New Canon EOS 300D - DPChallenge Forums

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

08/20/2003 08:17:19 AM · #26

more differences:

300D has Pentamirror, 10D has Pentaprism (different?)

300d Viewfinder Magnification = 0.8x, 10D = 0.88x

300D Eyepoint = 21mm, 10D = 20mm

300D ISO = 100,200,400,800,1600, 10D has all plus 3200

300D uses RS-60E3 remote (YAY!), 10D uses N3

300D does not have a PC Sync Terminal, 10D does

300D shoots 2.5fps - 4 frames max, 10D shoots 3fps - 9 frames max

300D battery life slightly lower- 350-600 shots vs 400-650 for 10D

300D date/time backup battery is CR2016, 10D uses CR2025

300D is smaller and weighs less:
142x99x72.9mm (5.6x3.9x2.9 in) vs 149x1075x75mm (5.9x4.2x3.0 in)
560 g (19.7 oz) vs 790 g (27.9 oz)

300D has a plastic body with steel substructure, 10D is magnesium alloy

300D comes bundled with dedicated Wide Angle lens, 10D does not.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

08/20/2003 08:23:03 AM · #27

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

300D comes bundled with dedicated Wide Angle lens, 10D does not.

Dedicated? I'm not sure I understand what that means...

08/20/2003 08:39:17 AM · #28

Originally posted by hortopth:

ahh, i missed that. Sixteen minutes (roughly), thats pretty fun. I think the description I read must have left that out, or assumed I already knew it was there. I'm pretty sure the D60 doesn't have it (wrong again??)

Anyone else have a digital with a bulb setting? This will ultimately narrow down the cameras I would be interested in.

Do these EOS Digitals have the old option of multiple exposures on the one frame?... or do I have to make that work afterwards on photoshop

The D60 has a bulb setting as well (same deal - switch to manual, change the shutter speed to 'B')

With the external remote timer, I can set it up to 99 hours, 99 minutes. I suspect I would get a mostly white scene then! I've used it for 4 minute exposures without noise problems, e.g., this shot,

Ultimately bulb mode isn't a whole lot of use without an external shutter release as you'd have to keep the button pressed otherwise.

jab119

08/20/2003 08:42:08 AM · #29

Originally posted by hortopth:

Originally posted by scab-lab:

The Canon D60 has a bulb setting also.

You're kidding! I am hoping to TAKE the D-60 off of a family member the next time I visit the U.S.A. She told me it does not have the BULB setting. Next flight for me.

The D60 does have a bulb mode....

and if you get the canon TC-80N3 remote you can hold the shutter open for longer than you care for....but then again if you did that you would have soooooooo much CCD sensor noise it would be a usless image.

The longest exposure I have done is 3 minutes

also with the canon TC-80N3 remote you can do all sorts of goodies, it has a self timer which you can select from 1 second or what ever you want..... you can do time lapse photography, or set it to take lets say 99 images with an interval between each shot of 10 minutes (or 1 second if you want).

for the self timer, interval timer and long exposure's you can select anywhere between 1 second all the way up to 99 HOURS 59 minutes and 59 seocnds ( so basically you can have a 100 hour exposure, 4.16 days, if you needed it)

for the exposure count you can only preselect it to take 99 images

My only gripe about the canon TC-80N3 remote is tha cable is too short, but I do beleive there is an extension for it.

James

lionelm

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/20/2003 08:58:19 AM · #30

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

300D comes bundled with dedicated Wide Angle lens, 10D does not.

Dedicated? I'm not sure I understand what that means...

Dunno but it's possible that the zoom is controlled from the cam ?
Lionel

bod

08/20/2003 09:00:14 AM · #31

Originally posted by lionelm:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:

300D comes bundled with dedicated Wide Angle lens, 10D does not.

Dedicated? I'm not sure I understand what that means...

Dunno but it's possible that the zoom is controlled from the cam ?
Lionel

I think he means that the lens will only work with the 300D.

08/20/2003 09:05:23 AM · #32

they have a lens now called the EF-S 18-55mm 'designed exclusively' for the 300D.

it's not clear yet whether or not this lens will work with other EF mount cameras.

08/20/2003 09:13:55 AM · #33

Interview with Alessandro Stanzani, Canon's head of marketing.

Is the EF-S lens the start of a new EF-S series?

The short back focus system of the EOS 300D provided a route for Canon to develop the EF?S 18?55mm - a high performance, low weight, short length, cost effective standard zoom lens for EOS 300D customers. This lens only fits the EOS 300D but, as with all EOS cameras, the EOS 300D fits every lens in the EF range. So when the time comes for EOS 300D customers to consider their next lens, they will share the advantage of every other EOS user by having the whole range of over 60 EF lenses to choose from. This particular EF-S lens is therefore seen as a specialised lens within the EF range. It is the EF range to which we are committed and to which Canon continues to invest substantial development resource.

jimmythefish

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 10:53:36 AM · #34

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

geez.

if this thing is spec'd almost identical to the 10D, what was even the POINT of the 10D?

and why would anyone keep wanting to buy 10D's now that this camera came out (less than 5 months after)?

any ideas?

It's Canon trying to equal their film range of cameras. There isn't a huge difference in performance, but rather image and market share. They make the 300D exactly what the Rebel is - a camera that will appeal to the range of people who would have bought a film Rebel before the days of digital. While technically able to fit L lenses, probably very few will ever have them. They dumb down the features slightly, and while the image coming off it would be indistinguishable 99.9% of the time from a 10D or a 1Dsomething with the same lens, the snobs will gag and say that it's not a 'real' camera because of this and that.

I bought my 10D literally 1 day before this announcement, and I knew a cheaper DSLR was coming. I bought it mainly for sports photography and the 3fps was on the slow end. That, and the body is built to take a bit of use. The 300D wouldn't be up to snuff for me, as the 10D's frame rate was of somewhat of a concern and the tossup was more 1D/10D or wait until the EOS 3 (3D?) equivalent came out to see what that was like...

Anyways, this camera will rock the industry. The F828 is looks like an awesome camera and has many advantages over this SLR (movie, live preview, etc) for an all-in-one package, but Sony (and Minolta and Nikon) have got a battle ahead...

robsmith

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG for Canon

08/20/2003 11:10:01 AM · #35

What people appear to have missed in all of this is that the 'holy grail' of DSLR's has been reached - it's the first sub 1000USD/GBP DSLR. As such it's obviously going to have features missing, but Canon will pick up people on the upgrade path. At the end of the day it's all about making money for the company.

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 11:13:12 AM · #36

Not the same dude:

2.5 fps @ 4 frames MAX versus 3 fps @ 9 frames max.

body is probably not made of magneisum. NO MIRROR lockup as well. ISO limited to 1600.

Imagine all the "out of focus" question we'll get now :)

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 11:17:01 AM · #37

I am still waiting for their 1Dx, upgrade to their 1D (supposedly 8 megapixels @ 8 frames per second).

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

08/20/2003 11:59:01 AM · #38

Looks cosmetically almost identical to my Canon Rebel Ti.

Features are very similar too, including the lack of mirror lock up, limited support for remote/ cable release, body construction etc.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

08/20/2003 12:07:40 PM · #39

Originally posted by Gordon:

Looks cosmetically almost identical to my Canon Rebel Ti.

Features are very similar too, including the lack of mirror lock up, limited support for remote/ cable release, body construction etc.

My first impression as well. I think I'll keep waiting for the 10D or similar to get below $2000 CDN.

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

08/20/2003 12:52:26 PM · #40

see, that's the thing - the feature set is SOOO close that i think the new camera is going to eat right into the 10D's sales because the clearest difference between the 2 is the price.

The funny part is that they could have probably still sold a lot more 10D's at $500 more. I didn't think the 10D's momentum was over yet. Who knows, maybe their profit margin on the 300D is higher because maybe it's really cheap to produce.

One thing I do wish my 10D has was weather-sealing. That would be a clear build-quality difference between the two. As it is, the 10D is sturdy but then again, I don't use my camera to hammer nails. I.e. I need some sturdiness that has a practical application.

Originally posted by jimmythefish:

They dumb down the features slightly, and while the image coming off it would be indistinguishable 99.9% of the time from a 10D or a 1Dsomething with the same lens, the snobs will gag and say that it's not a 'real' camera because of this and that.

Message edited by author 2003-08-20 12:52:42.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

08/20/2003 01:17:39 PM · #41

Hey all you Canonites out there...can you tell me if it's possible to do manual focusing with any of the EF lenses? Also, what's all this hullaballo about mirror-lockup?

Sigma 50mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Sigma

08/20/2003 01:23:24 PM · #42

possible with pretty much all of them.

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Hey all you Canonites out there...can you tell me if it's possible to do manual focusing with any of the EF lenses? Also, what's all this hullaballo about mirror-lockup?

chunsum

Sigma SD14

08/20/2003 01:38:43 PM · #43

WHy read Japanese or German site about the 300D(digital rebel) if you can read the US version?

//www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20030820_digitalrebel.html

jimmythefish

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 01:43:00 PM · #44

The mirror reflects the light coming through the lens up to the viewfinder. When you trip the shutter, the mirror moves up and out of the way. This causes a very slight slap and vibration which can cause camera shake. Mirror lockup allows you to frame a shot (usually used in studio and/or landscape) and then lock the mirror up so that it doesn't slap. The disadvantage is that you can't use the viewfinder when the mirror is locked, of course.

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

Hey all you Canonites out there...can you tell me if it's possible to do manual focusing with any of the EF lenses? Also, what's all this hullaballo about mirror-lockup?

jimmythefish

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 01:43:24 PM · #45

'cause it wasn't out when i posted...

Originally posted by chunsum:

WHy read Japanese or German site about the 300D(digital rebel) if you can read the US version?

//www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20030820_digitalrebel.html

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/20/2003 02:36:18 PM · #46

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

One thing I do wish my 10D has was weather-sealing. That would be a clear build-quality difference between the two. As it is, the 10D is sturdy but then again, I don't use my camera to hammer nails. I.e. I need some sturdiness that has a practical application.

Speaking from a D60 perspective (and I believe the 10D has even better construction than the D60), there is a really large difference in feel and handling between the D60 and the Rebel Ti. The Ti is much lighter, which makes a big difference to how it handles. I think the Ti is unusual for the rebel family in that it has a metal lens mount - not sure if this new 300D has a metal or plastic lens mount, but overall the Ti is a really different experience compared to the D60. (even ignoring the fact that one is digital and the other is film(!))

Weather seals and those kinds of features seem to be kept for the sports and pro usage cameras so I doubt we'll see that kind of build quality at this end of the scale for a long time, if ever.

The Ti built in flash is much more clunky than on the D60 and many other features also just feel a whole lot cheaper. I guess the 10D range is more in line with the current Elan film family.

Mirror lock-up makes a really noticeable difference for macro work with poor light (about the 1/60s to 1 second time frame)

paganini

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

08/20/2003 02:46:07 PM · #47

mirror lockup?

Essentially locks the mirror up before the exposure. You press the shutter button (or rather, the remote) once, the mirror locks. You press it the second time after some time has elapsed (no vibration) then the shutter moves. It allows slow exposure to not have to deal with the vibration from the mirror movements (hence, a sharper image). Very essential for landscape work.

Another big one that seems to be missing is dof preview.

Also, 300D doesn't have any custom functions that 10D gets. I like it when my focus button and metering are on separate buttons ,which drives other people that used my camera crazy but it allows me to focus and track movements before i press the shutter (and the mtering is done right before exposure).

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

possible with pretty much all of them.

Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Hey all you Canonites out there...can you tell me if it's possible to do manual focusing with any of the EF lenses? Also, what's all this hullaballo about mirror-lockup?