Separate DPL from regular challenges

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

06/20/2007 06:13:22 PM · #151

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

If ya'll want to continue to play attack the OP, go for it, I'm not going to respond. Say whatever you want. It is YOUR opinion.

If you'd like to actually have a discussion I shall continue.

It's not attacking someone to disagree with them and make honest counter-arguments.

fotomann_forever

06/20/2007 06:22:24 PM · #152

Originally posted by Artyste:

It's not attacking someone to disagree with them and make honest counter-arguments.

No not at all. Just certain tactics are a bit counter-productive to discussion of the topic.

wsl

Nikon D80

06/20/2007 06:24:56 PM · #153

I joined into the discussion because it is something that I think effects all of us, even if not to a huge degree now, as the site grows it will be even more of an issue. But since SC has said Langdon is going to run the stats and it'll be discussed after the season is over, thats good enough for me for now.

As far as the mentorship goes, thats good to hear. But being new myself , especially from the east coast where being polite is optional lol, I would never have posted to ask for someone to give me a hand or give me some ideas on what to do with a photo. I know everyone seems helpful in the posts and the comments have helped after the fact, but I wouldn't ever just randomly PM someone and ask for help. Tutorials, how to's are clear as day though.

Back on topic, I never thought of it as competing against the DPL, but perception is that during the DPL season, the avg score goes down overall. Maybe its because people see themselves with lower votes so they vote lower, or just vote harsher because more is at stake or there could be a million reasons. I'll wait till after the season when we can all take a better look at things with the numbers available.

06/20/2007 06:25:00 PM · #154

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by Artyste:

It's not attacking someone to disagree with them and make honest counter-arguments.

No not at all. Just certain tactics are a bit counter-productive to discussion of the topic.

You'll have to be more specific. The discussion I see is one person having an issue with something that the majority of people have already stated isn't a problem. Not entirely sure what anything anyone has said to this point is counter-productive.

06/20/2007 06:26:40 PM · #155

Originally posted by wsl:

Posted stats to this point have already shown that the perceived drop in average statistics is untrue on a general level.

BHuseman

Sigma 150-600mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM | S

06/20/2007 06:30:16 PM · #156

I can honestly say that since the DPL started my images and scores have gone up. All but one of my top images has been replaced. I have has some that have scored low as well, but I have seen why that is. One of them was intentional and I take the blame for that anyway. But the point is, the DPL has helped my scores go up, and also helped me to get better images submitted.

But I also believe that it has hurt me at the same time. I do think that I could have eeked out that exta .XXXX that would have finally gotten me that 6 that I have deisred since joining. I think that some people have purposefully voted lower to increase the chances of their team winning.

In the end I look at the big picture. My photos have gotten better and I am taking photos that I am happier with. That in reality is all that matters.

I agree witha previous poster that said that they way it is now works because you have more options for photographers to submit too. If the DPL required only Macro shots one week then I would be out. I don't have the equipment to compete in a macro challenge. I tried it this week and failed to get a shot worth submitting. Conversely if they had a sports only shot others might be out due to a lack of available sports, or the proper equipment to get a DPC friendly (sorry had to use the cathc phrase of the week) shot.

Bottom line is it is working. Look at the amount of entries over the first couple of weeks of DPL. It was amazing. Yes scorese may seem a little lower, but for many of us scores have gone up. I look at the seed averages and the season averages of my teammates and most of them are higher. That tells me that the DPL worked. Sure maybe not as much or as higher as we wish, but is that reason enough to gripe about the DPL?

I think not....

wsl

Nikon D80

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

06/20/2007 06:34:06 PM · #157

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by wsl:
I joined into the discussion because it is something that I think effects all of us, even if not to a huge degree now, as the site grows it will be even more of an issue. But since SC has said Langdon is going to run the stats and it'll be discussed after the season is over, thats good enough for me for now.

As far as the mentorship goes, thats good to hear. But being new myself , especially from the east coast where being polite is optional lol, I would never have posted to ask for someone to give me a hand or give me some ideas on what to do with a photo. I know everyone seems helpful in the posts and the comments have helped after the fact, but I wouldn't ever just randomly PM someone and ask for help. Tutorials, how to's are clear as day though.

Back on topic, I never thought of it as competing against the DPL, but perception is that during the DPL season, the avg score goes down overall. Maybe its because people see themselves with lower votes so they vote lower, or just vote harsher because more is at stake or there could be a million reasons. I'll wait till after the season when we can all take a better look at things with the numbers available.

Posted stats to this point have already shown that the perceived drop in average statistics is untrue on a general level.

Actually it showed the # of entries and # of votes both go up during DPL seasons, but the ratio of votes doesn't match the # of entries, so entries aren't getting as many votes thus making 1 low or high vote make a more dramatic change. So some might see slightly higher scores, which a few have pointed out, while others will notice slightly lower scores. Again, until we see all the stats for every DPL vs non-DPL challenge i'm going to hold off and wait :)

06/20/2007 06:34:09 PM · #158

Take it for what it is but Scott is the man and he has been doing this longer than anyone.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/20/2007 06:38:09 PM · #159

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Take it for what it is but Scott is the man and he has been doing this longer than anyone.

Ah, well, this makes more of a case than what was previously posted then. As what I saw concluded that it wasn't making much of a difference at all.

Although to blame it entirely on DPL might be a stretch... I still say it's just the fact that more people are submitting crap just to get something in :) (that's what I've been doing! lol)

Message edited by author 2007-06-20 18:38:24.

bod

06/20/2007 06:44:29 PM · #160

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Take it for what it is but Scott is the man and he has been doing this longer than anyone.

Now look at his entire challenge history and see that he actually had an above average (by his standards) run in the run up to the DPL.

Lies, damn lies and statistics ; )

ETA: Please draw the same graph for

De Sousa

Message edited by author 2007-06-20 18:47:38.

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

06/20/2007 06:45:10 PM · #161

DPL forces people to enter challenges even when they don't have good shots...so there's a lot more "crap" submitted just because they feel the need to submit...No conspiracy here...Pure logic and common sense.

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/20/2007 06:46:31 PM · #162

Originally posted by Artyste:

I still say it's just the fact that more people are submitting crap just to get something in :) (that's what I've been doing! lol)

Did this in the last season myself. And if you have ~500 people forcing themselves to enter at least one challenge a week...

06/20/2007 06:48:31 PM · #163

Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by Artyste:
I still say it's just the fact that more people are submitting crap just to get something in :) (that's what I've been doing! lol)

Did this in the last season myself. And if you have ~500 people forcing themselves to enter at least one challenge a week...

:nod:

Doesn't take a genius really.

06/20/2007 06:53:50 PM · #164

Originally posted by bod:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Take it for what it is but Scott is the man and he has been doing this longer than anyone.

Now look at his entire challenge history and see that he actually had an above average (by his standards) run in the run up to the DPL.

Lies, damn lies and statistics ; )

ETA: Please draw the same graph for De Sousa

It's Scott's and I am sure he does not know I posted this. However in the case of De Sousa there is always an anomaly. :-D

06/20/2007 06:54:54 PM · #165

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by bod:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Take it for what it is but Scott is the man and he has been doing this longer than anyone.

Now look at his entire challenge history and see that he actually had an above average (by his standards) run in the run up to the DPL.

Lies, damn lies and statistics ; )

ETA: Please draw the same graph for De Sousa

It's Scott's and I am sure he does not know I posted this. However in the case of De Sousa there is always an anomaly. :-D

Wait.. are these Scott's personal scores, or the Challenge Averages being graphed here?

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

06/20/2007 06:56:00 PM · #166

Originally posted by Artyste:

Wait.. are these Scott's personal scores, or the Challenge Averages being graphed here?

I believe they are Scott's.

ETA: But I am not sure. I will PM him.

Message edited by author 2007-06-20 18:56:43.

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

06/20/2007 06:57:42 PM · #167

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Take it for what it is but Scott is the man and he has been doing this longer than anyone.

I'm no graph reader but how does this equate to an almost .2 drop? The average for the first 12 challenges is just under 5.6 while the average for the next nine looks closer to 5.5 than 5.4 to me. Therefore there has been roughly a .1 drop in average scores since the inception of the DPL.

Holy shit! .1 more or less? Let's burn this site to the ground!

neophyte

Nikon D810

06/20/2007 06:58:41 PM · #168

Originally posted by doctornick:

Common sense.... I concur...a 4.5 is better than a zero for your team. I like the increased participation but feel that entries should be limited every once in a while to those who give more votes than they recieve...

06/20/2007 06:59:16 PM · #169

PM sent!

06/20/2007 06:59:28 PM · #170

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Wait.. are these Scott's personal scores, or the Challenge Averages being graphed here?

I believe they are Scott's.

ETA: But I am not sure. I will PM him.

If they are Scott's personal scores, then it doesn't mean one single thing. If they are challenge averages, then it means pretty much what some of us have been getting at.. that more crap is being entered by more people entering for the sake of having to have something entered ;)

What would be more telling are the averages of the top 10, and bottom 10, over the course of every challenge, I think.