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06/20/2007 11:13:24 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by bucket:
Because it is better to have a site grow and become and become extremely popular and sell it like myspace or utube, than to water down your value... |
That's just an absurd statement! |
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06/20/2007 11:15:58 AM · #52 |
| DPC is a learning site and DPL is the crash course. |
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06/20/2007 11:16:17 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by LanceW:
Originally posted by bucket:
Because it is better to have a site grow and become and become extremely popular and sell it like myspace or utube, than to water down your value... |
That's just an absurd statement! |
yeah, especially with one too many "become"...:) |
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06/20/2007 11:20:29 AM · #54 |
You know the funny thing about all this is 50% of you will say there is nothing wrong with the DPL and 50% of you will say there is something wrong with it.
I am on the 50% side......
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06/20/2007 11:21:54 AM · #55 |
Kumbaya, my lord. Kumbaya.
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06/20/2007 11:22:17 AM · #56 |
I think that the only wrong thing is that for many teams vanish next week :)
Message edited by author 2007-06-20 11:23:17. |
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06/20/2007 11:22:53 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by idnic:
Kumbaya, my lord. Kumbaya. |
Joan Baez song??????? |
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06/20/2007 11:23:51 AM · #58 |
yeah you got a point. AND BTW I am on the 50% side that believes there is something fishy going on with the DPL.
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06/20/2007 11:26:31 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by Lowcivicman99:
yeah you got a point. AND BTW I am on the 50% side that believes there is something fishy going on with the DPL. |
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
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06/20/2007 11:28:52 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
Originally posted by Lowcivicman99:
yeah you got a point. AND BTW I am on the 50% side that believes there is something fishy going on with the DPL. |
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
mmm should be interesting a statistical approach to the question. As example the 10 challenges of the dpl with others challenges. |
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06/20/2007 11:30:18 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
It's not dramatic, but the average vote over each challenge has decreased on average. Which for some people could appear as considerable drops in personal averages.
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06/20/2007 11:31:16 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by dudephil:
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
It's not dramatic, but the average vote over each challenge has decreased on average. Which for some people could appear as considerable drops in personal averages. |
Always I tell that the decrease is -0.5 |
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06/20/2007 11:33:08 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by Rino63:
Originally posted by dudephil:
Originally posted by Lowcivicman99:
yeah you got a point. AND BTW I am on the 50% side that believes there is something fishy going on with the DPL. |
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
mmm should be interesting a statistical approach to the question. As example the 10 challenges of the dpl with others challenges. |
I already did it to the Transitions challenge:
Transitions:
Transitions II
Jun. 6th 2007 - Jun. 13th 2007
High score 7.5705
Average 5.4891
Median 5.4902
Lowest 2.9265
Transitions I (in 2002 when no DPL existed)
High score 7.4710
Average 5.2550
Median 5.3137
Lowest 2.4090
Now look at Candid IV
High 7.0135
Average 5.4474
Median 5.4418
Low 3.5581
Take a lok at Candid III
High 6.9000
Average 5.1267
Median 5.1651
Low 2.8128
As you can see, the scores have actually went up. Weird isn't it?
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06/20/2007 11:35:40 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
As you can see, the scores have actually went up. Weird isn't it? |
Compare to more recent challenges, before DPL started. Take an average of each sample and see what ya get?
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06/20/2007 11:36:06 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by dudephil:
Originally posted by Rino63:
Originally posted by dudephil:
Originally posted by Lowcivicman99:
yeah you got a point. AND BTW I am on the 50% side that believes there is something fishy going on with the DPL. |
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
mmm should be interesting a statistical approach to the question. As example the 10 challenges of the dpl with others challenges. |
I already did it to the Transitions challenge:
Transitions:
Transitions II
Jun. 6th 2007 - Jun. 13th 2007
High score 7.5705
Average 5.4891
Median 5.4902
Lowest 2.9265
Transitions I (in 2002 when no DPL existed)
High score 7.4710
Average 5.2550
Median 5.3137
Lowest 2.4090
Now look at Candid IV
High 7.0135
Average 5.4474
Median 5.4418
Low 3.5581
Take a lok at Candid III
High 6.9000
Average 5.1267
Median 5.1651
Low 2.8128
As you can see, the scores have actually went up. Weird isn't it? |
how many members there was on dpc in 2002? how many of that members are now on dpc? I think that this data aren't a good comparition. We need of a study on last year contests. Remember that the dpl there was before of his integration on dpc and i remember that some thread there was even last year..... |
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06/20/2007 11:36:21 AM · #66 |
Competition is good. If you're into it, its going to force you to try better. I'm not in DPL since I joined after the season started and I have no comparison to the past, so I can only go by past experience in similiar league events.
I can see where Leroy is coming from. And its not screaming conspiracy, drama or cheating. I think our member base is mature enough to be above that, but let's face it, the community you've had in the past, is going to be changing as the site continues to grow. Growth is good, but it brings along with it new challenges, both to the integrity of the site and to the core on which it was founded.
Right away the first thing that comes to mind with more challenges is more votes. More votes makes me cringe. There's 3 challenges to vote on currently, and if you vote on all, thats 756 votes/comments. Say the challenges were doubled, and teams were assigned to one of the 4 challenges (instead of the normal 2) but they and they're opponent for the week were assigned to the same challenge and not allowed to vote on it? So besides the member & FS entries, the open challenges would cut voting in half. 676 votes you have to do, cut down to 338 which is less than what you'd be voting for just one of the challenges. And when you vote, you're not effecting you or your opponents score, so there's no chance of conspiracy. You're voting on images that have no bearing on your current competition.
Talk about conspiracy and cheating will always happen if its a possibility in the system. The easiest solution is to make it not possible or have no incentive too. And If you had 3 hours a week to vote, and compared 700 entries to vote compared to 350 to vote on, would you spend less time voting/commenting or would you spend more time looking at each image?
One thing it would do, is prove once and for all if the percieved avg score being lower is due to DPL and "conspiracy", rushing entries in for the team, or simply people rush voting because there's so many entries. |
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06/20/2007 11:41:35 AM · #67 |
This is not a tue comparison due to DPL. Overall most scores had been going up from the early days of dpc and up to a month or so ago. Just becasue it's a repeat subject challenge does not make it a fair comparison. A better comparison is take open challenges and advanced challenges separately from two years ago and then compare the basic and advanced averages up until a couple months ago. Generally I see much better photos being entered in the last year than two or three years ago. That being said, there has always been a group of outstanding photos and also a few that are terrible, now and in the past.
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So a better comparison is look at basic and advanced challenges two years ago, last year and now and compare scores and also compare to number of votes. Indeed the number of votes have dropped.
Originally posted by dudephil:
Transitions:
Transitions II
Jun. 6th 2007 - Jun. 13th 2007
High score 7.5705
Average 5.4891
Median 5.4902
Lowest 2.9265
Transitions I (in 2002 when no DPL existed)
High score 7.4710
Average 5.2550
Median 5.3137
Lowest 2.4090
Can't say I agree with the conspiracy here guys and gals. |
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06/20/2007 11:44:53 AM · #68 |
| I think that conspiracy is a too big word. I think that is only an effect that with the time will be absorbed. |
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06/20/2007 11:46:05 AM · #69 |
opkay here is a quick grab from the candid challenges but I will take the all the challenges and compare them all tonight in a spread sheet and let you see the impact the DPL has made
Candid IV„²SEASON (DPL)
Average Score: 5.44743
Highest Score: 7.0135
Median Score: 5.4418
Lowest Score: 3.5581
1st place with an
average vote of 7.0135
2nd place with an
average vote of 6.9007
Submissions: 447
Disqualifications: 2
Votes: 64,014
Comments: 5,045
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Candid III „²SEASON
Average Score: 5.1267
Highest Score: 6.9
Median Score: 5.1651
Lowest Score: 2.8128
1st place with an
average vote of 6.9000
2nd place with an
average vote of 6.7004
Submissions: 392
Disqualifications: 6
Votes: 88,584
Comments: 3,702
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Candid II
Average Score: 5.382
Highest Score: 6.911
Median Score: 5.39045
Lowest Score: 3.453
1st place with an
average vote of 6.9112
2nd place with an
average vote of 6.8093
Average Score: 5.382
Highest Score: 6.911
Median Score: 5.39045
Lowest Score: 3.453
Submissions: 173
Disqualifications: 2
Votes: 35,931
Comments: 1,613
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Candid
Average Score: 5.254
Highest Score: 8.109
Median Score: 5.2439
Lowest Score: 3.15
1st place with an
average vote of 8.1088
2nd place with an
average vote of 7.8048
Submissions: 172
Disqualifications: 1
Votes: 49,036
Comments: 3,411
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06/20/2007 11:50:34 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by Rino63:
how many members there was on dpc in 2002? how many of that members are now on dpc? I think that this data aren't a good comparition. We need of a study on last year contests. Remember that the dpl there was before of his integration on dpc and i remember that some thread there was even last year..... |
The only reason why averages went up was because the amount of people that protisapated in the challeges at one given time. It's also the reason that there are so many low scores. with more average votes the lower your score will drop and the harder to bring it back up. Where as THEN (any challenge prior to the DPL) only so many people voted and they voted higher So the scores appear to be about the same. understand???
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06/20/2007 11:53:19 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by dudephil:
Why do you think that way? Have you seen a dramatic decrease in scores across the challenges? |
It's not dramatic, but the average vote over each challenge has decreased on average. Which for some people could appear as considerable drops in personal averages. |
How do explain those whose averages are going up? |
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06/20/2007 11:55:24 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
This is not a tue comparison due to DPL. Overall most scores had been going up from the early days of dpc and up to a month or so ago. Just becasue it's a repeat subject challenge does not make it a fair comparison. A better comparison is take open challenges and advanced challenges separately from two years ago and then compare the basic and advanced averages up until a couple months ago. Generally I see much better photos being entered in the last year than two or three years ago. That being said, there has always been a group of outstanding photos and also a few that are terrible, now and in the past.
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So a better comparison is look at basic and advanced challenges two years ago, last year and now and compare scores and also compare to number of votes. Indeed the number of votes have dropped.
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I totally disagree. You cannot compare scores from different sets of challenges. Comparing a selective desat challenge to a landscape challenge just doesn't work. Also, scores have not statistically gone up over the years. Here is a list of all the challenges. Scroll to the bottom and you'll see that scores have not really gone up at all. Also, look at the 3 highest rated images on the site. If scores have statistically went up wouldn't those three be at the bottom right now?
Number of votes dropped? Probably so as I haven't even looked at that stat - I was talking about score. If there were only 40 voters but they all gave people eights nines and tens there would be no complaints. I think it's so much easier to lay the blame on voters rather than taking an objective view of one's own work.
Message edited by author 2007-06-20 11:56:42. |
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06/20/2007 11:55:38 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by Wildcard:
How do explain those whose averages are going up? |
They are getting better at a rate faster than the general drop :-)
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06/20/2007 11:58:14 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
They are getting better at a rate faster than the general drop :-) |
Any thoughts on why some are getting better faster? |
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06/20/2007 12:00:35 PM · #75 |
Can someone please explain to me what a "DPC friendly" photo is? I'm seeing this phrase coming up more and more.
Thank you!
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