BAH ... My thread re: Street Photography locked!

02/16/2007 08:55:57 PM · #26

Originally posted by TooCool:

For what it's worth, I sent in the ticket about your outtake thread. I'm one of the people that raised hell about outtake threads until the current forum rules were implemented. I have always thought that posting outtakes before the end of a voting period takes away from the current challenge and can even deter people from entering. How would you like it if you entered a shot in a challenge. Then in the forums you saw someone elses shot that was kinda like yours but WAY better. How would you feel? Would you pull it from the challenge? To do so would rob you of the learning opportunity wouldn't it?

I pretty much disagree completely with you.

What if you enter an image in a challenge and then see 15 others kinda like yours but most are WAY better, do you then withdraw from the challenge? How does that make you feel any different than seeing it in an outtakes thread beforehand? How does it enhance your learning experience to see your shot tank in a challenge vs. seeing how someone else interpreted a similar shot beforehand?

boysetsfire

Canon EOS-5D

02/16/2007 09:00:41 PM · #27

I can't believe I just wasted my time reading this thread. I feel robbed.
Get over it your putting a damper on the challenge

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/16/2007 11:19:13 PM · #28

Originally posted by TooCool:

I would feel cool about that. I would love it. I don't even know where your head is at.

02/16/2007 11:38:04 PM · #29

Originally posted by TooCool:

This doesn't make sense. The challenge hasn't started voting yet. I'm a avid "reporter" as well when I see "outtakes" posted while the challenge is in the voting stage, however, I don't get the enforcement beforehand. ???

There's ALWAYS discussion and images posted before a challenge gets into the voting stage. Bokeh would be a great example...

02/16/2007 11:40:06 PM · #30

FWIW - Here is the exact wording of the forum rule (from Forum Rules - Rule #2):

"2. Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed."

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

02/17/2007 02:30:25 AM · #31

IMO, and obviously the more vocal think otherwise, an outtake thread should be allowed beforehand. If you somehow feel that your entry will be lessened by seeing other people's outtakes then, DON"T LOOK AT THE OUTTAKE THREAD. How hard would that be?

Curious

Canon EOS-600D/T3i Rebel

02/17/2007 02:37:58 AM · #32

I also agree with this. I don't think the system (or the voter in general) is so fragile that seeing something that might look like something in a challenge is going to adversely affect the challenge results. I'm all for the "If you don't like it don't look approach" :)

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Greetmir

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Nikon

02/17/2007 02:58:17 AM · #33

Not to mention that the folder I was asking for critiques on (or ANYWHERE else in my portfolio for that matter) did not HAVE outtakes.

They were street photos but NO WHERE NEAR what I submitted to the challenge, so I would not call them outakes. But that thread got locked, but whatever ... It is not that HUGELY important to me any more ... I just don't understand it. I am not hating ANYONE ... I am just confused as to why people were so offended.

Anyways ... please let this thread die a dignified death so I don't feel like such an ogre ... and maybe start another thread regarding the advocacy of allowing outake threads?

Message edited by author 2007-02-17 03:00:45.

LanceW

Nikon Z9

Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D

02/17/2007 08:35:57 AM · #34

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I feel the opposite. There should be absolutely no discussion of your current photographs after the challenge topic has been announced. If you feel like discussing old images go for it.

nards656

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Tamron SP AF 24-135mm f/3.5-5.6 AD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/17/2007 08:51:50 AM · #35

Originally posted by Greetmir:

... I am just confused as to why people were so offended.

It's not a matter of being offended; it's a rule. There's a difference. You seem to infer that only someone who is offended would want the rule enforced. That's incorrect.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

02/17/2007 09:32:39 AM · #36

Originally posted by nards656:

Originally posted by Greetmir:
... I am just confused as to why people were so offended.

It's not a matter of being offended; it's a rule. ...

The rule needs clarification then because the way it's worded I read it to mean no outtakes once the voting has started. Looking at the rule in retrospect there isn't a timeframe put on it.

The rule:

"2. Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed."

Nikon D200

02/17/2007 09:42:42 AM · #37

The original discussion for the poll here.

nards656

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Tamron SP AF 24-135mm f/3.5-5.6 AD Aspherical IF for Canon

02/17/2007 09:46:26 AM · #38

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by nards656:

Originally posted by Greetmir:
... I am just confused as to why people were so offended.

It's not a matter of being offended; it's a rule. ...

The rule needs clarification then because the way it's worded I read it to mean no outtakes once the voting has started. Looking at the rule in retrospect there isn't a timeframe put on it.

The rule:

"2. Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed."

I disagree, Barry. It's a very clear time frame. "Until voting has ended" means that only after voting has ended can specific challenge entries or outtakes be discussed. There is no exemption for "prior to voting beginning", so it means that outtakes and entries cannot be discussed at ANY time prior to the end of voting. Very clear. You're reading "during voting" into a statement that does not include that language.

"2. Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended."

02/17/2007 11:30:52 AM · #39

Originally posted by nards656:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by nards656:

Originally posted by Greetmir:
... I am just confused as to why people were so offended.

It's not a matter of being offended; it's a rule. ...

The rule needs clarification then because the way it's worded I read it to mean no outtakes once the voting has started. Looking at the rule in retrospect there isn't a timeframe put on it.

The rule:

"2. Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed."

I disagree, Barry. It's a very clear time frame. "Until voting has ended" means that only after voting has ended can specific challenge entries or outtakes be discussed. There is no exemption for "prior to voting beginning", so it means that outtakes and entries cannot be discussed at ANY time prior to the end of voting. Very clear. You're reading "during voting" into a statement that does not include that language.

"2. Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended."

Right, but voting hasn't started yet.

Edit to add, perhaps it should read "From the time the challenge is announced continuing through the end of the challenge voting period".

Message edited by author 2007-02-17 11:32:13.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

02/17/2007 11:54:09 AM · #40

Originally posted by tooohip:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
IMO, and obviously the more vocal think otherwise, an outtake thread should be allowed beforehand. If you somehow feel that your entry will be lessened by seeing other people's outtakes then, DON"T LOOK AT THE OUTTAKE THREAD. How hard would that be?

I feel the opposite. There should be absolutely no discussion of your current photographs after the challenge topic has been announced. If you feel like discussing old images go for it.

You are incapable of not opening an outtake thread? Are you being controlled by someone else? Aliens maybe? Is there some "AutoOpenOuttakeThread" script running on your computer?

Canon EOS-20D

02/17/2007 12:03:27 PM · #41

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I agree. If we want to stress learning on this site, I don't understand quashing all discussion about something until it's over and done with and no one really cares anymore.

02/17/2007 12:03:40 PM · #42

Originally posted by nards656:

No, it's not clear at all, the only part of the time frame that is defined is the end. The beginning is left to the readers imagination.

In the case of a common type of photography, like macro or street photography, would you have ALL existing threads on the subject that contained images locked even if that thread was years old? What about posting new images to that thread during the challenge? Even if they are totally dissimilar to any entry?

How does seeing an outtake that you think is "better" than your entry affect you any more than seeing existing images, possibly years old, that are also "better" than yours? Do people look at the work others have done, perhaps over a period of a lifetime, and get so discouraged with their entry that they just give up?

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/17/2007 12:27:18 PM · #43

I'm for restricting outtakes while the challenge is actively in voting. What I found odd about what started this thread in the first place is that the 'Street' challenge hasn't entered the voting stage yet.

My biggest concern/beef about outtakes while the challenge is actively voting is the inevitable commentary that follows that posted outtake. Comments about how it "does/does not meet the challenge", comments like "this would have been the easy way out...I'd have voted it #". This kind of discourse can influence (unfairly IMO) the mindset of the voters, again while the challenge is actively being voted on.

soup

Canon EOS-30D

02/17/2007 01:50:19 PM · #44

from now on there will be absolutley no discussion of anything vaguely related to the currently enterable challenges as well as those in the voting stage. this includes, but is not limited to, posting related photos, linking to others related photos, wikipedia, or like, definitions of challenge topics, posting your interpretation of a challenge topic, hinting at the fact you have a good image to enter - were at a location that could be in any way shape or form considered to be related to the challenge topic - or that you live by the beach, posting your score, whether a lie or true while voting is underway, etc.

any violation of the above will result in an immediate two week suspension from forums posting....

is this where DPC is headed?
//forums.somethingawful.com/banlist.php

all this bickering really bothers me so much more than someone posting an image that might be considered an outtake.

aren't we supposed to relax during the weekend?

Greetmir

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Nikon

02/17/2007 11:21:46 PM · #45

... that is SOME bizarre site!

RainMotorsports

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

02/17/2007 11:29:19 PM · #46

Originally posted by Greetmir:

... that is SOME bizarre site!

"BAN 02/17/07 08:17pm Daxflame Candle in the wind."

WTF kind of ban reason is that?

soup

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/18/2007 10:21:39 AM · #47

plus you can be banned for any reason 10 minutes after paying $10 to set up and account. if you join there you better read the rules !!

Greetmir