos and they most certainly are used to enhance the photogragh not to make digital art out of it. I don't buy into the idea that by allowing full editing that it would turn this site into a digital art site. The intent to keep all images photographic in nature could be specifically spelled out easily enough. It would not have to be a case where users could get dq'd for going too far but tht the voters would be encouraged to vote down those photos that are too manipulated based on their own ideas of what a photo should look like. It's letting the voters decide based on the intent of the site. I think there would still be a lot of room for creative interpretation.
T
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08/30/2003 02:11:19 AM · #7 |
I am very pleased to see the site council folks to join in this discussion. This website is really great learing tool. It's a shame that sometimes it is really limiting in its editing rules. But as all things do, maybe it will evolve a little bit further in near future to allow for more creative approach when it comes to post processing photos.
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08/30/2003 11:16:13 AM · #8 |
For the Future challenge, I took advantage of the no editing rules and went all out. If we were allowed to use a wide range of techniques and tools on a regular basis to enhance our images to the best final product possible, I don't think I would be tempted to "get my fill" of Photoshop for a given challenge. //www.fredmiranda.com has weekly and monthly challenges with no editing restrictions in order to achieve the best image possible. They do state in the rules that editing should be to tweak your image to the best it can be, not just to show off your software skills. If you take a look at the challenge submissions there, very few are 'digital art.' What you see are a lot of stunning photos, that have used editing to make them outstanding instead of just great. I'm not making a case for DPchallenge to change the rules, because there are other places on the web to fulfill that need. DPC has a great community, but I think some flexibility will keep people here, rather than have them move on to more flexible sites. DPC has grown and been very successful. As the members and their skills grow with it, something has to expand with their skills, otherwise people will leave to seek a site that allows them to continue to grow in talent and abilities.
JD Anderson
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08/30/2003 11:36:37 AM · #9 |
I would like to add my voice to those who wish for a revision of the editing rules at DPC. I also am constantly learning new ways to work with my pictures, but can't use them in challenges because of the rules; I would like to use them, and not just in special challenges. I realize that in doing so I'm probably upping the competition for any photos that I enter, in other words, the competition is going to be greater. But I would learn from it, and hopefully get better myself, which is what I'm really after.
IMO people who are starting out in digital photography would appreciate this, as they would learn how to produce their best images, not just their best images within the editing rules.
Ursula
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