Confessions of a “Friend Voter”

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

06/06/2007 12:51:05 PM · #26

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Call Rikki, maybe he could hook ya up with some peeps.

Rikki's evolved into a conspiracy... 'nuff said!

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

06/06/2007 12:53:06 PM · #27

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I help developing photographer's with an honest critique of their images...

If you give a 4 image a 8 because this person is your friend, where's the honesty in that

06/06/2007 12:53:08 PM · #28

Originally posted by ursula:

Defining conspiracies is difficult.

This is the issue the SC needs to define and do so in very specific terms, not ban "friend voting" in a secret, undefined way.

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

06/06/2007 12:53:46 PM · #29

you know you can't vote on teammates entries, right?

Originally posted by stdavidson:

In fact, it is encouraged in the DPL.

06/06/2007 12:54:24 PM · #30

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
I help developing photographer's with an honest critique of their images...

If you give a 4 image a 8 because this person is your friend, where's the honesty in that

As long as it does not violate rules how I vote is my perogative, just as your vote is yours. THAT is honest!

Simms

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/06/2007 12:54:59 PM · #31

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I don't want to be a friend... what I want is to encourage a developing photographer to go on to do even better still. I help developing photographer's with an honest critique of their images... I encourage their further progress with my score!

TROLL TROLL TROLL

Encourage your friends with an email or even a phonecall.

Message edited by author 2007-06-06 13:52:43.

pamelasue

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/06/2007 12:55:24 PM · #32

I don't see how 'friend voting' helps the photographer at all ... if they really want to learn and grow how does artificially inflating their score help them learn? what they learn is that their mediocre image *appears* to be better than it really is ... and they continue down that path, taking the same quality of images ...

personally, I'd be really upset if someone were 'friend voting' for my images ... I want honest opinions and critiques because I'm actually here to LEARN and improve my photography ...

LanceW

Nikon Z9

Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D

06/06/2007 12:55:30 PM · #33

Originally posted by stdavidson:

As long as it does not violate rules how I vote is my perogative, just as your vote is yours. THAT is honest!

Sorry, but voting a "Friend's" image higher just because they are your friend doesn't help them one bit!

Nuff Said!

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

06/06/2007 12:55:50 PM · #34

Originally posted by stdavidson:

That approach is NOT prohibited in the rules as they are currently written. In fact, it is encouraged in the DPL.

It IS prohibited per the rule posted earlier, and past suspensions / notices should have been further evidence that this practice is not welcome. You can't vote at all on your teammates' DPL entries, so how is that encouragement?

Hipychik

Sony Alpha a6000

06/06/2007 12:57:30 PM · #35

My daughter joined this site and I would just love to give her a 10. I like her photos. She likes mine. We kind of think alike. To be fair we decided that we just wouldn't vote on each others entries. It's so simple. I just don't see what the problem is.

frisca

Nikon D70

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/06/2007 12:57:32 PM · #36

I too, am at a loss to see where voting based on the photographer not the photograph is encouraged. Please advise, Steve.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

06/06/2007 12:57:50 PM · #37

The issue of voting related to the DPL because of its competetive nature has been defined and resolved. The issue of "friend voting" is different.

Remember... I wasn't the one that came up with the term "friend voting", others did. I think that term is inappropriate to a voting 'crime'.

Originally posted by hopper:

you know you can't vote on teammates entries, right?

Originally posted by stdavidson:
In fact, it is encouraged in the DPL.

okiesisi

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

06/06/2007 12:58:03 PM · #38

my husband once offered to vote my image up because I felt it was better than the score it recieved, but I didnt let him..and now looking back on it...the score it recieved was right on...therefore, the honest score, without inflated "friend votes"..pushed me to look harder at my photos, and I LEARNED from it!!

NstiG8tr

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

06/06/2007 12:59:06 PM · #39

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
I help developing photographer's with an honest critique of their images...

If you give a 4 image a 8 because this person is your friend, where's the honesty in that

As long as it does not violate rules how I vote is my perogative, just as your vote is yours. THAT is honest!

Ok you give an 8 and 200 others give a 5 or less, even the simplist person can figure out that the image probably sucked and your vote is biased towards them because of your frienship.

hopper

Canon EOS-80D

Canon EF 35mm f/2 IS USM

06/06/2007 01:00:30 PM · #40

so, the thing that you are talking about ... please define it, or differentiate it from what we call "friend voting"

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I wasn't the one that came up with the term "friend voting", others did.

Artyste

Sony Ericsson W810i

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Pentax

06/06/2007 01:01:01 PM · #41

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I encourage their further progress with my score!

That approach is NOT prohibited in the rules as they are currently written. In fact, it is encouraged in the DPL. As long as that remains true I will continue doing what I do.

No, you actually don't. You encourage them to believe what they are shooting is better than it is. You encourage laziness and mediocrity. You encourage a mentality that believes that a meaningless *number* is as important as the work itself.

Go on doing what you're doing by all means.. but doing it *is* against the rules as currently written, if, in fact, you are deliberately basing your scores simply on who the person is. That is bias towards a *person*.

That's all I have to say about it all. Seems to me the only people that have an issue with this rule are the people that don't care to listen to it.

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

06/06/2007 01:01:29 PM · #42

I think if friend voting isn't frowned upon this place would become nothing but another eyefetch.

OdysseyF22

Panasonic DC-G9

Olympus 12-45mm f/4.0 Pro

06/06/2007 01:01:36 PM · #43

Life is hard, real improvment takes time and effort. "Friend voting" creates artificial inflation and defeats the entire idea of self-improvement; in the end it is dis-honest and misleading.

It's been said before: if you can't vote on the image and not the photog, then skip that one and move on. There is no other fair way to do it. On DPC, the photo should rule, regardless of who took it.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

06/06/2007 01:02:00 PM · #44

Originally posted by pamelasue:

What they learn is that they are getting better and that is helpful and THAT is my personal goal.

wavelength

Nikon D300

06/06/2007 01:03:35 PM · #45

Steve, take it from another Steve. You only have shades of Gray where there is indecision and insufficient evidence.

On this issue, there is a black/white policy on friend voting for a reason. Because you have possibly have no clue how many other "friends" this other person has, you just can't do it. No matter how innocent or possibly naive it is on your side, you as the friend voter do not know what is happening with this other persons possible friends.

And, as was said before, words of encouragement are better given with a good swift kick in the behind. Especially if you want your ment-ee to actually improve instead of just feel good for a moment before the next 3 comes along.

I have been the giver, and probably recipient, of friend voting in the past. But with how things are now, I have no interest in having voting behavior that is anything other than above reproach.

There's no point, just don't do it.

irisheyes

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

06/06/2007 01:04:00 PM · #46

No.. that is your personal opinion...

What they learn is that they are getting better and that is helpful and THAT is my personal goal. [/quote]

pineapple

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/06/2007 01:04:47 PM · #47

You know, stdavidson, there are a lot of people who are silently abiding by the spirit and the letter of the rules around here. Frankly speaking, you insult those people, myself included. What version of honesty don't you understand? Personally, I would prefer you took a walk away from this site.

06/06/2007 01:06:54 PM · #48

Originally posted by frisca:

I too, am at a loss to see where voting based on the photographer not the photograph is encouraged. Please advise, Steve.

OK... no problem. Under normal conditions you first mentor the photographer and offer suggestions for improvement of their images. They address those issues and do a good job with it.

That is enough to justify a good score from me. There are plenty of others that will vote an image lower for the most rediculous of reasons. Developing photographers don't need that. They need positive reinforcement and I chose to use my vote toward that purpose and as long as that is legal I will continue to do so.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III