Useful Critiques - DPChallenge Forums

11/20/2002 07:26:10 AM · #26

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I'm not sure how to go about getting 'applications' for additional critique. I believe that a majority of those who submit photos don't read these forums. Let me think about that some...

John - Would it be possible to put an extra check box on the submission page? "Consider this photo for in-depth critique" Maybe at least get an initial idea for how many people want to have their picture reviewed after voting is done. Then maybe confirm it Sunday or Monday and the additional critiques done over the next couple of days. It may be wise to have a limit to how many times per month you can apply, or a limit per 5 challenges so people don't just check the box to check the box.

I would think it would be to the photographer's advantage to have at least 3 reviews. Maybe you could assign photos to the critics and then if they can, do a few more that they have strong opinions about, or something to that effect.

Until next time.... Bob

crabappl3

11/20/2002 07:44:59 AM · #27

Originally posted by inspzil:
John - Would it be possible to put an extra check box on the submission page? "Consider this photo for in-depth critique"

This is a good idea, but I feel would only work if that checkbox only becomes available AFTER the voting is complete. That would force the photographer to come back to the site and check the box. I feel if it is done this way, you won't get 300 people checking it when they first submit their photo, they'd only check it if they crater in the voting and feel it was a better picture than what it got voted at.

-danny

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/20/2002 08:04:40 AM · #28

Originally posted by inspzil:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]I'm not sure how to go about getting 'applications' for additional critique. I believe that a majority of those who submit photos don't read these forums. Let me think about that some...

John - Would it be possible to put an extra check box on the submission page? "Consider this photo for in-depth critique" Maybe at least get an initial idea for how many people want to have their picture reviewed after voting is done. Then maybe confirm it Sunday or Monday and the additional critiques done over the next couple of days. It may be wise to have a limit to how many times per month you can apply, or a limit per 5 challenges so people don't just check the box to check the box.

I would think it would be to the photographer's advantage to have at least 3 reviews. Maybe you could assign photos to the critics and then if they can, do a few more that they have strong opinions about, or something to that effect.

Until next time.... Bob

[/i]

I believe something like this could become possible in the future, but it would not start out this way. Drew and Langdon are busy with coding on the new site and this request would be put to the bottom of the list until the new site is functional and all the bugs are worked out.

If the critique process that we are working on here is successful, I would not hesitate to ask for an addition like you mention here. I want to try it manually for a while and see if those who have volunteered are willing to stick with it before I could even consider asking for a site change to accommodate this process.

zadore

Canon EOS-5D

11/20/2002 08:37:16 AM · #29

John, by manual you mean that you would assign 30 or so random entries to each of the people critiquing, ensuring that no 2 people would get the same image...correct? Would you give us titles or img_id's? ID's would probably be hard to find in all thumbnails cause they are not in order...so maybe titles?

11/20/2002 08:45:45 AM · #30

Originally posted by zadore:
John, by manual you mean that you would assign 30 or so random entries to each of the people critiquing, ensuring that no 2 people would get the same image...correct? Would you give us titles or img_id's? ID's would probably be hard to find in all thumbnails cause they are not in order...so maybe titles?

What I had visioned in the beginning would be to assign photos to each critique member.

If we have ten critique people participating, I would make a list from 1 to 10 and put participants names on the list. If your name was beside number 5, you would be responsible for critiquing photos in their finishing order beginning with 5, 15, 25, etc. If you had #7, you would be responsible for 7, 17, 27, etc. If we have more or less than 10, I would come up with another scheme.

You would be critiquing photos from the recently completed challenge, not the current challenge.

11/20/2002 08:48:40 AM · #31

11/20/2002 08:54:41 AM · #32

Bob, there would be no problem with you critiquing more photos if you wanted to.

BigSmiles

Canon EOS-10D

11/20/2002 08:59:33 AM · #33

Is everyone's #5, #15. etc the same? Each of us are missing an image in the list that everyone else has. our own. Do each of the images have their own unique # or are the numbers arranged according to each individual's list?

11/20/2002 09:06:10 AM · #34

Originally posted by BigSmiles:
Is everyone's #5, #15. etc the same? Each of us are missing an image in the list that everyone else has. our own. Do each of the images have their own unique # or are the numbers arranged according to each individual's list?

Everyone has the same list. The RESULTS page is the same for everyone. We are not looking at the current challenge photos... these will be photos from the most recently completed challenge.

11/20/2002 09:09:09 AM · #35

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Bob, there would be no problem with you critiquing more photos if you wanted to.

That wasn't exactly what I was getting at John, as much as I like the idea. I was just wondering about the value of one critique vs. the value of a couple. Hell, I may not even be qualified enough to do this. But those who can do, and those who can't teach, right? Maybe I'll qualify under those terms. :) I reckon I'll find out. I have to imagine someone is going to do some screening of some sort, even if its reading comments from the past couple of weeks. Who knows, maybe I have no idea what I'm doing? No one's complaining though.
Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses.....

BigSmiles

Canon EOS-10D

11/20/2002 09:10:22 AM · #36

Oh I see.. we're critiquing after the fact. Gotcha.

11/20/2002 09:16:32 AM · #37

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/20/2002 09:17:31 AM · #38

Those of you who are interested and do NOT have email addresses posted on your profile here on DPC need to send me an email to setzler@charter.net so I can build a list for communications...

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

11/20/2002 10:14:18 AM · #39

Originally posted by inspzil:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]Bob, there would be no problem with you critiquing more photos if you wanted to.

That wasn't exactly what I was getting at John, as much as I like the idea. I was just wondering about the value of one critique vs. the value of a couple. Hell, I may not even be qualified enough to do this. But those who can do, and those who can't teach, right? Maybe I'll qualify under those terms. :) I reckon I'll find out. I have to imagine someone is going to do some screening of some sort, even if its reading comments from the past couple of weeks. Who knows, maybe I have no idea what I'm doing? No one's complaining though.
Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses.....
[/i]

Learning to critique well is a good way to get better at taking pictures yourself. The 'checklist' of things you might go through to make a good critique are probably a good 'checklist' to have in the back of your mind when taking pictures in the first place too.

There are basic checklists and the more interesting checklists, we can probably come up with something between us ? I don't mean something that would be a top 10 guide to making dull pictures, or formal 'rules' that you have to follow, but just the basic list of things you should
consider:

For example, the kinds of things I try to think about on a shot (but don't usually get right)

Subject
Subject placement/ orientation
Framing/ orientation
Spatial relationships
Colour relationships
Perspective
Textures
Lighting (sources, bounces, diffusion, angle, shadows)
Technical aspects (DoF, shutter speed, focus, camera movements, white balance, exposure in general, lens effects (telephoto compression etc))
Camera setup (tripods, camera settings)

drewmedia

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

11/20/2002 10:16:02 AM · #40

John and others --

If there is anything we can do to help your effort here, just let us know. I think this is a wonderful idea, and I commend all of you who are offering to participate.

Drew

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

11/20/2002 10:22:53 AM · #41

Here is something I scribbled down as some guidelines - all edits/ changes very welcome: (Some of this taken from other guidelines)

Making A Critique

A critique is a written evaluation of a photograph. It shouldn't just say 'I like/don't like this picture'. Here are some suggested aspects to consider and comment on in your critique

(1) COMPOSITION -CONTENT - This is what the photograph is saying. What is the Center of Interest in the photograph? Where does your eye come to rest in viewing the photo? If there is more than one focus point does that add to the photographs interest or distract from it? Where was the Center of Interest placed within the frame of the photo? Did they use the rule of thirds? Did it improve anything ? What other eye control elements are in the photo (leading lines, contrast, diagonal lines, etc). Did the photographer get close enough to the subject to include only what is important? In other words, are there wasted parts of the frame that contain items not adding to the message of the photo? How is colour used ? Does it add or detract from the main point of the picture. Black and white or monochrome can be used to enhance texture or shape relationships in a picture that additional colours can hide.

(2) BACKGROUND - How did the photographer use the tools of selective focus or depth of field to deal with the background? Is the background simplified, included or a solid or is it nonexistent? How does the background add or distract from the message of the photo?

(3) CAMERA WORK -TECHNICAL - Exposure and focus begin in the camera. Is the subject sharp and clearly in focus? Are part of the photo that need to be clearly focused out of focus? Exposure is observed in the details of the shadow area. A properly exposed photo will have some texture in the shadows. Is the photo exposed properly and give some evidence of what you see? Is there detail visible in the brightest parts of the print? If there are areas of the picture that lack detail or are very contrasty is that good or bad?

(4) DIGITAL PROCESSING - TECHNICAL - Has the image been processed correctly ? Is the white balance correctly compensated for, or does the picture suffer from a colour cast ? (E.g., yellow indoor pictures from domestic lighting) Has the picture
been correctly sharpened ? Does the image have JPEG artefacts or other evidence of poor technical processing ?

(5) YOUR OPINION ON THE PHOTO - What do you like about the subject? Is it an emotional shot, a story, a statement, a humorous photo, or what? Is there anything about the photograph that you would do differently if you were the photographer and had the chance to do the same shot?

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

11/20/2002 10:29:17 AM · #42

Gordon, those are some excellent points and guidelines for a thorough critique... thanks for posting that :)

zadore

Canon EOS-5D

11/20/2002 10:38:58 AM · #43

...to add to Gordon's list (could tie in with point 5)

(6) ARTISTIC MERIT - Is the photo original and creative. Was there enough thought put behind the photo to create an interesting shot. Were some rules broken on purpose, successfully, to make the shot unique and interesting...successfully. Would you print this photo and frame it.

...I think adding a bit or artistic evalutation to all the technical evalution that Gordon lists will be beneficial as well...

11/20/2002 10:47:22 AM · #44

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Gordon, those are some excellent points and guidelines for a thorough critique... thanks for posting that :)

Maybe I'm not qualified.....

Tamron SP 24-70mm F/2.8 Di VC USD for Nikon

11/20/2002 11:10:05 AM · #45

Originally posted by inspzil:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]Gordon, those are some excellent points and guidelines for a thorough critique... thanks for posting that :)

Maybe I'm not qualified.....

Go try one using those ideas for your critique and then we can take a look at it... choose a photo from last week's challenge :)
[/i]

jimmsp

Canon EOS-60D

11/20/2002 11:12:27 AM · #46

Originally posted by inspzil:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]Gordon, those are some excellent points and guidelines for a thorough critique... thanks for posting that :)

Maybe I'm not qualified.....

[/i]

Don't give up so easily.
I've come to realize that I can judge and critique fairly well - much better than I can create. When I look back on my best photos, I realize that someone else - usually nature - created the composition, color selections, etc. I have made the choices in lighting, often using the available sun. My technical capabilities have improved. But now I need to work on the artistic creation side. I think I can improve if I continue to look at more photos that others create. ( I also know I need to spend more time, which I don't do. I usually rush, which doesn't work.)

* This message has been edited by the author on 11/20/2002 11:10:30 AM.

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

11/20/2002 11:15:46 AM · #47

I'd be happy to help out, (that is if u r still looking for more).

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

11/20/2002 11:18:51 AM · #48

When I first joined the site I left comments on every photo and though some were quick and short others were longer and detailed.

Though I received an occasional email from a recipient to discuss my comment and thank me for a useful one this didn't happen much - without knowing whether they were useful or welcome it was hard to maintain the effort required to do so many.

Now I do many less.

Currently I am still voting, I have commented a few but will comment more as I can.

If my commenting is deemed to be useful I would be happy to sign up to detail comment up to 10 photos a week post challenge.

I would really rather comment after the challenge on photos where the photographer has specifically made it known that they would appreciate additional critique, rather than just blanket cover every photo in the challenge.

I'd need to be able to put myself forward for only certain dates and to be able to step back (in advance) for weeks when away or when I know I'd be pushed for time.

If that would be feasible in the process and 10 would be useful and my comments are helpful then sign me up John.

I know that's a lot of IFs...