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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> doin it again...Levels
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 07/11/2003 11:27:08 PM · #26
Something just occurred to me. Maybe it is a thought that you had a long time ago, but, hey it's new to me . . .

Whether levels or not, I am still competing against people that I consider better than me. Decide who you want to be in your level, then when results come out, simply ignore all the people who weren't in your level. But good photographers are leaving?? Good photographers are coming in, too. Attrition and movement is natural at a site like this, at any site. I would wager to say that more bad and/or not serious (though this is not to imply that all bad are not serious and all not serious are not bad) photogs were participating less as well.

mav, in all honesty, I think you are being (in your own words) dagny. That is not to say you shouldn't want to push for change for the better, which is fine, but don't get worked up about it and quit, if overall you enjoy it. If you are not enjoying it (and this is to anyone reading), life is too short to be miserable. Take up gardening, biking, fishing, hiking, reading, something that you can enjoy.

Sometimes we just need a break. A few weeks ago, I was at that point. My husband and I were talking about it, and decided that maybe I should take a break and just take pictures of what I wanted to. Novel concept, huh? When I took the pressure of submitting to every challenge off of myself, I started enjoying photography more, and ideas came more easily. You haven't seen me on the front page, so obviously it is not pictures that dpcer's consider "winners" but a few of them made some dang nice prints for my house!!


07/12/2003 01:01:47 AM · #27
karmat,
It don't get any better than that, very well put.
Dick
 07/12/2003 01:37:31 AM · #28
I tried to NOT post to this thread, but I still agree that some sort of 'breakdown' of the challenges in the members area would be a good thing. What I have learned from my past discussions is that 'levels' is not a good term to use. "Level" seems to automatically imply skill level, which is something that can't really be defined here.

There are other ways that breakdowns can happen and I have a few new ideas that I would like to share that I believe would offer something fresh. I have been surfing some lately and I have come up with a compilation of ideas that could be beneficial.

If anyone is interested in hearing these ideas, I would start a new 'suggestion' thread tomorrow...



07/12/2003 01:46:20 AM · #29
ya know, i've been kind of frustrated lately with this site. i used to be able to post my photos at a site like photosig and get honest critiques without the bull associated with the "challenge topic", but that site has completely jumped the shark and is no longer at all useful. therefore, i come here to try to get some feedback (and adoration!), but there's very little of that going around anymore.

i'm not sure what it is, but it almost seems like photo sites in general are going downhill. people don't feel like writing critiques anymore! maybe we should institute a rule whereby you have to post a certain amount of critiques per month in order to maintain an account. fascist, yes, but possibly productive toward our ultimate goal of bettering our photography. it might severely cut down the user list, but i'd rather have a small amount of contributing members than a bunch of anonymous onlookers.

just my 2.

Message edited by author 2003-07-12 01:47:21.
 07/12/2003 01:51:50 AM · #30
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I tried to NOT post to this thread, but I still agree that some sort of 'breakdown' of the challenges in the members area would be a good thing. What I have learned from my past discussions is that 'levels' is not a good term to use. "Level" seems to automatically imply skill level, which is something that can't really be defined here.

There are other ways that breakdowns can happen and I have a few new ideas that I would like to share that I believe would offer something fresh. I have been surfing some lately and I have come up with a compilation of ideas that could be beneficial.

If anyone is interested in hearing these ideas, I would start a new 'suggestion' thread tomorrow...


Do it! :)
 07/12/2003 01:59:34 AM · #31
Originally posted by pedromarlinez:
Does it really matter what those guys think? When I see a comment that's clearly from someone who hasn't a clue, I'll just take it for what it is...an opinion from someone without a clue.
Hell I think I'm pretty smart about some of this stuff, but I'm sure lots of my comments are dismissed as someone who 'just doesn't understand their art'.

I think there already are for all intents and purposes two levels - members and non-members. True there are no criteria for the above other than the $25, but if you look at the quality of entries, member challenges are higher (on average, obviously not in all cases).
One of the things I like is the ability to test my skills against all judges - qualified and not.

If I want a professional opinion, I'll go ask a professional, not 7000 random people who signed up on a website.

I think there are some really bright and talented people here, and their colours usually show by what they say. As for the others...who cares?

Since my ego, employment, mental status, marital status, and retirement savings plan don't require me to get high scores here, I don't really need them.

A few intelligent comments about my shot are all i really look for anyway (critical or otherwise); anything more is gravy, anything less is just noise.

I'll step off my soapbox now. Stick around Mavrik.




I understand completely thats why I posted this a few days ago

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=32336

07/12/2003 02:21:11 AM · #32
I understand the frustration here believe me. It's very frustrating to have people who have never competed in a challenge and have been a member since last week critiquing my pic and marking it down for what I intended to be the subject of the pic....and what they think is an error. ::: had to get that off my chest:::

what I'd like to see happen here is very simple...the site stays the same except for every once in a while (once or twice a month) there's a masters challenge and it's open only to those who have ribboned, or placed in the top 10 twice in the past, or have an average over 6.7 or.......you get the point. Again it would be productive because we'd all have another goodie to strive for, and it would give those who have achieved some "level" of competence on this site a chance to be judged by their peers.
07/12/2003 03:29:08 AM · #33
I know this is sorta "off topic" in this thread but I was sorta thinking something simmilar... Award the blue ribbon winner a month free membership. It's not much but it'll get people eager and hopefully submitting the *best* pic they can.

going back "on topic" I don't really think a permanent split of levels should be implemented; temporary or occasional, yes.

07/12/2003 03:51:00 AM · #34
Originally posted by Kali:
I know this is sorta "off topic" in this thread but I was sorta thinking something simmilar... Award the blue ribbon winner a month free membership. It's not much but it'll get people eager and hopefully submitting the *best* pic they can.

going back "on topic" I don't really think a permanent split of levels should be implemented; temporary or occasional, yes.


what do you win if you're alredy a member
 07/12/2003 03:53:55 AM · #35
a cheaper rate for next year?
 07/12/2003 04:07:21 AM · #36
How about this for levels, you have an open, bottom level, and when someone gets a ribbon or two in that rung, then they can climb up to the next level.
 07/12/2003 04:30:43 AM · #37
Originally posted by MrCaN:
How about this for levels, you have an open, bottom level, and when someone gets a ribbon or two in that rung, then they can climb up to the next level.


Yep that's the idea...not original though it's how they pick the Olympic team.

And since the subject came up....
how about scoring like they do for ice skaters

Technical 1-10
Artistic 1-10
Meets challenge 1-10


07/12/2003 08:10:33 AM · #38
Originally posted by joannadiva:
Originally posted by MrCaN:
How about this for levels, you have an open, bottom level, and when someone gets a ribbon or two in that rung, then they can climb up to the next level.


Yep that's the idea...not original though it's how they pick the Olympic team.

And since the subject came up....
how about scoring like they do for ice skaters

Technical 1-10
Artistic 1-10
Meets challenge 1-10


Simply brilliant!! Some people, maybe most, consider these elements in voting now and then average out for an overall vote. The only draw back as I see it is the time factor. But overall it would encourage folks here to analyze/critique in a more ballanced manner. Everyone would benefit and stand to learn a whole lot more with such a voting scheme.
 07/12/2003 06:42:29 PM · #39
bump
 07/12/2003 10:14:59 PM · #40
Originally posted by alansfreed:
I learn from the good AND the not so good. People who consider themselves to be on the lower end of the scale here, so to speak, will always learn to become better by being in better company. To me it's a really bad move to try to segregate the site into quality levels.

What good does it do a lesser-skilled photographers to languish among lesser-skilled photographers?

I have used this analogy before, and I think it works here. I like to play tennis. Years ago I used to play with a girl who was on our high school tennis team, and she was really good. Playing with her made me a better player.

When I was in college, I often tried to twist arms to get someone to play tennis with me, and I'd play from time to time with my college roommate, who... well... sucked. And by playing with him, I actually got worse and worse as I tried to "dumb myself down" to his level.

I've won a few ribbons here, but I typically wind up with shots in the middle of the pack. I love being immersed with all sorts of skill levels, and aspire to move closer to the top by examining the skills of the folks here who tend to do well consistently.

Likewise, when a challenge is over I find myself quickly going to the bottom of the pack, too. I do that not to poke fun at the people at the bottom, but to learn from how they presented their work, and why it was criticized.


Originally posted by mavrik:
Who do you learn from and how on dpc, alan?


See my problem with this, Alan is I agree with your analogy totally and understand it from being a successful junior tennis player too. My only issue is that while I agree and totally understand the analogy, I end up coming to a totally different conclusion. If week after week you play with someone who 'sucks', does that raise your game ?
 07/12/2003 10:34:29 PM · #41
I teach music to all levels. I find that it makes me a better musician.
 07/13/2003 12:11:10 AM · #42
Bloddy right bob old chap!!
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