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01/04/2007 08:10:22 PM · #351 |
On a side note... I got a comment from  Larus on my Harsh Environment today! He didn't like the processing but liked the composition.
Message edited by author 2007-01-04 20:11:03.
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01/04/2007 09:24:55 PM · #352 |
 xianart, NikonJeb and bmartuch thanks for tips on constructive critcism on low votes. Christian, I think you should conider a career in professional diplomacy :-) |
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01/04/2007 09:47:46 PM · #353 |
Originally posted by kdsprog:
On a side note... I got a comment from Larus on my Harsh Environment today! He didn't like the processing but liked the composition. |
I got a long comment from Larus on my Harsh too. I think he is trying for a Yappie. May be the only award he hasn't gotten yet. ; P Actually it was very informative, and started me on a treasure hunt that has paid off. I learned quite a lot. I was just getting ready to thank him. |
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01/04/2007 10:06:26 PM · #354 |
Originally posted by noraneko:
...Christian, I think you should conider a career in professional diplomacy :-) |
i was a high school art teacher. that's pretty close!
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01/04/2007 10:21:07 PM · #355 |
Originally posted by kdsprog:
On a side note... I got a comment from Larus on my Harsh Environment today! He didn't like the processing but liked the composition. |
Gave me 3 - he did justify it though, bastid...
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01/04/2007 10:22:21 PM · #356 |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
Originally posted by kdsprog:
On a side note... I got a comment from Larus on my Harsh Environment today! He didn't like the processing but liked the composition. |
I got a long comment from Larus on my Harsh too. I think he is trying for a Yappie. May be the only award he hasn't gotten yet. ; P Actually it was very informative, and started me on a treasure hunt that has paid off. I learned quite a lot. I was just getting ready to thank him. |
He must be doing it across the board....I got a complimentary comment as well.
Can we talk percentages?
How many of us try and comment as often as possible?
I do, except if I'm tired and cranky and realize that I'm running out of time to make my votes count.
I also try to vote on every entry in the 150 or less category.
Or am I nuts?
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01/04/2007 10:28:42 PM · #357 |
i try to vote on all a challenge once i start, then go back and comment after finishing voting. if there's time. starting withthe lowest scores. as you can tell from my abysmal comments given to received ratio, i'm not doing very well with that.
i did just get one onmy centred pic, from someone who seems to really get it: this is really cool... can't stop looking at it for some reason.
most others don't seem to see it. oops, guess i'm OOB again. what a surprise...
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01/04/2007 10:33:19 PM · #358 |
Originally posted by noraneko:
Question for the Team: I hate voting low (usually don't vote below a 5 unless lack of effort is obvious), and hate the whole "troll" thing. But sometimes there are photos that are just ... utterly awful (out of focus, totally under or overexposed, you get the idea). What do you say in comments when you don't even know where to start? I really hate giving a 2, 3 or 4 without comments. Any tips are appreciated, as some of you have much for technical expertise than I. |
BTW Catherine, I think you give wonderfully constructive comments. I generally try to learn about commenting from you. But that said, here's how I usually vote and comment.
I start with the premise that 5 is average. Then I go up or down from there, taking into account my gut reaction, technical merit, and effort. I generally score 5 or higher, because quite frankly, the photography on this site can be awesome.
When I feel something doesn't meet the challenge, I'll deduct a couple of points unless I feel there wasn't even an effort to comply (e.g. just throwing in your best shot of the week). In that case I will take the score down to 3 or lower, but explain why I did it. Also if something really ticks me off (e.g. a graphic shot of a dead cat, or a mechanical instrument thrown in purely for shock value), I may give a '1', and I will say why. BTW that usually makes the photographer REALLY mad.
Finally on shots that are just bad (crooked and faded and poorly composed, etc), I'll give a low score, and try to be specific about what made me vote low. It's hard to tell what the person has in the way of editing software, so I would just say something like, "The shot appears overexposed on my monitor, and it would help a lot if the horizon was straight. The subject needs to be in sharper focus, and cropping away some of the left side might also help." Then I try to end with something I like about it.
Here's something helpful I learned in a business writing class. If you have to give bad news, put it in a good news sandwich. Good news: "I like what you are trying to do here." Bad news: "The focus needs to be sharper, and the bright spot in the upper right pulls the attention away from your subject." Good news: "The composition is good though, and some Photoshop work could fix those problems." |
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01/04/2007 11:23:01 PM · #359 |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
I start with the premise that 5 is average. Then I go up or down from there, taking into account my gut reaction, technical merit, and effort. I generally score 5 or higher, because quite frankly, the photography on this site can be awesome. |
I'm going to piggyback this 'cause I just learned a lot, wanna give my impressions 'cause I have a hard time figuring how votes are cast, and have some questions.
I like the style you suggest, but I have to wonder if you're maybe generally nicer than most. From what I've seen and use here, 4 to 7 is the range of the majority of voting, and that 5 is a good clean, albeit not necessarily notable shot that meets the challenge. I also get the impression that 10s are reserved for seriously spectacular pics that really do not come along that often......I feel that I've voted in some challenges where there was no 10s at all.
Originally posted by JulieBoc:
When I feel something doesn't meet the challenge, I'll deduct a couple of points unless I feel there wasn't even an effort to comply (e.g. just throwing in your best shot of the week). In that case I will take the score down to 3 or lower, but explain why I did it. Also if something really ticks me off (e.g. a graphic shot of a dead cat, or a mechanical instrument thrown in purely for shock value), I may give a '1', and I will say why. BTW that usually makes the photographer REALLY mad. |
I must admit, I'm guilty of the "Throw in a last ditch effort" syndrome, 'cause I actually do learn from some of the less than polite remarks that I get. I once actually sandbagged an entry just because I wanted a barometer of voting....I got the answers I needed, and kind of expected, and learned what I wanted to about voting in that instance. It was almost more educational than a "real" entry because it was kind of a controlled beta test.
Originally posted by JulieBoc:
Finally on shots that are just bad (crooked and faded and poorly composed, etc), I'll give a low score, and try to be specific about what made me vote low. It's hard to tell what the person has in the way of editing software, so I would just say something like, "The shot appears overexposed on my monitor, and it would help a lot if the horizon was straight. The subject needs to be in sharper focus, and cropping away some of the left side might also help." Then I try to end with something I like about it. |
Yeah......it's that pesky conscience thing.....do unto others! 8>)
Originally posted by JulieBoc:
Here's something helpful I learned in a business writing class. If you have to give bad news, put it in a good news sandwich. Good news: "I like what you are trying to do here." Bad news: "The focus needs to be sharper, and the bright spot in the upper right pulls the attention away from your subject." Good news: "The composition is good though, and some Photoshop work could fix those problems." |
I like your style!
Thanks for your insight and I hope you don't mind my glomming onto a few tips from your technique!
BTW....I am a particular fan of sunrises/sunsets, and this with the rays and silhouetted trees is just an out-and-out work of art!!!!! The clouds and the color of the sky.....it's a fav!
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01/05/2007 12:41:45 AM · #360 |
Umm...how can I get a Team Suck critique on a photo?
I'd love one on this one I did for Harsh Environments:
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=443917
BTW.....this being TS Headquarters, do I post all of my across the spectrum questions to and about the team here???
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01/05/2007 02:13:04 AM · #361 |
I think questions would go here, yes!
And check the photo for a couple new comments :-) |
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01/05/2007 02:16:54 AM · #362 |
okay okay...
im getting beaten to death in the scoring for centered and free study because i threw in some of my street shots.
tommorow im going to take some of the shots i know im good at and bring up the scores for entropy.
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01/05/2007 02:21:05 AM · #363 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
I dunno if you're yanking my chain or what, but this guy has been so terrific....he's taught me more in the last six months than I've ever learned. I have talked to various people here and have found that most are more than willing to share ideas and give suggestions.
Besides, aren't you kinda good? Why are you here????? 8>) |
No, I wasn't yanking your chain - I really do think mentors are a great idea - just wondering how you came by one.
And thanks - but I'm not that good by DPC standards, I don't think. Friends and family think I rock, though, and that's a whole lot more important. :-) |
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01/05/2007 02:27:02 AM · #364 |
On voting - my normal procedure is to vote 100% of challenges I enter. Since I've rediscovered dial-up at home, this isn't quite possible. I do try to comment on at least 20% of the pictures I vote on. I've commented 100% on several occasions. For scores, I've only rarely given 3s or below; I do give 4s but not very many. I rarely give 10s. I will usually give a handful of 9s and everything else tends to fall in between. I tend to give a lot more 6s than 5s, too.
I like how quite often we comment on other Team Suck members' shots without knowing they're Team Suck shots. That says more about taste and style than technical proficiency, I think. |
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01/05/2007 02:27:37 AM · #365 |
| Just 'cause you're not scoring well with a street shot doesn't mean that you're not good at it. I don't think people appreciate street shots the way that studio shots are appreciated. |
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01/05/2007 02:29:53 AM · #366 |
Originally posted by klstover:
Just 'cause you're not scoring well with a street shot doesn't mean that you're not good at it. I don't think people appreciate street shots the way that studio shots are appreciated. |
I second this. Look at some of the stuff  Pawdrix does - rarely scores well but I really enjoy his work. |
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01/05/2007 04:31:19 AM · #367 |
Originally posted by klstover:
Just 'cause you're not scoring well with a street shot doesn't mean that you're not good at it. I don't think people appreciate street shots the way that studio shots are appreciated. |
I would qualify that in that at "dpchallenge" street shots are not appreciated as a genre.
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01/05/2007 04:35:37 AM · #368 |
Harsh
Team Novice --  
Team Minus --  
The Hoovers -- 
Out of Focusers --  
Team Entropy --  
Chasing Butterflies --  
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01/05/2007 06:20:28 AM · #369 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
No, I wasn't yanking your chain - I really do think mentors are a great idea - just wondering how you came by one. |
Okay! I was just surprised 'cause from what I see, you know what you're doing. I ended up with a mentor through a comment I made on a pic of his. This one.....
I commented that it was one of the most heart-wrenching gutsy pics with feeling I had ever seen and for some reason, that sparked a conversation. When I then found out that the man is 24 and that his skills for imagery are just plain natural, I just asked him if he would mind giving me his thoughts if I posed him questions. He graciously said yes and I've been bugging the sh*t out of him ever since. His help and advice, coupled with his knowledge and talent have raised my scores a full point in the last couple months. I also understand what I'm doing now instead of just flying through hoping that the eye I've been graced with was enough to carry me. I have some control over the end result of the picture since he's helped me both with how to actually work my camera to achieve the results I want. And his help on learning post-processing has been priceless.
Shameless flattery, given honestly worked for me!8>)
Originally posted by Melethia:
And thanks - but I'm not that good by DPC standards, I don't think. Friends and family think I rock, though, and that's a whole lot more important. :-) |
Hey, my friends and family, people I work with, the folks at my church, and people who have bought my pictures think I'm pretty decent. This is just a school/educational experience at the school of hard knocks/life/reality for me.
What's really nice is that I seem to have found a group of like-minded folks who willl give me the structured commentary that I have so desperately been seeking.
I still think you're good!
"That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!"-Jimmy Buffett 1989
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 08:17:21.
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01/05/2007 07:47:27 AM · #370 |
there ya go, i gave you two alternate edits of the hoe sweet home, which is a nice image, by the way.
of course, alternate edits are purely subjective, and just what i would do with the pic. but it's always interesting to see what others would do, then you can take ideas and adapt them for your own use.
that's all artists do anyway - steal ideas and change them for themselves. there's very little out there that's truly original - we all feed off each other.
that's not being cynical, i think it's great. it's called learning!
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01/05/2007 08:42:12 AM · #371 |
WOW!!!! Thanks guys!!!!
Okay.....The black and white one didn't do it for me because of the loss of detail....it *IS* harsher looking!!! Though mine is flat, and that was half intentional though I *was* exasperated that it was *THAT* flat, I was looking for the bleak look and I just didn't get it as well as I could have. I'm still afraid of my CS2 to a certain extent.....I've only had a digital camera since July, and CS2 since about November. Explanation, not rationale.....8>)
I like this! It's sharper and brighter without losing the bleak/desolate look....definitely woulda done better...Thank you, Mary, I may bug you for help later.....8>) I see you're a fellow Pennsylvanian with a thing for cats. This was my second place choice for my B&W entry.
Now this one......
Man, that's just NASTY!!!!
I'd have gotten a full point more for that'un! That fits my description of bleak and harsh in a big way! You somehow managed to make that place look even more dilapidated yet sharper.....I have to learn how to do that.
BTW, I don't know what you go by from your name....Chris, Christian; but I love the "Serial Emigrator" description! Is having a "Funny" sense of humor a prerequisite here or just a bonus?
Okay, thanks folks.....question time....
Is the difference between a street shot and a studio shot the difference between set up/staged and candid, or is it a physical indoor/outdoor difference?
And what's bumping up?
Y'all did catch from my description that people actually live in that place, right?
It is directly across the street from an elementary school, too!
Message edited by author 2007-01-05 08:43:40.
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01/05/2007 08:50:01 AM · #372 |
xianart you're my Photoshop hero! Not that NikonJeb's photo wasn't interesting to start with - it definitely is - but your P&S treatment really made it pop. Now if only I could send you my raw files pre-challenge.
I actually just bought PS 6.0 (currently using elements) and need to load it on my machine. I think I'd better order the Dummies book while I'm at it... |
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01/05/2007 09:00:24 AM · #373 |
thanks jeb, having a warped sense of humour definitely helps. i blame my parents - they raised me with monty python...
cs2 is a vertical learning curve. i went digital in june of 2005, and got cs2 a year later. experiment experiment experiment. i bought the alien skins exposure add on program, and like what it does through non-destructive filters - it creates a new layer rather than working on your base layer.
street shooting is usually urban, candid. for the history see weegee, and brassai, and model, and arbus, and.... there are many.
street shooting could be indoors, in a bar, etc., but the usual flavour is of candid, often 'gritty', sometimes disturbing, unposed, etc. it's what i used to do when in university, until real life intervened, i had to make a living, was broke, and then had a kid and moved to the country. now it's nature and friends and family for me...
street shooting needs some cojones, as sometimes the people don't want their pic snapped. i've been sworn at a few times. i do believe it's asier for women to get away with it, as people tend to see us as less threatening...
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01/05/2007 09:03:45 AM · #374 |
Originally posted by noraneko:
xianart you're my Photoshop hero! Not that NikonJeb's photo wasn't interesting to start with - it definitely is - but your P&S treatment really made it pop. Now if only I could send you my raw files pre-challenge.
I actually just bought PS 6.0 (currently using elements) and need to load it on my machine. I think I'd better order the Dummies book while I'm at it... |
oo, nooo! i'm still learning lots and lots and lots. i bought a book on cs2, but find the magazines much more useful - and cheaper! photoshop user, layers, and pro digital imaging are all good, but there are lots of others about.
if you want to get cs2 (and i would definitely reccomend it), see if you can find a firend whos in university. that way you can get it at 1/3 of the cost as a 'student'. the price will probably also go down now that cs3 is out.
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01/05/2007 09:17:31 AM · #375 |
Originally posted by raish:
Originally posted by kdsprog:
On a side note... I got a comment from Larus on my Harsh Environment today! He didn't like the processing but liked the composition. |
Gave me 3 - he did justify it though, bastid... |
How do you know who gave you what?
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