Borders. What's legal, what isn't?

03/10/2007 12:52:02 PM · #1

Ok. I've been hanging around here at DPC for a couple of years and my question about borders at first glance seems to be a no-brainer, but finding clear-cut rules is a bit difficult on borders. Searched the forums and found some feedback, although in some cases the questions were still fuzzy.

Lately I've seen several borders that caught my interest but not many of them have made it into the winners circle (won ribbons). If they had, then I'd know they've been validated as to meeting the rules. Of course, not winning a ribbon say's something also - use creative borders at your own risk for scoring! :D

Here are a few examples I've seen recently that have me curious.

Example #1

Example #2

Example #3

On Example #1 I've also seen them where there is only a top/bottom black band, with no border on the side (couldn't find one while putting this together).

In the Basic & Advanced Editing rules the only verbiage about border I can see is this:

You may:
"add a border to the outside edge of your entry. Your border must be distinct and clearly recognizable as a border."

You may not:
"add graphics, clip art, computer-rendered images or parts of other photographs to your entry or its border during editing."
"add text to your entry or its border during editing. This includes copyright statements."

In the forums (limited to 2006/2007) I searched I found this feedback:

(SC member) "Drop-shadow legal for advanced, not basic"
(SC member) "Do not need to be symmetrical, and theres no real limit"

Question asked about if it's "legal to feather a border in basic editing?"
Answer (SC member) "It is, if it clearly IS a border, not a vignette.

Sure would be nice to have a tutorial, with examples, of what's legal or not pertaining to borders. Just a thought.

Sigma 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM

03/10/2007 01:03:37 PM · #2

AFAIK, unless I'm having a brain-fart (possible, LOL) there is no difference in what is legal for borders in Advanced vs. Basic. Both rulesets have exactly the same language pertaining to borders. The Basic Rules limitations do not apply to the border area. The only limitations on borders are that artwork and text cannot be added in the border. For example, you cannot add a frame with fake woodgrain around your image.
Specifically, with regard to drop shadows and Basic, I submitted this shot:

in Classic Editing (The precursor of Basic) and it went through DQ review successfully. I'm sure there are other examples that support the legality of drop shadow borders in Basic, but I'd hate to try to dig them up!

Alain

Nikon D7100

03/10/2007 01:11:10 PM · #3

The following pic was disqualified because of it's border....

It looks like using vignetting for a border is a no no.

Blue Moon

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

03/10/2007 01:16:05 PM · #4

for example 1, I see no problem at all. It is easily recognized as a border and the rules don't state anything about the border dimensions, so it's fine (even if the y-border is 1000 and the x-border is only one, that's up to the photographer.

For example 2, I can see where it can be a little tricky, theyve done quite a bit of burning, so that makes the border kinda blend in like this one

.

For example 3, I don't think that qualifies as a feathered boreder, simple a trasparent one.

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/10/2007 01:37:15 PM · #5

This was not legal because of this clause...

Your border must be distinct and clearly recognizable as a border

RainMotorsports

Nikon D60

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

03/10/2007 01:39:31 PM · #6

Originally posted by Alain:

The following pic was disqualified because of it's border....

It looks like using vignetting for a border is a no no.

Well in basic editing that method wouldnt be.

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

03/10/2007 01:41:13 PM · #7

lol - gotta' add a touch of controversial nostalgia to the mix:

Was such an uproar over this one...

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

03/10/2007 01:41:32 PM · #8

Originally posted by Alain:

The following pic was disqualified because of it's border....

It looks like using vignetting for a border is a no no.

This is, pardon the pun, a gray area. At what point does a highly-feathered border become a vignette? That's one reason for the "clearly recognizable as a border" language. The other reason is borders that blend with the background and appear to increase the image area (change the framing).

RainMotorsports

Nikon D60

03/10/2007 01:45:43 PM · #9

Originally posted by Brad:

lol - gotta' add a touch of controversial nostalgia to the mix:

Was such an uproar over this one...

I read in another border thread sometime in the past week and they said the rule was written to prevent this exact kind of border.

Brad's the reason they keep changing rules!

Message edited by author 2007-03-10 13:46:23.

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/10/2007 01:46:52 PM · #10

Originally posted by Brad:

lol - gotta' add a touch of controversial nostalgia to the mix:

Was such an uproar over this one...

Sorry about that! ;-)

03/10/2007 01:51:32 PM · #11

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Example #2

This one looks like a picture frame that you can choose using special framing effects. This is ok for basic? I know this particular image is from an advanced challenge, but basic/advanced rules read the same for borders.

03/10/2007 01:59:46 PM · #12

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Example #2

This one looks like a picture frame that you can choose using special framing effects. This is ok for basic? I know this particular image is from an advanced challenge, but basic/advanced rules read the same for borders.

If it's a legal border in Advanced, it's legal in Basic, IMO. The key here is that there is no artwork in the border area, though the transition from photo to border is "ragged." These do fall into a judgmental area, of course, since the pattern in the transition area could be viewed as artwork. Historically, we've tended to take a relatively liberal view on this, but please do tread carefully in this area. Also remember that my posts are the best-effort opinions of one SC member only.

03/10/2007 07:48:06 PM · #13

Never did find an example of the widescreen border look, so I made one myself. :D

Would this border pass validation as a challenge entry? Thanks.

KarenNfld

03/10/2007 07:55:50 PM · #14

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Never did find an example of the widescreen border look, so I made one myself. :D

Would this border pass validation as a challenge entry? Thanks.

Yes indeed!

03/10/2007 09:19:32 PM · #15

Originally posted by KarenNfld:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Never did find an example of the widescreen border look, so I made one myself. :D

Would this border pass validation as a challenge entry? Thanks.

Yes indeed!

Ummm...I have that in my favorites! :D Geeezzz.

However, as much as I enjoyed that image, it didn't make the top 5 for the challenge, so I still don't have positive confirmation that this type of border would pass validation.

I really like the way this type of "border" looks, but not sure that it's really a border, per se, as it's only on two sides. If you add a 1 pixel border to the left/right sides does that make a difference? Also, is there a point at which the border goes beyond what constitutes a border (I know you can't use the same color to basically extend the image)? For example, I used 30 pixels top/bottom on the example, would it matter (except for voting opinions I know) if I had used 60 pixels instead?

03/11/2007 09:05:44 PM · #16

Any chance on getting a definitive answer on the last example posted (with top/bottom border only) from a SC member? Perhaps a formal ticket is better suited?

Please and thank you. :D

03/11/2007 09:31:22 PM · #17

Yes, the top/bottom only border is acceptable, as long as it clearly functions as a border (doesn't blend into the image).