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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Have I wasted my money?
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 07/03/2007 08:50:21 PM · #1
A couple of weeks ago, a guy at a camera shop advised me to get the Sigma 70-300. Though I didn't buy it at the time, I was seriously considering it. I feel totally lost with no lens going beyond the 55mm of the kit lens after having 10-12x zoom on my P&S cameras.

Then, a few days ago I found out that a second-hand dealer I know had some Canon lenses for sale. As her shop is in an area I don't feel safe going to, she agreed to meet me somewhere more suitable with them. Well I bought a Canon EF 75-300mm 1:4-5.6 II from her for less than half the price of the Sigma. As I met her late in the day, I was only able to take one shot at as speed at which I expected camera shake, so the result didn't look to bad. When I got home, however, I tried it out on a tripod, using timer and mirror lock-up, and the results look really horrible. Also, on a few occasions, while reviewing the shots, the lens went out of focus all by itself. Is this normal? I haven't encountered such a thing with the lenses I've used so far.

Here is 100% crop, comparing this lens(centre) to the 50mm 1.8(left) and the kit lens(right).


I also tried one or two shots using manual focus and they looked a little better, but still not good.

I fear that I'm stuck with a dud. My mother feels I should not phone to complain about it as she is someone we have fairly regular contact with. The dealer doesn't claim to know anything about cameras or lenses and I didn't ask for any guarantees that it would work, so I don't feel I have a right to complain either, yet I feel horrible about the wasted money. Other than contacting her, is there anything I can do with this lens?
 07/03/2007 08:56:09 PM · #2
Contact her, Be friendly and explain it the same way you did here. It can't hurt.
07/03/2007 08:58:12 PM · #3
Oops, I forgot to ask - assuming I can't use this lens, is the Sigma the guy recommended any good? Reasonably sharp in particular. And what about the Tamron? I've seen it advertised at a slightly higher price than the Sigma. The only significant different I've noticed in the specs is that the Tamron is a bit smaller and lighter, and I'm not keen on using anything too heavy. But the shop that has it isn't somewhere that I expect will no too much about the photographic equipment they sell and I'd rather stick to buying from people who know, especially after this mistake.
 07/03/2007 09:02:37 PM · #4
The dealer would know that you are a valued customer. Tell her this isn't something you are happy with, but offer to swap it for a different lens. She gets to keep the money and you can get a better lens for yourself. Tell her to bring them around when you have some time to try them out. Then, if none of them are better than this one, you can show her the pictures and explain why you can't accept any of them.
 07/03/2007 09:18:39 PM · #5
Actually cameras isn't something she goes in for in a big way. All she had was two old film cameras, both with 28-80, one with the lens I bought and the other with an 80-200. She was trying to get rid of the stuff at cost because it isn't something she can sell. So I don't see any prospect of being able to swap them.

And actually she isn't someone I do much business with, but someone I come into contact with fairly frequently and who could give me a bad name with people who matter if she felt I was treating her unfairly. I just don't feel it's right to risk my reputation for a relatively small amount of money.
 07/03/2007 09:46:53 PM · #6
We really like our Sigma 70-300. Granted there are much better lenses out there but for the price its got good bang per buck. We have done quite well at DPC with that lens (and should have a new top image scorer for it closing out tonight). Thumbs up from us.
 07/03/2007 10:00:08 PM · #7
Is the Sigma sharp enough for stock photos?

To be quite honest, I'm still struggling to get used to the image quality of my dSLR - everything looks softer than I would expect it to. The day I bought my 50mm 1.8, I asked the guy if my camera was focusing okay because so few photos looked in focus. It's been a bit better with that lens than the kit lens because I've been watching shutter speed more closely, but I still feel my photos aren't what they should be.

Are the other two sections in my cropped image acceptably sharp? Even they look a little soft to me. Granted they were taken in low light, perhaps I should test everything again in brighter conditions. But that thing of the 75-300 losing focus seems weird too.
 07/03/2007 10:55:32 PM · #8
I have the Sigma 70-300 and I love it. The photo below was taken with it. It seems to be fairly sharp. There was not a whole lot of editing done to it. It is a little slower to focus because it uses the internal focus motor and not one in the lens. The speed difference is definitely noticeable going from a USM lens.



ETA: I don't see that lens listed on DPC. It is from an old film camera. right? If it is the quality will definitely be lower then something done with digital. Film is much better quality then a 10MP camera. I suspect that is the issue.

Message edited by author 2007-07-03 22:58:34.
 07/03/2007 10:59:55 PM · #9
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Is the Sigma sharp enough for stock photos?

To be quite honest, I'm still struggling to get used to the image quality of my dSLR - everything looks softer than I would expect it to. The day I bought my 50mm 1.8, I asked the guy if my camera was focusing okay because so few photos looked in focus. It's been a bit better with that lens than the kit lens because I've been watching shutter speed more closely, but I still feel my photos aren't what they should be.


Bear in mind that the dSLR is basically designed for you to do the sharpening in PP. You can crank up the sharpness in-camera, but if you're shooting JPG then you can't tone it back down. Better to keep sharpness low and then adjust it in PP, where you can control it. There are lots of techniques for this, you just need to get on the learning curve and study them.

R.
 07/03/2007 11:24:11 PM · #10
It's not mentioned, but you reference camera shake. Is this the IS version? If it is, it might explain the blurred photos on the tripod. The IS doesn't work well on a tripod. Something about it trying to over correct.

On the other hand, I heard IS disables itself if the camera is set to mirror lockup. I also didn't think the rebel line had mirror lockup.

If it's not the IS version, disreguard.

As for the sigma lens. I would save your money and get some L glass.
 07/04/2007 08:37:49 AM · #11
No, Nullix, the lens is not stablised. And I can't see myself affording L lenses anytime soon. Besides they seem to be rather large and heavy, and I'm small, so I don't think I'd be able to cope with carrying them around.

Bear_Music I realise that I should expect to do sharpening in PP, but from sample photos on dpreview and similar sites, other cameras do seem to produce sharper results. However, that is an issue I will have to live with. But what I've seen of this lens so far doesn't seem acceptable.

And I still want to know whether it is acceptable for a lens to move totally out of focus when I haven't even touched it, only pressed the review button after taking the shot.
 07/04/2007 09:11:11 AM · #12
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
And I still want to know whether it is acceptable for a lens to move totally out of focus when I haven't even touched it, only pressed the review button after taking the shot.

I had a version of that lens for a while, and while it was never super-sharp, I didn't have the problem you're describing. It sounds strange that the lens would go out of focus on it's own like that, when mounted to a tripod. You'd usually have to move it from it's original location to disrupt the focus.
 07/04/2007 09:38:32 AM · #13
I took all of the photos in this series:



and I have a BUNCH of flower photos like this:



that I took with my sigma 70-300 (just for some examples).

If you decide to get it, you will not regret it :)
 07/04/2007 11:04:14 AM · #14
You have shown us images, but no info on aperture, lighting, shutter speed, etc.

You wont' get super sharp images at higher ISOs, focus will not be accurate under bad (low) lighting, tripod use can show mirror shake at 1/10-1/50 second range...etc.

go outside in the middle of the day, get the shutter speed at 1/500 or more (preferrably over 1/1000) and shoot some stuff at F4 to F8 range, handheld at ISO 100-400 range and then check the results. Shoot a brick wall at an angle with a mark on the wall (a post it note works) - use AF center point on the post it and shoot several shots, refocusing each time. Then check to see what's up.

This lens may be a bit soft over 200mm, but should be about the same as your kit lens otherwise.

First thing to so in PP is USM 300%, .3, 0, then edit and do another round of sharpening for web use (repeat above or 50% .9 1 works well). Depends on the subject, but those settings should get you acceptable sharp for most things without being too much.
 07/04/2007 11:08:06 AM · #15
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
You have shown us images, but no info on aperture, lighting, shutter speed, etc.


Not for nothing, Prof. but the image notes say that f/ 5.6 was used for each of the images.
 07/04/2007 01:23:04 PM · #16
If you shot at 5.6, that's close to wide open. Low end lenses like that won't be setting any sharpness records, especially wide open or close to it. As long as you don't make huge prints, in the real world you can probably squeeze great looking web sized images out of that lens, especially if they don't depend on sharpness across the frame (like portraits).

Just sharpen the shots from that lens at 300/.3/0 in USM and go from there... If it was half the price of the sigma, that's a bargain, so hang on to it.
 07/04/2007 02:36:48 PM · #17
For outstanding value for money you might want to look at this, reviews have been very favourable considering its a chepo lens. I have the 75-300 III - its ok around f8 in decent light but to be honest its not the greatest lens Canon has brought out, the usm is sooo slooowwww, but it was cheap!

Tamron 55-200mm

also have a look here
//www.dpchallenge.com/lens.php?LENS_ID=1296

It's on my shopping list, once I get my 300D repaired or replaced depending on how my insurance claim goes!

Mike

Message edited by author 2007-07-04 14:39:23.
 07/04/2007 08:20:44 PM · #18
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
If you shot at 5.6, that's close to wide open. Low end lenses like that won't be setting any sharpness records, especially wide open or close to it. As long as you don't make huge prints, in the real world you can probably squeeze great looking web sized images out of that lens, especially if they don't depend on sharpness across the frame (like portraits).

Just sharpen the shots from that lens at 300/.3/0 in USM and go from there... If it was half the price of the sigma, that's a bargain, so hang on to it.


If web size images is the best I can expect, that's really not worthwhile. Someday I may find myself taken a really 'good' image, only to find that it's so soft it's useless for anything but DPC.

Okay 5.6 isn't great, but I did try one or two using a small aperture and they weren't much use either. I just didn't have comparative shots of those for all three lenses. I will try using it in better light though.

But the thing of it losing focus really freaked me out. I'd take a shot, then press the review button, and while reviewing shots I'd hear this noise coming from the lens as it shifted focus. I'd then look through the viewfinder at the scene I'd just taken, and see a total blur. It didn't happen after every shot, but it happened a few times and it just didn't seem right.
 07/04/2007 08:54:32 PM · #19
That focus shift thing makes me think it might be defective after all. Did you try cleaning the metal contacts on the lens and the body, just in case? Probably won't do any good, but...

You could also shoot a ruler at a 45' angle (leaning up against a wall) and see if the focus is in front of/behind where you set it. If you can see where the focus point is, but it's still soft, that's not good. If it's just front or back, you can get it calibrated if you want to bother.
 07/04/2007 09:03:13 PM · #20
MadMan2k I haven't tried anything. I'm a bit scared to try messing with cleaning it. Not sure I know what I'm doing as I'm still so new to SLRs. Perhaps I'll give that ruler thing a try, though I'm not sure it's worth the bother. I think I might have to write this one off to experience and not buy used equipment again unless it's from someone who knows what they're selling.

The dealer who recommended the Sigma lens sells used lenses too, but they offer a 3 month guarantee, so at least if I bought there I'd know I was getting what I paid for, but I guess that's the only place I'd trust after this. Not that I've bought any used lenses there (only my brand new 50mm 1.8).
 07/04/2007 09:13:25 PM · #21
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Other than contacting her, is there anything I can do with this lens?


Ebay
 07/04/2007 09:30:44 PM · #22
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Other than contacting her, is there anything I can do with this lens?


Ebay


I don't think anyone would want to order it and pay postage from South Africa. Besides, I would feel guilty selling something I know is rubbish.

Initially I was wondering whether it was worth getting it fixed, but after reading that it's soft when it works properly, I can't see that it's worth throwing more good money into a lens that will never be good for more than web shots.
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