| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/05/2003 10:18:17 PM · #26 |
first, a question:
your 28-105. is it the 28-105/3.5-4.5 or the 28-105/4.0-5.6? The latter is considerably less sharp than the first.
second - try this, it's been known to correct some 10D's that have misfocusing problems:
Go in your camera's menu. go to 'Clear Settings' .. hit 'Set'. You'll see 2 options. Select 'Clear all camera settings' - this resets the camera to 'default' factory mode. Hit 'OK'.
Select Clear Settings again and this time select 'Clear all custom functions'. Hit OK. Hit Menu to exit.
Turn your camera OFF. Wait a moment. Turn it on again. Try it with that.
A couple more things to try:
Hit the button on the back at the upper most that has a cross hair pattern above it. Use your wheel to select the center focusing point. Try it like that.
Another thing to try: Go in the menu to 'Parameters'. Select that, go to 'Set up', and set up set 1 with 'Sharpening' set to +2. Make sure you save your settings and then Go back into parameters and set it to use 'Set 1'.
Finally, you really really have to try taking a picture with you NOT HOLDING THE CAMERA. Setting it on a stable surface or tripod is the ONLY way to know if it's the camera or you. Because there are people who are literally incapable of holding a camera steady enough to take a razor sharp picture. My mom is one, for example :).
Good luck, let us know how you make out.
|
|
|
|
08/05/2003 10:20:19 PM · #27 |
Some more answers to random Canon questions
Along with the manual, worth a read.
//photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/ |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 07:25:09 AM · #28 |
Gordon, that is an excellent article, even for a non-SLR owner. Thank you.
I particularly like this question: //photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/misc.html#soul : )
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 08:15:19 AM · #29 |
Also useful: The seven 'my first SLR' articles here
NYIP Subject Index |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 09:53:40 AM · #30 |
Okay, I took some shots outside. It is overcast white but quite bright. I put the camera on a solid surface (table) and made sure the camera didn't move at all while I clicked the shutter. I didn't use the timer, but I am confident it was still. I can take night shots with my point and shoot and get them almost clear. I am quite steady.
Here are the pictures I got. I think they are horrible! I am pretty confident this camera is messed up. I've taken over 115 photos in auto mode without one clear one to date.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=32276
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=32275
Here is one I took inside on the floor on a book near a huge (8 x 6 foot) bay window. It didn't come out either. When I look at it at 100 percent it is all blur.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=32274
Thanks for the articles. I will definitely look at them. I am so frustrated. I don't know if I should try another unit or just give up...
Ren
Message edited by author 2003-08-06 09:54:06.
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 11:55:57 AM · #31 |
One thing I don't understand from the two samples you posted with exif info. It seems like you must live in the darkest place in the world.
All of your shots seem to be really slow and really wide open apertures.
You really need to get your lens away from wide open (I'm assuming you have the 28-105/4.0/5.6 lens.
I typically get exposures of about 1/200 sec @ f5 @ iso 100 even on cloudy days around here, whereas you seem to be stuck around 1/45sec @f5.6 @ iso 100
The flash shot you took does at least show that your camera can focus correctly, even though the shot is still underexposed. I also really would suggest doing the timer test, and not pressing the shutter yourself.
1/ Make sure your lens is set to autofocus (there is probably a switch on the lens)
2/ half press the shutter until the lens focuses, and the red highlight is seen through the viewfinder
3/ press the shutter the rest of the way down, without moving the camera.
some 10Ds have had focus problems, but until you try it on a tripod, or at least on a tabletop using the timer, pointed at a well lit and contrasty/ detailed subject - its hard to tell. The example you showed of the picture frame is really pretty bad as a subject because you have the reflection in the middle of the shot. Try something with texture and contrast without a huge flare/ reflection and use the timer and see how you get on - may make a difference. |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 12:02:01 PM · #32 |
Another couple of points/ suggestions.
Try setting the camera in Av mode. Turn the aperture selection until it says f8.0. Take a few shots (and ensure that the shutter speed indication is not flashing when you look through the viewfinder - that means it is too dark for the shot you are trying to take)
Hold the camera properly - you should use your left hand to support the lens, cradling it from underneath. Elbows should be tucked in to your sides.
Press the shutter button slowly - it is a two part press - the first press lets the camera focus - the lens should rotate and eventually the red highlight should appear in the viewfinder for the area that has been focused upon. Check that the exposure is correct (you shouldn't see any flashing numbers - if they are the subject is too dark - you need either more light, change the ISO value, or reduce the aperture)
If you have the lens fully zoomed in, the shutter speed has to be greater than about 1/250s for a chance at a sharp picture, assuming you are holding the camera correctly.
Finish pressing the shutter button - this should be a smooth continuation of the press - don't stab.
If you already know all this - sorry for going over basic stuff, but the kind of shake and blur is often caused by these sorts of things. |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 12:12:35 PM · #33 |
You might also want to switch the camera off AI Auto AF auto focus mode and on to the single shot focus mode. This will mean that you have to get good focus before you take the shot.
Otherwise the camera will continually re-evaluate the focus while the shutter button is half pressed - this is great for sports but terrible for other uses. Your camera is currently set in that mode. The manual should explain how to get it into single shot, one time AF mode. |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 01:29:46 PM · #34 |
If all else fails try to get someone else to take a look.
You might consider taking it to a photo shop. If not the place you bought it then some place else that can see helping you as an investment in your future business. Ask someone knowledgeable to try the camera out. If they help you reward them with giving them some of your business next time you need accessories. Also consider a local community college which offers continuing education classes in digital photography. Perhaps the professor would meet with you.
It could be one thing that's hanging you up (like someone suggested make sure the lens is in AF not M mode.) that someone with a lot of experience might see right away but you just happen to be overlooking.
If you havent done so already I'd highly recommend what someone else here said. Return all the settings to their defaults. Then go very carefully through the first parts of the manual and make sure you've got it set up just right. Then try some shots outside with a tripod on P and full auto.
I noticed some of your sample shots are of white subjects. In my experience these are hard for AF to focus. Try something really simple with a lot of color. Like a person in a bright red shirt or a flower maybe.
Oh and one last question. On the camera I use (not an SLR) the focus area lights green and you get two beeps when the subject is in focus. I don't know what the 10D does for this but is it giving you feedback that the subject is in focus?
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 02:07:50 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by ttreit:
[...all good advice...]
Oh and one last question. On the camera I use (not an SLR) the focus area lights green and you get two beeps when the subject is in focus. I don't know what the 10D does for this but is it giving you feedback that the subject is in focus? |
It highlights the area that is in focus, and beeps. However, in the samples shown the camera is in continuous focus mode, so it will never actually stop focusing (the AI Focus AF mode)
In some focus modes you cannot take a picture if the camera cannot focus.
In the AI Focus AF and also burst shooting modes, you can take a picture pretty much whenever you like, even if you haven't waited enough time let the camera focus, or if the camera could not lock. I suspect something like that is happening here. Hopefully Renee can explain how she is setting up the shot/ waiting for focus lock/ doing the correct half shutter press - pause until focused, then final press approach.
Message edited by author 2003-08-06 14:10:34. |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 02:20:26 PM · #36 |
Your camera looks OK, because the dog is clearly in focus.
Your lens suck. Get another one (say the 50 mm II F1.8, it'd be sharper even at F1.8 than what i see on your photos), or try stopping it down to F8+ and see if you get an improvement.
My camera setting:
Usually Av or M.
Custom function is set so that the * button is the focus button. That way, i focus on what i want, recompose, and press the shutter so that the exposure is the overall scene, rather than what the focus is on. This also allows me to not have to press down on the shutter button to keep the focus locked.
What you should do to determine whether the camera is malfunctioning:
1. Use a tripod
2. Shoot something with a clear contrast at wide open and just maybe 1-2 feet above minimum focusing distance.
3. Focus and shoot, then do the same with MANUAL FOCUS. Can you do better?
Your images should be like this with just a bit of sharpening in photoshop (i shoot in RAW, converted with no sharpening, then sharpened it a little in PS). FYI - shot @ 200 mm, F4.5, 1/100ish, hand-held, no IS.
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 02:22:21 PM · #37 |
Also, for anyone with 10D focus problems:
Check outhte diagram below in the link. It's posted by Chuck Westfall, director of technology from Canon. It shows clearly where the sensors are, versus where the SQUARE is (i.e. it's OUTSIDE the square). This may explain some issues some people are having.
10D AF Coverage |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 03:03:22 PM · #38 |
Hey, I'm still here, perplexed.
I appreciate that you guys don't know me to know if I am overlooking things. I have read the manual, re-set the camera back to default, etc (as suggested below). I am doing everything as recommended. I have put the lens (I own the cheaper of the two 28-105mm with the small apeture) in Auto and the camera in Auto and 99% of the time -- I get blur. I even wait for the auto focus, check where it is focusing, make sure it is focused and ready and then click. I have tried to focus manually in Auto too -- no luck.
Then finally the sun just popped out * *really* * bright a few minutes ago -- so bright it was burning my eyes off on the back patio. To give you an idea of how bright, on one side of my patio I have two huge 12 x 6 foot bay windows stacked on top of each other reflecting down and a huge lake opposite. No shortage of light. If anything, you'd expect over-exposure here. And guess what? I finally got clear photos. I held the camera as always but this time it worked.
Here are the exiff data:
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/250
Av( Aperture Value )
11
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
100
Thoughts?
Message edited by author 2003-08-06 15:19:34.
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 03:06:17 PM · #39 |
Actually, the dog is not in focus. When you look at it at 100%, she is all blur. Resizing it to a 640 x 480 gave her a more clean look.
[quote=paganini]Your camera looks OK, because the dog is clearly in focus.[quote]
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 03:09:24 PM · #40 |
Thanks for the suggestion to get someone to look at it. If it was an easy thing to do, I would. I live in no-mans-land -- rural America. I have to drive an hour to return this so I want to make sure I exhaust everything.
I appreciate all the help. Thank you all...I'll be looking for replies to my last post about "bright sunlight".
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 03:20:55 PM · #41 |
regarding the sunlight. this is normal -
as I said below, MANY people need a LOT of practice to be able to hand hold a shot without a little bit of camera shake slower than 1/125 sec.
secondly, your indoor shoots are shot on maximum aperture. I can see that part of each of those shots is in focus but at max aper, your depth of focus area is really really thin. everything outside of that will be out of focus. this is something that can be used creatively in photography AS LONG AS YOU ARE GETTING FOCUS ON THE EXACT SPOT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN. on your dog, it looks like his ears are in focus. if you used a bigger f number (smaller aperture), more of him would be in focus but since your aper is closing down , your shutter speed will get even slower, making it harder to avoid camera shake.
i seriously think camera shake and small depth of focus are your main problems. and this is an experience thing.
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 03:32:40 PM · #42 |
What is confusing me is that I have taken all of these in Auto Mode. Shouldn't auto mode detect things properly and not give me such a horrible DOF and max apeture?
Jacko mentioned to me in one e-mail that he uses the 10D in Auto mode most of time. If it is that bad, how could he?
That's what leads me to believe that this camera is messed...
I'm just thinking out loud. Please don't think I am mad with my questions. I am very grateful for your thoughts and time.
Ren
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 03:41:21 PM · #43 |
well, a lot of people think a narrow thin DOF isnt horrible - but they are aware of it and therefore make use of it.
your camera, in such dark lighting conditions, however, is trying to keep your shutter speed fast enough. to do this, it has to let in more light in another way, and the way it does that is give you more aperture, until it reaches its maximum.
jacko's pics are either in the sun or under a bright lamp, i'm assuming. working right next to a lamp is MUCH brighter than shooting in a typical household living room at night.
btw when you say auto mode, do you mean the green rectangle, or do you mean 'P' mode?
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 03:44:49 PM · #44 |
Renee,
Paganini said it, I'll second the motion. Your lens is the problem. It is not going to be tack sharp at full aperture particularly at full wide zoom. This is true of my lens as well (Canon 28-200 F3.5-5.6). But stop it down to F8, it is sharp as heck.
This is one of the trade-offs of the less expensive lenses, but also is in some respects true of all lenses, no matter the quality. They are never at their best at wide open.
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 04:04:00 PM · #45 |
firbic - I'd forgotten that Douglas Adams quote; thanks for putting in your sig :-)
Ed
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 04:04:32 PM · #46 |
By auto mode, I mean the green rectangle. I have played around with the P mode too without success. I can't get clear photos though in the middle range of the zoom either though.
What settings should I try for indoors on a cloudy day during the afternoon. I have large windows facing SW which let in a fair amount of natural light in. It is raining how though.
Thanks HEAPS for your efforts to help this clueless one LOL.
Renee
Message edited by author 2003-08-06 16:07:55.
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 04:08:11 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by e301:
firbic - I'd forgotten that Douglas Adams quote; thanks for putting in your sig :-)
Ed |
heh heh, thanks Ed, I really like that one myself.
|
|
|
|
08/06/2003 05:22:41 PM · #48 |
Take your camera to your local camera shop, attach a 50 mm II F1.8 ($70 lens), and shoot @ F4+ and if it's not sharp, return the camera :-)
BTW, if your entire pohto is blurry it can mean several things:
1. Camera shake, most common error.
2. You didn't focus it on the area of interest.
3. Camera issue.
4. Lens is soft.
Given that only a small percentage experience #3, it's more likely it's #1 and #2. #4 can be an issue too as well, if you shoot at wide open aperature.
Your lens is fine if you use it shoot 4x6 prints, it'll probably loook "sharp enuff", but when you look at it pixel by pixel, it'll reveal how good or bad the lens is. Your lens isn't the sharpest one around, as I said before, a $70 50 mm prime will blow your lens away.
BTW, no matter how small the DOF, there is always part of the photo that is in focus, but if the lens is soft, even the part of teh photo that is in focus will look soft and seems to be OOF but it should be clearer than the rest of the OOF areas. The most problematic of small DOF issue is that when you focus on something when the DOF is small, and you move your head just so slightly, you will be OOF.
Here's an image straight from camera, 50 mm at F2.2 (soft area of the lens), still, the focus is dead on and it's sharp:
Image
Originally posted by Resiemor:
By auto mode, I mean the green rectangle. I have played around with the P mode too without success. I can't get clear photos though in the middle range of the zoom either though.
What settings should I try for indoors on a cloudy day during the afternoon. I have large windows facing SW which let in a fair amount of natural light in. It is raining how though.
Thanks HEAPS for your efforts to help this clueless one LOL.
Renee |
Message edited by author 2003-08-06 17:24:35. |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 05:23:54 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Resiemor:
Here are the exiff data:
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/250
Av( Aperture Value )
11
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
100
Thoughts? |
The one key piece that isn't shown here is the focal length. (I know I keep repeating myself, but it doesn't seem to be getting mentioned)
The shutter speed _must_ be 1/(focal length*1.6) for you to be able to hand hold the shot.
This means that if you zoom in as much as you can, you _have_ to have a shutter speed of 1/200s at least to hope to get a sharp shot. In each case the samples you posted showed what looked to be a far too slow shutter speed.
The numbers you posted above (1/250 at f11 at ISO 100) are pretty mid range - you should be able to open up the aperture a lot more and still have a fast enough shutter speed. The big point is, and I'll put it in capitals ***** AUTO MODE DOES NOT MEAN YOU GET A FAST ENOUGH SHUTTER SPEED ALL THE TIME ***** particuarly not for a zoom lens. |
|
|
|
08/06/2003 05:30:16 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Resiemor:
What is confusing me is that I have taken all of these in Auto Mode. Shouldn't auto mode detect things properly and not give me such a horrible DOF and max apeture? |
I'm quite happy to answer these all day - so don't feel any one is going to get mad. These cameras are pretty complicated at first.
to get a 'good' exposure you have to let enough light in. Try this for size, think about light as if it was water from a tap. You have to fill a bucket with water (a correct exposure is the same as the bucket being full of water). Now, you can do it two ways - you could use a really wide hose, for a short period of time, or you could use a really thin hose for a longer period of time. The aperture and shutter in your camera are the same thing - you can use a big hole (large aperture or _small_ f number) for a short period of time, or you can use a small hole, (small aperture, or _large_ f number) for a longer period of time.
You can trade these back and forth only so much, but that bucket always has to end up full for a 'correct' exposure. Auto mode tries to pick the correct aperture and shutter to do this. However, if it is too dark , you end up pushing right up against the aperture constraints ( you can't make the hole bigger ) and so you have to go slower and slower - so you end up with shake and blur. The aperture being wide open makes things worse because a wide open aperture not only lets in more light, it has the effect of making the depth of field narrower.
For an SLR (compared to a point and shoot) depth of field has much more effect (and is often one of the things people want from an SLR) but you have to learn how to control it - You can't just expect everything to be in focus all of the time, all of the way through your shot) |
|
