| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/14/2007 05:04:03 AM · #26 |
thanks for taking the time to explain some of that dude, it's been good to understand the difference in real terms rather than just jumping to conclusions by looking at the number of megapixels.
I think there is only one thing to do next and that is try them out in a shop and get them to do a print so i can compare, i guess it's easier to understand the difference when you can see it with your own eyes! |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 05:17:01 AM · #27 |
| i just upgraded from a 350d to a 5d and i could not be happier. For me the main reason was the full frame was a must and it is as good if not better than i imagined. Although if you dont want full frame (because it changes everything) then it may not be worth the extra $ for you. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 05:26:02 AM · #28 |
Well, I handled a work colleagues 30D and fired off some shots with it last week.
Lets just say, I have started saving....
The 30D is in a different league to the 300D/350D. It feels so much nicer and the sound of the shutter just inspires confidence :-)
Oh - And 5fps seems realy fast compared to my 350D's supposed 3fps!!! |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 07:51:51 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
You can listen to scarlet but forget the D70 toter. Id actually be that much more convinced to buy any nikon if they had never made the D70 or D70s. |
hrmm...I didn't mean to imply that the OP get a d70 or d70s, just a simple suggestion to come and join the dark side. I will agree, there are much better Nikon cameras than the d70 available now. |
what you and even less for eschlar didnt get it was sort of a joke. Sort of. I really have a couple of things against it especially because Like the D80 I only have seen the specific artifacts from the D70 and not the rest of Nikon's line. I have heard some issues with the d80 I've only run into one of them. My friend dan has a d80 but i havent bean able to coarse him into letting me use it long enough.
It's sort of like I hate the D40's Sensor Moire Problem. I got over it for about 5 minutes decided to try one out picked it up and the grip is only half the size i need it to be. Didn't even bother turning it on to see how hard this problem would be to reproduce. Heck my point and shoot will reproduce it if you kick it down into half res.
The OP should stick with Canon just for the sake of his lens system. In my case Im going pentax. My Pentacon and Canon lenses are all Manual Primes. No point in limiting myself to a system based on that.
The d70 probly holds it own but so does the 1995 Kodak DCS460 6MP Digital Back SLR. Its limited to iso 80 but it takes clear noise free pictures and its 12 years old. Good luck getting a battery for one. All cameras have their downsides and most of them pack enough technology (100+ years worth) to make a proper phototgraph if you know how to use it. Im a camera user not an artist I have no vision but, being a student mechanic and having taken programming in high school (No it wasnt VB... hah Object Pascal). Im more into the techincal side of the camera's so maybe thatll help you with my POV.
Message edited by author 2007-03-14 07:55:09. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 08:05:21 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
[quote=RainMotorsports]
No offense dude, but you are telling someone to 'forget the D70 toter' as if advice given by a guy who has been using a DSLR for at least 2 or 3 years has less to say than you who are still satisfied by results from RAW files from a Fuji P&S? |
I am in no way satisfied by the image quality of the Fuji. Or any of its replacements. OR ANY CAMERA I OWN/BORROW on my list.
Which is why I didn't buy it its borrowed. But to pull the better end of it out have to shoot RAW. Even if it doesnt produce better results per say its gonna help me on the post processing end.
Now to the higher end of that the S5000 actually has a much larger sensor then the any of Fuji's P&S/SLR Like Line. Im not sure at all why when they increased resolution they decreased sensor size.
Fuji's interpolation is BS. The camer'as really only 3 MP not 6. Any of you that have looked at it knew this almost right away. But it has the equivalent of a 306mm lense on a 35mm. Cruddy and distorted... it can be its actually better towards telephoto but not quite all the way.
Honestly if i was going to buy one of them the S6000 and S9100 have a manual zoom ring and manual focus ring. But with the decrease in sensor size its un appealing.
AT 350+ dollars its also a complete waste of money (S6000 or higher). Mind as well hang onto it and buy an entry level dSLR. Minus its not gonna come with as large or as on the good side as cruddy of a lense.
Fuji Super Zoom lense also move very easily actually adding to the camera's sahek issues.
I'd love to test out a Fuji S3.... but its not like anyone in my area has one. The stores around here are smart enough not to carry one.
Look out for my Pentax K10D in august and option look out for the worst photos you've seen from a Pentax lol.
Message edited by author 2007-03-14 08:07:35. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 08:55:45 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by dewdodesign:
But it's hard to know what the difference actually is between the 5D in the semi-pro category and the 400D in the amateur category especially when there is all this talk about Megapixels which makes it sound like the 400D is miles better than the 5D which in reality it probably isn't? |
I'm in this same boat - wanting to upgrade, but no urgency. I'll just note that in addition to a much larger sensor, the 5D is 12.8 Megapixels and the 400D is 10.1, so I don't know how that makes the 400D seem miles better? |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 12:29:47 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by eschelar:
Honestly, there isn't a huge increase in image quality from 300D to any of those cameras outside of the 5D and possibly the 1D. Using the same size sensor doesn't allow for much improvement.
Probably the safest bet for cash is the 400D as it is the newest, has good noise reduction etc... Only real pull to the 30D is hand feel, lighting control (on board PC-sync), and 5FPS. |
IMO, the 5D is significantly better than the 300D above ISO 400, the 400D and 30D may be better at high ISO settings (don't have them, so I can't say). Focus is better than the 300D on all the other cameras, and you get more AF modes. Any of those cameras give you more control, better status (ie better histogram, etc) and a bigger LCD.
I went from the 300D to the 5D. Still use the 300D occasionally (with an 18-200mm lens, its better than a P&S for when I want to travel light).
Remember that your ef-s lens will not work and the 5D does not have an on-board flash. On the other hand, the Tamron 28-75 is a very nice, fairly inexpensive lens, and the on-board flash is rather limiting anyway.
There is no good answer to which camera is best. But look at this from a different viewpoint--What will the price of a 5D, zoom that replaces your 18-55mm lens and external flash (if you don't have one)? You could get the 400D or 30D (if you look hard, you can find new 20Ds cheap) and a 24-70L or 24-105L, and maybe a prime or two.
|
|
|
|
03/14/2007 12:34:34 PM · #33 |
| Back when i had my long list of camera's to choose from i was wondering if the 400D was worth the money compare dto just starting out with the 350D instead. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 12:53:35 PM · #34 |
If money isn't an object, and you're prepared to deal with the different world that a full 35mm frame sensor implies, the image quality of the 5D is in a different league. I moved from the 10D, which outputs similar image quality to the 300D. The 5D is light-years from that, both in noise performance and in acuity (much less need for sharpening, out-of-camera files are highly detailed).
Choosing lenses for a 5D is a different sort of decision process. While the 5D is no more demanding than the 300D (or 10D) in the center of the frame, it requires that the lens perform well across the entire image circle. This is something that few wide-angle lenses do really well, and it makes choosing WA lenses for the 5D a little tough. This is especially true if your uses demand any kind of corner sharpness at wide aperture. On the positive side, 24mm is quite wide on a 5D. I find that I really don't need any wider rectilinear lens, just my 15mm fisheye.
Bottom line, you need to define whether the additional expense for the body is worth it, or if you would be better served with a 30D and a lens or two. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 01:01:48 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
If money isn't an object, and you're prepared to deal with the different world that a full 35mm frame sensor implies, the image quality of the 5D is in a different league. I moved from the 10D, which outputs similar image quality to the 300D. The 5D is light-years from that, both in noise performance and in acuity (much less need for sharpening, out-of-camera files are highly detailed).
Choosing lenses for a 5D is a different sort of decision process. While the 5D is no more demanding than the 300D (or 10D) in the center of the frame, it requires that the lens perform well across the entire image circle. This is something that few wide-angle lenses do really well, and it makes choosing WA lenses for the 5D a little tough. This is especially true if your uses demand any kind of corner sharpness at wide aperture. On the positive side, 24mm is quite wide on a 5D. I find that I really don't need any wider rectilinear lens, just my 15mm fisheye.
Bottom line, you need to define whether the additional expense for the body is worth it, or if you would be better served with a 30D and a lens or two. |
It's posts like this that tend to get me into serious spending trouble... =] |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 02:11:51 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Look out for my Pentax K10D in august and option look out for the worst photos you've seen from a Pentax lol. |
Damn youuuuu! We're still on the first page of vote received by camera! |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 02:51:27 PM · #37 |
Hi dewdodesign,
My suggestion is you should wait! The PMA was over 3 days ago and so far there weren't any new cameras from Canon, except the 1D Mark III. Unless money isn̢۪t an issue then go for the new 1D Mark III. I think waiting is the best option for you now because the 30D and the 5D are long overdue for replacement, plus you just miss the rebate period which ended in February. The 400D/XTi is a great great camera with the new technology, but if you have already owned one of the Rebel series you should look into something different, perhaps something that's a class higher.
If your rebel stops working, by all means get a replacement, in this case the 400D/XTi is the best choice due to its new sensor cleaning technology.
If you can only wait a little, please at least wait until Canon Spring rebate. I hope they'll offer fat rebates for both the 5D and the 30D, extra cash will offset the sensor cleaning
If you can wait until August I'm pretty sure you'll have more options to choose from. You can either go for the newest products or save a bunch with the old ones.
My point isâ€Â¦ the future is promising, you should be patient.
Nathan.
|
|
|
|
03/14/2007 03:01:21 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by dewdodesign:
I'm looking to upgrade my Canon 300D in the very near future ... With all this to bear in mind I am confused about which one would be a decent upgrade from the 300D. |
What limitation in your current 300D is forcing you to need a new camera ? How many pictures are you not able to take and what are the conditions that are causing you to miss them ? What restrictions are you finding in final image quality or print size that makes you need a new body ?
Once you can easily and succinctly answer these sorts of questions, you'll know which new camera you need.
Message edited by author 2007-03-14 15:02:21. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 03:06:02 PM · #39 |
| nhuto makes a good point regarding the Spring rebates, which should be in place by sometime in April. Waiting beyond that makes little sense if you really feel the need for an upgrade. Is the 5D "overdue" for replacement? It's only 18 months old, so by Canon's past practice it is currently due, but the fact is it has no competition and they would be foolish to update it at this point. I'm skeptical that it will be updated even in the Fall. The 30D is under significantly more competitive pressure, and is, IMO, more likely to see an update. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 03:18:01 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
nhuto makes a good point regarding the Spring rebates, which should be in place by sometime in April. Waiting beyond that makes little sense if you really feel the need for an upgrade. Is the 5D "overdue" for replacement? It's only 18 months old, so by Canon's past practice it is currently due, but the fact is it has no competition and they would be foolish to update it at this point. I'm skeptical that it will be updated even in the Fall. The 30D is under significantly more competitive pressure, and is, IMO, more likely to see an update. |
Does a 40D even make sense ? Is there need a for a camera between the 400D functionality and the 5D ? There might be a price point, but is there a functional gap ? |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 03:22:48 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Does a 40D even make sense ? Is there need a for a camera between the 400D functionality and the 5D ? There might be a price point, but is there a functional gap ? |
There's market space, that's for sure. Functionally, I don't know if we can talk too much about specific gaps, since they are significantly different machines. I can't see the 30D continuing to be the top of Canon's APS-C DSLR line. It will need an update. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 03:24:55 PM · #42 |
I am in a similar boat. I've been shooting Canon my entire life. I have had my 350D for almost 2, years now. I am looking to start shooting weddings and portraits seriously. I have done enough family and friends at a little over cost. For that, I want my wide angles to be wide...no effective focal length of 1.6x. I need to be close enough to subjects to direct everyone without yelling from the back of the church! So on my list of things to buy is the full frame 5D and better quality "kit sized" lenses (18-55mm...ish), plus studio lighting (but that's another thread). Stick the wider lens on the 5D for wide shots, carry a longer lens on the 350 to make it 1.6x longer...all bases covered, let's rock and roll!
Now I have to build a budget to obtain and pay for all my toys...I mean business equipment, yeah that's it...business equipment!
Edit: Wrong date...I've had my 35mm Rebel 5-6 years, digital 2 years.
Message edited by author 2007-03-16 10:52:36. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 03:30:23 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
There's market space, that's for sure. Functionally, I don't know if we can talk too much about specific gaps, since they are significantly different machines. I can't see the 30D continuing to be the top of Canon's APS-C DSLR line. It will need an update. |
What I mean is, isn't the 400D far ahead of the 30D in most meaningful ways ? Wouldn't a 40D be a 400D in a better constructed body ? Doesn't seem worthwhile really ? Used to be the rebel was missing a whole lot of features compared to the mid-range SLR body, but it seems that gap has closed to the point that maybe the 40D & 400D should be the same camera, with the 5D price dropping to fill the gap.
Of course, if they can get people to pay for a 400D in a part metal body for twice the price, they should go for it...
Message edited by author 2007-03-14 15:30:58. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 04:28:18 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by kirbic:
There's market space, that's for sure. Functionally, I don't know if we can talk too much about specific gaps, since they are significantly different machines. I can't see the 30D continuing to be the top of Canon's APS-C DSLR line. It will need an update. |
What I mean is, isn't the 400D far ahead of the 30D in most meaningful ways ? Wouldn't a 40D be a 400D in a better constructed body ? Doesn't seem worthwhile really ? Used to be the rebel was missing a whole lot of features compared to the mid-range SLR body, but it seems that gap has closed to the point that maybe the 40D & 400D should be the same camera, with the 5D price dropping to fill the gap.
Of course, if they can get people to pay for a 400D in a part metal body for twice the price, they should go for it... |
FPS and build quality are the two big ones I can think of.
People will pay a premium to be able to shoot faster than 3fps. With Canon, unless you've got 5k to drop on a pro model, the 20/30/40D is your only option for that high speed burst. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 05:51:02 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by kirbic:
There's market space, that's for sure. Functionally, I don't know if we can talk too much about specific gaps, since they are significantly different machines. I can't see the 30D continuing to be the top of Canon's APS-C DSLR line. It will need an update. |
What I mean is, isn't the 400D far ahead of the 30D in most meaningful ways ? Wouldn't a 40D be a 400D in a better constructed body ? Doesn't seem worthwhile really ? Used to be the rebel was missing a whole lot of features compared to the mid-range SLR body, but it seems that gap has closed to the point that maybe the 40D & 400D should be the same camera, with the 5D price dropping to fill the gap.
Of course, if they can get people to pay for a 400D in a part metal body for twice the price, they should go for it... |
The 400D is ahead of the 30D on resolution and the anti-dust system.
The 30D is ahead on build quality, ease of use (controls are a lot less fiddly), viewfinder quality, spot metering (ho ho), FPS, ISO (has "Hi" setting and also settings in 1/3 stops over the normal range).
Given I own a 350D I would be interested in a 40D if it retained the 30D's advantages and caught up elsewhere (10MPix, anti-dust). Of course it would be even better if it had other advantages too (ISO 6400? 3" screen? 12MP?). I'm not interested in buying a 400D because it has most of the same annoyances as the 350D (crappy viewfinder, fiddly controls).
The 20D/30D has a different sensor to the 350D even though they are notionally both 8MP, it's slightly higher resolution and obviously more readout channels but I'm not sure if the differences go beyond that. So even a 10MP 40D would have a "better" sensor than the 400D...
splidge
|
|
|
|
03/14/2007 06:35:40 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Patents4u:
Originally posted by dewdodesign:
But it's hard to know what the difference actually is between the 5D in the semi-pro category and the 400D in the amateur category especially when there is all this talk about Megapixels which makes it sound like the 400D is miles better than the 5D which in reality it probably isn't? |
I'm in this same boat - wanting to upgrade, but no urgency. I'll just note that in addition to a much larger sensor, the 5D is 12.8 Megapixels and the 400D is 10.1, so I don't know how that makes the 400D seem miles better? |
I actually got a bit confused and didn't realise the 5D had that many Megapixels.... but then that just goes to prove that it's not so easy to understand the differences between these cameras. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 06:56:24 PM · #47 |
technicals put to the side, have you held a 5d in your hands? i believe a camera has to feel right, for me the 5d is just so comfortable to use even in the streets where a bigger size is not really a good thing.
This camera just makes sense. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 07:21:52 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
I am in a similar boat. I have had my 350D for 5, almost 6, years now. |
Wow....it was only announced 2 years ago. :P
bazz. |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 07:53:41 PM · #49 |
| lol there is no harm in a little exaggeration ;o) |
|
|
|
03/14/2007 08:12:43 PM · #50 |
Ya, back when I was using my 5D in the 70s people gave me some funny looks. Crop sensors were definitely all the rage until at least 1978.
|
|
