Crop: Before or After? - DPChallenge Forums

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

07/22/2007 12:59:33 AM · #2

Crop last. The customer may want a 5x7, an 8x10, an 11x14, who knows? I keep the full size, uncropped version, in a .PSD file so I can do anything I want with the picture later.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

07/22/2007 01:00:40 AM · #3

Originally posted by dwterry:

Crop last. The customer may want a 5x7, an 8x10, an 11x14, who knows? I keep the full size, uncropped version, in a .PSD file so I can do anything I want with the picture later.

Thats a good point, but let's consider it a situation where there won't be but one final image size...

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

07/22/2007 01:07:35 AM · #4

Hmmm... if I knew I was the only consumer of the image and I knew what I planned to do with it, yeah, it would save a lot of work if I cropped it first. Then I wouldn't have to photoshop the rest of the image!

Sunniee

Canon EOS-40D

07/22/2007 01:14:31 AM · #5

I still crop last... just in case I need to clone something from the cropped out portion...

pcody

Canon PowerShot G6

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

07/22/2007 12:57:21 PM · #6

I usually crop first. It's helps to visualize what I want to do in pp if I'm working on the picture as it will be presented. It saves time if I know that certain areas don't need any pp because they will not be in the final version.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/22/2007 01:16:11 PM · #7

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by dwterry:
Crop last. The customer may want a 5x7, an 8x10, an 11x14, who knows? I keep the full size, uncropped version, in a .PSD file so I can do anything I want with the picture later.

Thats a good point, but let's consider it a situation where there won't be but one final image size...

Unless you are woefully short of processor power or disk space, I'd still recommend cropping last. The few times I have edited the cropped image and had to go back and re-edit the full-sized version have convinced me that, like most "short-cuts," it ends up making the trip longer in the long run.

The only reason I'd crop first now is if I was up against a DPC submission deadline, with less than 15 minutes or so to go, since I do have an old/slow machine.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/22/2007 01:19:59 PM · #8

Originally posted by pcody:

Create a new layer and fill the outside area with black or gray where you plan to crop -- you can toggle the visibility on and off to help visualize the final version, while still editing the whole picture. You may change your mind about the exact crop position after seeing the editing; for example, you may choose to keep a little more background after successfully applying a blur filter.

07/22/2007 01:20:44 PM · #9

always first.

but I think that also depends on what kind of photos you usually take?

07/22/2007 01:33:19 PM · #10

Originally posted by GeneralE:

How do I toggle the visibility? I can't find that option.

07/22/2007 01:36:01 PM · #11

Originally posted by jrdawson:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Create a new layer and fill the outside area with black or gray where you plan to crop -- you can toggle the visibility on and off to help visualize the final version, while still editing the whole picture. You may change your mind about the exact crop position after seeing the editing; for example, you may choose to keep a little more background after successfully applying a blur filter.

How do I toggle the visibility? I can't find that option.

small eye in front of the layer in the layer-window.

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

07/22/2007 01:40:17 PM · #12

Originally posted by biteme:

Originally posted by jrdawson:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Create a new layer and fill the outside area with black or gray where you plan to crop -- you can toggle the visibility on and off to help visualize the final version, while still editing the whole picture. You may change your mind about the exact crop position after seeing the editing; for example, you may choose to keep a little more background after successfully applying a blur filter.

How do I toggle the visibility? I can't find that option.

small eye in front of the layer in the layer-window.

Oh, that one. But them you always seem this black border on your photo. I was hoping for a way to completely remove the area from view so it looks like you actually did the crop, not just hide parts of the photo.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

07/22/2007 01:47:35 PM · #13

First, because processing applies to that cut, not to a bunch of possible cuts, and it makes a [sometimes pronounced] difference in processing. It is that one picture I'm working on, not a bunch of possibilities.

But I don't sell pictures in different size options; if I did that, I'd have to alter the workflow.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

07/22/2007 02:06:22 PM · #14

Originally posted by ursula:

This is what I was thinking. A histogram changes after you apply a crop and manipulation of it should probably be done on the crop rather than the other way around...

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/22/2007 02:52:44 PM · #15

I crop first, then I curse myself because inevitably I need a different print size later. And I continue doing this because I am a dumbass.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

07/22/2007 02:55:01 PM · #16

Originally posted by jrdawson:

Here's another way -- you can also pre-visualize the crop using an alpha channel. The advantage of this is since your previsualization mask is an actual selection, you can always choose to crop at anytime to see what the crop looks like, and then immediately UNDO that action to restore the uncropped version.

-use the rectangular marquee to draw a rectangle where you plan to crop
-Select > Save Selection (give it a name, e.g. "crop")
-In the Channels Palette, make sure that the channel options for the alpha channel are set to "color indicates masked area" and set the color to something which contrasts with your image
-In the Channels palette, toggle visibility of the alpha channel with the same little eye icon as in the Layers Palette

You can now proceed to edit as usual, toggling the alpha channel's visibility whenever you want to pre-visualize the crop.

You can also change your crop by selecting the alpha channel as the active channel in Channels Palette, then selecting and adding to/subtracting from the mask by filling/clearing the selection.

When you are done editing:

-(I always save a copy first, so I have the final edited version in case I screw up or the computer crashes)

-Layers Palette > Flatten Image
-Select > Load Selection ("crop")
-Image > Crop
-Channels Palette > delete the alpha channel

You can now save in JPEG (or any other format which supports RGB color). Here are some screenshots which illustrate this method.

Mask/Selection Off:

Cropping Mask Visible:

Mask Options:

Selection to edit mask:

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

07/22/2007 03:14:45 PM · #17

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by jrdawson:
Oh, that one. But them you always seem this black border on your photo. I was hoping for a way to completely remove the area from view so it looks like you actually did the crop, not just hide parts of the photo.

Here's another way...

Doesn't that just replace a black border with a semi-transparent red one? Is there any way to make is completely dissapear without actually erasing the data?

xianart

Canon EOS-7D

07/22/2007 03:18:51 PM · #18

i don't crop at all - i compose full frame, and stick a white border on in the ratio needed.

Message edited by author 2007-07-22 15:19:02.

07/22/2007 03:35:42 PM · #19

Sweeeettttt!!!

So I found out how you are really supposed to do this:

Courtesy of: graphicssoft.about.com

Using the crop tool on the toolbox, select the region you want to crop to. Then from the option bar at the top, choose 'Hide' instead of the default 'Delete'. To bring back the full image, select Image > Reveal All from the menus.

This option is awesome, as it even remembers the masks you set up outside that region and brings them back once you restore it. So you can crop whenever you want, and you never lose any data.

07/22/2007 03:38:44 PM · #20

ok... but:

you've been working VERY hard on a photo, and have that magic-cropped part of the image still there. Will the adjustments made on the photo be visible on that part too? Otherwise that might be even a bigger pain..

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

07/22/2007 03:50:39 PM · #21

Originally posted by biteme:

I'm not sure what you're asking?

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

07/22/2007 03:50:56 PM · #22

Originally posted by xianart:

i don't crop at all - i compose full frame, and stick a white border on in the ratio needed.

He, he, yeah. So where did you get that square sensor?

aznym

Fujifilm X-T3

Fujifilm XF 23mm f/2 R WR

07/22/2007 03:54:30 PM · #23

If I am processing an image that I centainly know that I want to crop, I would process it first before deciding on how and where to crop.

When I process the way I want to, sometimes I see the image in a new light. Sometimes there are elements that I might want to get rid of or include depending on what I see after processing. I just feel it's a smarter way to do it. I try not to miss something in the frame because of a mistake.

edit to say: there are images that I crop before doing anything else because I had already decided on the crop before shooting it.

Message edited by author 2007-07-22 15:57:11.