Confessions of a “Friend Voter”

06/06/2007 01:07:59 PM · #51

Originally posted by okiesisi:

my husband once offered to vote my image up because I felt it was better than the score it recieved, but I didnt let him..and now looking back on it...the score it recieved was right on...therefore, the honest score, without inflated "friend votes"..pushed me to look harder at my photos, and I LEARNED from it!!

Your husband did well to encourage your development as a photographer.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

06/06/2007 01:08:52 PM · #52

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Under normal conditions you first mentor the photographer and offer suggestions for improvement of their images. They address those issues and do a good job with it.

If that were the case, then their IMAGES would improve and be reflected in the general average. There would be no need to vote artificially higher just because of who it is.

06/06/2007 01:10:04 PM · #53

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Ok you give an 8 and 200 others give a 5 or less, even the simplist person can figure out that the image probably sucked and your vote is biased towards them because of your frienship.

You ever consider the possibility that the 200 were wrong? For most of Earth's history everyone believed the Earth was flat.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

06/06/2007 01:10:29 PM · #54

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Call Rikki, maybe he could hook ya up with some peeps.

Rikki's evolved into a conspiracy... 'nuff said!

You must have a great deal more information in this regard than the rest of us do. The fact that he told a bevy of his fellow workers and friends that he entered a specific challenge, and MAY have shown them his entry can indeed be viewed as a terrible faux-pas that can lead to abuse, but that Sir is a quantum leap from being definitive proof of a conspiracy.

While it remains true that the people on the SC are in all probability privy to information germaine to the isssue at hand, I seriously doubt that YOU would possess unrefutable information that would clearly demonstrate that a conspiracy transpired.

At best you are expressing a view based solely on speculation and a personal interpretation of the actions undertaken by those in power.

Belief and proof are not the same... and thank GOD for that, lest we all stand accused and convicted of all types of nefarious undertakings.

Ray

Message edited by author 2007-06-06 13:15:40.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

06/06/2007 01:11:04 PM · #55

I'd rather have an honest vote/comment than an artificially inflated vote and flowery comment.

I think if a friend gives you an unbiased score and some constructive criticism they are doing you a far better service.

Message edited by author 2007-06-06 13:12:32.

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/06/2007 01:12:40 PM · #56

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

I'd rather have an honest vote/comment than an artificially inflated vote and flowery comment.

I think if a friend gives you a low score and some constructive criticism they are doing you a far better service.

CanI just amend the your quote to..

"I think if a friend gives you an HONEST score and some constructive criticism they are doing you a far better service".

other than that you hit the nail on the head.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/06/2007 01:13:18 PM · #57

Originally posted by stdavidson:

What they learn is that they are getting better and that is helpful and THAT is my personal goal.

If you give a high vote to the same person no matter what they enter, then your vote is COMPLETELY meaningless. There is no fluctuation to encourage improvement, and your goal is lost.

wavelength

Nikon D300

06/06/2007 01:13:52 PM · #58

Originally posted by ibkc:

Is there one person on this site besides the original poster of this thread that would like to have their image scored higher by people who know them? Please speak up now.

Me, my wife has admitted to knowingly giving me 5's before. :(

bassbone

Nikon Z8

Nikon NIKKOR Z 24-120 f/4 S

06/06/2007 01:14:51 PM · #59

Steve - I applaud your desire to encourage photographers. However, I find it contrary to vote someone a higher score simply because you want to encourage them. Voting is to rank or grade a photo on its own merits.

As an analogy...In recent years, large philharmanic orchestras have begun a system of having auditions performed behind a screen so that the judges cannot view the performer and will hire the top performer not the best known. I liken the DPC voting system in the same light. While it may be very possible to know who the photographer is by subject, model, etc, it should be the intent of the voter to judge on merit not on person.

Message edited by author 2007-06-06 13:16:10.

EstimatedEyes

Fujifilm GFX 50R

Fujifilm GF 45mm f/2.8

06/06/2007 01:16:32 PM · #60

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:
Ok you give an 8 and 200 others give a 5 or less, even the simplist person can figure out that the image probably sucked and your vote is biased towards them because of your frienship.

You ever consider the possibility that the 200 were wrong? For most of Earth's history everyone believed the Earth was flat.

But this is not what you claim to be doing. If you truly believed the image were an 8 and voted it as such, no one would have a complaint. What I hear you saying is that you agree its worth a 5, but you're giving it an 8 because you want to encourage them. That's just wrong, imho.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

06/06/2007 01:16:49 PM · #61

Originally posted by hopper:

so, the thing that you are talking about ... please define it, or differentiate it from what we call "friend voting"

Originally posted by stdavidson:
I wasn't the one that came up with the term "friend voting", others did.

I did define "friend voting"... quoting myself...

"a decision to encourage the photographic progress and development of someone you know or mentor with a good score"

Whose to say that is even right or wrong? I can be as wrong as anyone, including the SC.

The REAL problem is that the SC has NOT defined DPC "friend voting" but have sanctioned users for violating the 'crime' retroactively.

What has been done is equivalent to saying that speeding is wrong, but we can't tell you what the speed limit is because that would teach you how to speed.

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

06/06/2007 01:17:52 PM · #62

Rather than artificially inflate scores, why not encourage and help newer photographers by writing tutorials, giving one-on-one mentorship, answering questions in the forums or PMs...... and vote honestly. :)

06/06/2007 01:18:32 PM · #63

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
What they learn is that they are getting better and that is helpful and THAT is my personal goal.

If you give a high vote to the same person no matter what they enter, then your vote is COMPLETELY meaningless. There is no fluctuation to encourage improvement, and your goal is lost.

My goal is ALWAYS met. That is because it is preceeded by a discussion of the image and how to improve it.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

06/06/2007 01:19:10 PM · #64

Originally posted by idnic:

I've done all these things

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

06/06/2007 01:19:27 PM · #65

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I considered the possibility but probability says otherwise. And here I thought you said you understood statistical analysis.

LanceW

Nikon Z9

Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D

06/06/2007 01:20:26 PM · #66

Originally posted by stdavidson:

My goal is ALWAYS met. That is because it is preceeded by a discussion of the image and how to improve it.

That's great! You are my hero! However, following that up with a higher vote, than you would give someone who photographed the same image whom you do not know or isn't your "friend" is just plain WRONG and against the rules!

Message edited by author 2007-06-06 13:20:48.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

06/06/2007 01:20:32 PM · #67

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
What they learn is that they are getting better and that is helpful and THAT is my personal goal.

If you give a high vote to the same person no matter what they enter, then your vote is COMPLETELY meaningless. There is no fluctuation to encourage improvement, and your goal is lost.

My goal is ALWAYS met. That is because it is preceeded by a discussion of the image and how to improve it.

So your vote is based on what? How much the image has improved from when the discussion started to the point of entry in a challenge? Do you give them a score at the beginning of the process?

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/06/2007 01:21:05 PM · #68

I can see a ban coming up...

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

06/06/2007 01:21:14 PM · #69

Originally posted by scalvert:

Case in point, I can often ferret out those images submitted by Scalvert, a truly gifted photographer whom I also consider a friend.

I can assure you that notwithstanding the readily recognizable talent of this man, that there have been instances where his images did not fare all that well with me... not often mind you, but it did occur nonetheless.

The scores I have doled out have varied greatly, friend or not, and this sir was a true expression of my appreciation of the image proferred.

Ray

Hipychik

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

06/06/2007 01:21:30 PM · #70

Steve...If this is a popularity contest, why don't we all get our friends and relatives to join and give us some high votes. I'm sure I would do well in the challenges, I have a VERY large family.

Artyste

Sony Ericsson W810i

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Pentax

06/06/2007 01:21:33 PM · #71

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I wasn't the one that came up with the term "friend voting", others did.
I did define "friend voting"... quoting myself...

"a decision to encourage the photographic progress and development of someone you know or mentor with a good score"

Whose to say that is even right or wrong? I can be as wrong as anyone, including the SC.

The REAL problem is that the SC has NOT defined DPC "friend voting" but have sanctioned users for violating the 'crime' retroactively.

What has been done is equivalent to saying that speeding is wrong, but we can't tell you what the speed limit is because that would teach you how to speed.

You remain intentionally blind to every single person telling you *exactly* where it is in the rules, *exactly* how it is wrong, and *exactly* why it isn't accepted...

I'm done with this. You remind me of a stubborn child growing red in the face with arms crossed, pouting in the corner because you're not getting 'your way'. From experience, time to just walk away and let them be stubborn.

Message edited by author 2007-06-06 13:23:07.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/06/2007 01:22:51 PM · #72

I thought that assigning a vote based on the identity of the photographer rather than on the artistic merit of the photo was the definition of troll voting. Ethically, it doesn't matter what that vote is.

Challenge results are based on votes intended to be an expression of our collective opinion of the artistic merit of the submissions. If some people are, instead, assigning votes based not on the merit of the photo but the identity of the photograper, then the results are "inaccurate" and the overall mission of the vote (and the site) subverted. That is how it is unfair to both the other submissions, and to the vast majority of voters who vote according to the rules.

mattmac

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

06/06/2007 01:23:56 PM · #73

I find this to be bizarre.

Why not alter challenges by removing the anonymity of each image: "Landscape" by

mattmac...that way, people could go to my profile, determine whether I need an inflated score due to the fact that I am (or not) a developing photog. We can call it Holistic Voting.

That way, the mediocre image I submitted would score a 7.2 - and since

Scalvert and

Librodo already have enough ribbons, you should score their amazing image lower, say, a 4 - since they don't need the ego boost.

Huh?

Votes tell me how my image faired in the confines of the challenge. Comments help me improve my photography.