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06/20/2007 12:01:30 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Wildcard:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
They are getting better at a rate faster than the general drop :-) |
Any thoughts on why some are getting better faster? |
In a nutshell, the DPL. teams are helping members improve their scores. And that's a good thing. But, I still believe it should either be diffuse (with ore challenges as posthumous suggested) or moved to separate challenges.
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06/20/2007 12:02:57 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Wildcard:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by dudephil:
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
It's not dramatic, but the average vote over each challenge has decreased on average. Which for some people could appear as considerable drops in personal averages. |
How do explain those whose averages are going up? |
The site is run on averages, so because the average score is staying around the same and/or dropping slightly, there has to be some lower scores and some higher scores. You just happen to be on of those that has increased. People have pointed out that the scores look about the same now as they have, so its logical that for every person saying theirs has gone down, some have to go up.
Whats interesting in the Lowcivicman's stats (which I'll wait to see the whole spreadsheet) it seems that that as the # of entries has increased (effect of the DPL), the # of votes hasn't increased at the same percentage. Which would mean that the trolls or any that had an inclination to vote lower would have more of an impact. It doesn't mean that there's a conspiracy, it just means that maybe we need to look at the issue differently. |
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06/20/2007 12:04:22 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Can someone please explain to me what a "DPC friendly" photo is? I'm seeing this phrase coming up more and more.
Thank you! |
Let me see if I can find scalvert's thread, before I head out. I have a shoot in a bit. But, generally there is a formula that does score well here.
Others of us are lucky to get a few high scores out of non-DPC shots and maintain our "integrity" :-) Nothing wrong with a DPC shot... don't throw rocks. :-)
Win a ribbon
Message edited by author 2007-06-20 12:06:41.
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06/20/2007 12:07:03 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Can someone please explain to me what a "DPC friendly" photo is? I'm seeing this phrase coming up more and more.
Thank you! |
Let me see if I can find scalvert's thread, before I head out. I have a shoot in a bit. But, generally there is a formula that does score well here.
Others of us are lucky to get a few high scores out of non-DPC shots and maintain our "integrity" :-) Nothing wrong with a DPC shot... don't throw rocks. :-)
Win a ribbon |
Thanks Leroy!!
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06/20/2007 12:08:11 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by Wildcard:
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
They are getting better at a rate faster than the general drop :-) |
Any thoughts on why some are getting better faster? |
Possibly having 5-6 people (team members) reviewing your images before entering the challenge and telling you which they like best and what improvements could be made post processing wise. Or how about having 5-6 people brainstorm on what pictures might fit into a challenge better and those with weaker ideas using the 2nd or 3rd choice from one of their team members.
Tim |
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06/20/2007 12:08:46 PM · #81 |
You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all of the time..
In the words of a great young photographer "Take some damn Pictures"
Don't matter what happens the important thing is to try to improve as a photographer and enjoy the art of taking photographs..
I doubt the DPL has changed anything |
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06/20/2007 12:12:37 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Can someone please explain to me what a "DPC friendly" photo is? I'm seeing this phrase coming up more and more.
Thank you! |
Over-Saturated, Over-Processed and usually of a landscape, flower or back lit smoke!
;-) |
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06/20/2007 12:15:02 PM · #83 |
What was the BIG MISTAKE !???
Originally posted by Chinabun:
me too! and i dont usually vote and havent voted since last yr probably. i felt spunky today and voted on Macro, BIG MISTAKE. I'm not voting anymore.
Originally posted by dudephil:
Do you really think it brings down scores Leroy? My average has actually went up since DPL because I have been entering DPC friendly shots. |
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06/20/2007 12:17:54 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
In a nutshell, the DPL. teams are helping members improve their scores. And that's a good thing. |
Thank you, although whether getting more DPC friendly is necessarily a good thing is a whole 'nother subject.
But, I still believe it should either be diffuse (with ore challenges as posthumous suggested) or moved to separate challenges.
I'll agree there could be some merit in that and I can see why people that aren't a part of the DPL would be feeling overwhelmed by it, I can also see why their scores may be suffering in comparison. Not because of any conspiracy but just because of the team coaching and helping to choose photos.
Message edited by author 2007-06-20 12:19:14. |
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06/20/2007 12:21:20 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by wsl:
The site is run on averages, so because the average score is staying around the same and/or dropping slightly, there has to be some lower scores and some higher scores. You just happen to be on of those that has increased. People have pointed out that the scores look about the same now as they have, so its logical that for every person saying theirs has gone down, some have to go up.
Whats interesting in the Lowcivicman's stats (which I'll wait to see the whole spreadsheet) it seems that that as the # of entries has increased (effect of the DPL), the # of votes hasn't increased at the same percentage. Which would mean that the trolls or any that had an inclination to vote lower would have more of an impact. It doesn't mean that there's a conspiracy, it just means that maybe we need to look at the issue differently. |
Yep.
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06/20/2007 12:30:17 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by idnic:
Couple of things.
1 - the DPL season is only 4 weeks
2 - Top scores are still in the 7s so can't be the "vote 'em all low" conspiracy you're referring to
3 - More entries means more people will end up in the Low/Middle ranges, thus more people dissatisfied with their scores
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I didn't read the whole thread, but I think Cindi hit the nail on the head - especially point #3.
And to address Lowcivicman and wsl's recent post - if the perceived increase in the relative impact of the troll vote affects us all equally/randomly - it makes no difference. Besides - who believes in trolls? =D |
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06/20/2007 12:31:52 PM · #87 |
My transition entry started out with a 7.0 hovered around 6.7-6.8 all week the last 1.5 days of voting I ended up with a 6.5 not sure if that has anything to do with the DPL or not. But it certainly was a slap in the face.
I agree with the OP the DPL should be a seperate challenge.
And to make it fair to all teams it should be 1 challenge for all.
Any other league in this world is formed around the same game on a regulation playing field. Each team engaged in competition is playing on the same field. It maybe home field advantage to one team or the other, But they do not get to randomly select which field they play at.
If you want to make this a true league. You have to have a league meeting. Vote on the Rules as a league. At least one rep from Each team should have a voice in this.
You can then make a schedule. Set up the challenges themes well in advance. This would give everyone a heads up for ideas would improve overall quality of entries and make the league better in more ways than one.
The way it is set up right now is like The Yankees saying hey! Lets go play the White Sox at Miller Park because We can hit alot of homers in that field.
As for the team voting etc... I am going to stay out of that one because until there is concrete evidence, arguing about it is a waste of time.
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06/20/2007 12:36:24 PM · #88 |
might be an interesting poll :)
I know I haven't entered a challenge or voted in awhile.... just because the numbers of entries has grown so much.... If I enter a challenge.... I want to vote on it, if I vote on a challenge... I want to vote on all the photos..... I just haven't had the time to do the larger challenges :( (Darn job keeps getting in the way.... hmmmmm, maybe I should quit :P )
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06/20/2007 12:38:48 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Others of us are lucky to get a few high scores out of non-DPC shots and maintain our "integrity" :-) Nothing wrong with a DPC shot... don't throw rocks. :-)
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Ahh yes. Sitting on a couch; half your ass hanging out with cheese on your upper lip. Got to love the dignity! |
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06/20/2007 12:38:48 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
And to make it fair to all teams it should be 1 challenge for all.
Any other league in this world is formed around the same game on a regulation playing field. Each team engaged in competition is playing on the same field. It maybe home field advantage to one team or the other, But they do not get to randomly select which field they play at. |
I don't understand this. We are all playing on the same fields. If you made it a single challenge each week, THAT would be more unfair I think; give us a landscape challenge and I have an edge, give us a portrait challenge and Librodo has an edge, etc etc. The current system is set up so every individual has a shot at playing to his/her strengths each week. There's nothing "random" about it.
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
If you want to make this a true league. You have to have a league meeting. Vote on the Rules as a league. At least one rep from Each team should have a voice in this. |
When WPL was first set up, the rules/structure were tweaked based on participant feedback from the get-go. When DPC absorbed WPL and created DPL, there was a long-running thread seeking feedback on rules and structure. Seems like a good example of working witht he participants to me.
R.
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06/20/2007 12:39:19 PM · #91 |
I'd like to add:
Troll conspiracy threads have been around here forever. People who aren't getting the scores think they they deserve are looking for something to blame. So it's little wonder that when the DPL appears, it has become a target for new theories.
Peeking at the averages from these past 5 weeks and before, it's hard to see an actual, overall shift in voting tendencies. There's just not statistically significant evidence to support claims that the DPL affects voting. |
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06/20/2007 12:41:38 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Can someone please explain to me what a "DPC friendly" photo is? I'm seeing this phrase coming up more and more.
Thank you! |
It's like when someone asks "how are you?" but they don't really mean it. They're just being friendly.
DPC-friendly photos don't really mean anything. They're just being friendly. |
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06/20/2007 12:42:37 PM · #93 |
| If you separe now the dpl from dpc there will be one half on members that will go on dpl and one half that will go un dpc. Where you recycle your second choice? on dpl or on dpc? the photo quality will go down, the votes will go down, the peoples will go out....... now dpl is part of dpc we can only open a serious discussion on the rules and the biggest involvement of members. |
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06/20/2007 12:44:10 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Can someone please explain to me what a "DPC friendly" photo is? I'm seeing this phrase coming up more and more.
Thank you! |
It's like when someone asks "how are you?" but they don't really mean it. They're just being friendly.
DPC-friendly photos don't really mean anything. They're just being friendly. |
huh? what the....???
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06/20/2007 12:45:10 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by smurfguy:
I'd like to add:
Troll conspiracy threads have been around here forever. People who aren't getting the scores think they they deserve are looking for something to blame. So it's little wonder that when the DPL appears, it has become a target for new theories.
Peeking at the averages from these past 5 weeks and before, it's hard to see an actual, overall shift in voting tendencies. There's just not statistically significant evidence to support claims that the DPL affects voting. |
You are correct. There is not one bit of evidence to support this theory. Look at the previous scores of each photographer in this thread alone. What was their excuse for shooting in the fours and fives when the was no DPL?
Message edited by author 2007-06-20 12:45:24. |
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06/20/2007 12:49:20 PM · #96 |
I just think that if everyone has to set out to meet the same challenge. You are all being dealt the same hand.
Right now like you said if it is a landscape challenge you have an advantage, But so would Larus and a big handful of people here. If it is portrait Could be Judi Cindi or Larus lol
But if you made the challenge for example. Eggs. you would all have to find a creative way to present Eggs. No one would have the Egg Advantage because they live on a chicken farm etc... When people go to vote on the DPL images the images would all be in the same place. Voted on and score in the order they finish.
Right now you are putting non league photos into the mix. It can hurt or help your score. But for certain is not always fair to everyone in the game.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
And to make it fair to all teams it should be 1 challenge for all.
Any other league in this world is formed around the same game on a regulation playing field. Each team engaged in competition is playing on the same field. It maybe home field advantage to one team or the other, But they do not get to randomly select which field they play at. |
I don't understand this. We are all playing on the same fields. If you made it a single challenge each week, THAT would be more unfair I think; give us a landscape challenge and I have an edge, give us a portrait challenge and Librodo has an edge, etc etc. The current system is set up so every individual has a shot at playing to his/her strengths each week. There's nothing "random" about it.
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
If you want to make this a true league. You have to have a league meeting. Vote on the Rules as a league. At least one rep from Each team should have a voice in this. |
When WPL was first set up, the rules/structure were tweaked based on participant feedback from the get-go. When DPC absorbed WPL and created DPL, there was a long-running thread seeking feedback on rules and structure. Seems like a good example of working witht he participants to me.
R. |
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06/20/2007 12:51:12 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
Originally posted by smurfguy:
I'd like to add:
Troll conspiracy threads have been around here forever. People who aren't getting the scores think they they deserve are looking for something to blame. So it's little wonder that when the DPL appears, it has become a target for new theories.
Peeking at the averages from these past 5 weeks and before, it's hard to see an actual, overall shift in voting tendencies. There's just not statistically significant evidence to support claims that the DPL affects voting. |
You are correct. There is not one bit of evidence to support this theory. Look at the previous scores of each photographer in this thread alone. What was their excuse for shooting in the fours and fives when the was no DPL? |
I for example always submit something even when I know that the photo isn't good. for me dpc is even an occasion of learning. It's evident that I like when i have a good photo but I know that I often will have a 4/5 but this isn't a problem for me.
When I had a good photo the good result there was! |
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06/20/2007 12:53:25 PM · #98 |
Quite aside from the DPL, I think there are two different trends:
1) For any given shot, I think the score trends downward over time. I look at some of the highest-scoring shots from 2003 and think "wow - that's a lot higher score than it would get today."
2) Members are getting better overall, so the top scores might be increasing slightly.
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06/20/2007 12:54:42 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Can someone please explain to me what a "DPC friendly" photo is? I'm seeing this phrase coming up more and more.
Thank you! |
It's like when someone asks "how are you?" but they don't really mean it. They're just being friendly.
DPC-friendly photos don't really mean anything. They're just being friendly. |
LOL I love it! That needs to be framed and hung somewhere. |
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06/20/2007 12:59:36 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by smurfguy:
Originally posted by idnic:
Couple of things.
1 - the DPL season is only 4 weeks
2 - Top scores are still in the 7s so can't be the "vote 'em all low" conspiracy you're referring to
3 - More entries means more people will end up in the Low/Middle ranges, thus more people dissatisfied with their scores
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I didn't read the whole thread, but I think Cindi hit the nail on the head - especially point #3.
And to address Lowcivicman and wsl's recent post - if the perceived increase in the relative impact of the troll vote affects us all equally/randomly - it makes no difference. Besides - who believes in trolls? =D |
Exactly! More scores in the middle ranges.
Personal observation>>> When I look at MY low scoring entries in a detached, "objective" manner their deficiencies are glaring. It's the resulting conclusion that is hard to accept. |
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