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06/24/2003 12:35:12 PM · #1 |
Hi,
in my image editor "The Gimp" I have a filter called "Selective Gaussian Blur" (in the Filters->Blur menu). "Selective" does not mean that I chose an area in the photo where the filter is applied but that the algorithm itself only blurs up to a certain level of detail (I guess similar to the unsharp mask filter). There is a description of the filter in the manual here.
My question now is: Is that filter allowed on DPC?
I would really like to use it, because it's the most effective filter for noise reduction. I think that prorams like Neatimage use the same algorithm.
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06/24/2003 12:37:28 PM · #2 |
Isn´t this effect like the Smart Blur in PS 7 ?
I would think it is allowed because it affects the whole image. Hence it is not a spot editing tool...
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06/24/2003 12:57:08 PM · #3 |
It looks like it is the same as setting parameters for the Gaussian Blur filter in Photoshop. Although the image is processed in "chunks" it appears to be a processing-based need and it is "selecting" areas to process based on location rather than the pixel characteristics.
I think as long as to completely apply the filter to the entire image it should be OK. If you were to somehow interrupt the process so that different sections received a different amount of processing (not what you intend, I know) I thnk it would not be OK.
Can I suggest you post some small examples of before & after processing on a photo (or piece of one) similar to what you want to do? I think it would help us make a decisions like this if we could actually see the effect.
Message edited by author 2003-06-24 12:57:52. |
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06/24/2003 11:03:43 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Can I suggest you post some small examples of before & after processing on a photo (or piece of one) similar to what you want to do? I think it would help us make a decisions like this if we could actually see the effect. |
I searched for a good example photo and I think I found it.
A - Original: look the grainy clouds (I love them! ;-))
B - Selective Gaussian Blur: notice that the clouds are blurred while the edge of the skyline is not
C - Normal Gaussian Blur: for comparison a normal Gaussian Blur with the same pixel range. Everything is blurry.
Btw: Here is a noise removal tutorial, which also has before&after examples.
Message edited by author 2003-06-24 23:04:14.
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06/24/2003 11:52:40 PM · #5 |
I can see why you'd want to use it, but would have some concern seeing the results, as the program does selectively apply (or not) the effect depending on the characteristics of the underlying pixels.
I think you should send the admins a note with a link to this thread for a definitive ruling. Use the Contact link under the Help menu. |
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06/26/2003 06:30:47 AM · #6 |
I've cut and pasted this section directly from the rules page. Gaussian blur is mentioned specifically as being OK. Hope this helps.
[quote]
Filters: The use of filters (or non-Photoshop equivalent) is strictly limited. Any filter or stand-alone utility designed and used to preserve the integrity of the image and/or reduce the effects of noise, scratches, etc, are permitted. These include but are not limited to the Sharpen, Unsharp Mask, and Dust & Scratches filters, and standalone image cleanup utilities such as NeatImage. However, no effects filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian blur, the two of which are allowed. Any filter permitted by this rule must be applied uniformly to the entire image. Selective application of the filter is prohibited.
[unquote]
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06/26/2003 06:37:24 AM · #7 |
| I'm almost 100% sure it's illegal. I wish it wasn't too. |
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06/26/2003 07:19:17 AM · #8 |
It would be like using Smart Blur which isn't mentioned in the filter exceptions therefore I would think it illegal... snif snif...
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06/26/2003 07:57:40 AM · #9 |
I doubt it's legal. Since it affected only part of your image, some people are scared of it.
Welcome to DPC! ;)
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06/26/2003 08:20:09 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Koriyama:
I've cut and pasted this section directly from the rules page. Gaussian blur is mentioned specifically as being OK. Hope this helps.
[quote]
Filters: The use of filters (or non-Photoshop equivalent) is strictly limited. Any filter or stand-alone utility designed and used to preserve the integrity of the image and/or reduce the effects of noise, scratches, etc, are permitted. These include but are not limited to the Sharpen, Unsharp Mask, and Dust & Scratches filters, and standalone image cleanup utilities such as NeatImage. However, no effects filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian blur, the two of which are allowed. Any filter permitted by this rule must be applied uniformly to the entire image. Selective application of the filter is prohibited.
[unquote] |
Gaussian blurr is mentioned, but this is something totally different. It's SELECTIVE Gaussian blurr. Gaussian blurr is applied to the whole image, this isn't. Which it said "Selective application of the filter is prohibited". And I think that might make this effect not legal. It's being discussed by the site council, please wait for the final decission. hehe...had to say that, it sounded "important".
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06/26/2003 08:43:21 AM · #11 |
Exactly.
;)
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
It's being discussed by the site council, please wait for the final decission. hehe...had to say that, it sounded "important". |
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06/26/2003 08:44:33 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Another note -- I know the name 'Selective Gaussian blur' makes this filter scary -- but it's the filter algorithm that makes the selection, not the user. Nearly ALL filters are selective -- certainly unsharp mask and sharpen among them -- the difference is we have allowed this when it is the filter and not the user making the selection.
As far as I can tell this filter does exactly the same thing NeatImage does (noise reduction in areas of lesser detail).
-Terry |
Thank you Terry, I just was going to write exactly the same. These are my points.
I wish the would have named it "Somehow selective but still applied to the whole image gaussian blur" ;-)
And if it helps... When "standalone image cleanup utilities such as NeatImage" (which is not available for my platform) are allowed then I'll find a way to write a standalone script which only executes this function from The Gimp :)
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06/26/2003 12:14:40 PM · #13 |
Why is Gaussian blur the only blur allowed? Or are more allowed?
since we are on the subject...is there something that is equal to neat image for Mac?
I find that I get a lot of noise with some of my shots, and therefore can't use them. I use despeckle with some success, but it definitely softens the pic. Sometimes I want that, sometimes I don't.
Also, any advise on how to shoot with less noise? Is there a tutorial?
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06/26/2003 12:25:02 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by TerryGee:
Also, any advise on how to shoot with less noise? Is there a tutorial? |
Nope. There isn't.. anyone wanna volunteer?
;P
(Hey Terry! How are you? <big wave>)
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06/26/2003 12:31:10 PM · #15 |
Shooting with less noise... use low iso numbers and as short of an exposure time as possble.
My 707 shoots impecable low noise images at iso 100 with exposures at about any length.
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06/26/2003 12:45:52 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by TerryGee:
Also, any advise on how to shoot with less noise? Is there a tutorial? |
Shoot with lots of light.
If you want a low-light-looking shot, shoot it with lots of light and darken it later. It seems if the sensor can't see what you're shooting, it makes stuff up - hence the noise. For my BoB shot, it was REALLY noisy at low light, so I shot it fairly bright and fixed it after.
Of course, it promises to be my lowest score ever, so what do I know? :) |
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07/17/2003 10:46:05 AM · #17 |
Was there any decision already?
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07/17/2003 10:50:39 AM · #18 |
No admin has stated anything definitive, and I don't think the Rules page has changed, but I did find this poll result:
DPChallenge Administration :: Manage Polls :: Poll Results
Should selective gaussian blur be allowed? (See site council discussion)
Yes 9
9 users participated.
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07/17/2003 12:33:37 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I can see why you'd want to use it, but would have some concern seeing the results, as the program does selectively apply (or not) the effect depending on the characteristics of the underlying pixels. |
I recall seeing a picture on this site where a green pepper was turned blue by adjusting colors.//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=21115 Isn't that selectively changing the underlying pixels with green characteristics? Why should this be any different? There are a lot of adjustments you can apply to the whole image that would only affect certain pixels. Selective color only changes selective colors. Curves can selectively change pixels in a certain range. Just about everything Photoshop does is based on the characteristics of the underlying pixels.
Message edited by author 2003-07-17 12:35:57. |
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07/17/2003 06:56:43 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Yes 9
9 users participated. |
Thank you for the info, Paul. That's good news :) I'm not sure if the rules actually need to be updated or not but now I'm assured that this filter is considered to be ok. Thanks a lot!
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07/17/2003 07:07:39 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by thelsel:
I recall seeing a picture on this site where a green pepper was turned blue by adjusting colors.//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=21115 Isn't that selectively changing the underlying pixels with green characteristics? |
Yes, but the big difference is that the algorithm is applied to the whole image and not only parts of it. When you compose your photo clever enough to make use of this colour shifting effect then to me that's smart usage of your possibilities :)
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