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06/05/2003 10:55:59 AM · #176 |
Hey, i did leave a nasty comment :) In fact, I almost got banned on this site for leaving a comment that says "Um, that looks like someone has just puked over the canvas" because that's what it reminded me of when I saw it. He had 3-4 colors (brownish, etc) over a canvas that basically reminded me of my early college days.
So now I guess when I find something I dont' like i'll write:
"I like it. But I gave you a 2" instead.
Originally posted by Gordon:
So no nasty comments or thoughtful criticism and ribbons for everyone then ? Sounds fantastic - no need to get better or try to improve. Everyone's a winner! Lets do this. We can tell everyone how great they are doing even when the pictures are terrible and have a big group hug each week ? |
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06/05/2003 11:01:16 AM · #177 |
Wasn't talking about YOU specifically, i am saying that this thread is now a rant :) Every month we have somethingl ike this, and it goes on and on, but nothing changes for the rules one way or the other.
if you want my view:
I think dodging and burning should be allowed. I don't think allowing removal of annoying backgrounds or adding elements into a photograph should be allowed. I think you should be however, allowed to remove dusts and hot pixels.
Originally posted by KarenB:
Originally posted by paganini:
it is EXACTLY a rant when the same topic has occured on a regular basis, and without resolution :)
Spot editing is apersonal choice -- i.e. what some photogs might consider as ethical, some might not. I'd consider removing or adding elements as unethical but increasing or decreasing contrast via dodging/burning as "normal". either case, there isn't going to be any resolution to this topic, it just reappears every 1 month or so.
Your #2 -- you can do what you want to do with your prints, why should you be limited by DPC rules? :) do you make every photograph DPC compliant?? Only if you submit, right? And is that ALL you're doing, is photographing for DPC? If so, i'd seriously suggest that you do more shooting elsewhere, in particular, for yourself.
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I do shoot photographs otherwise, and have been for years. I do use other editing tools. The point was that there are edits that famous and professional photographers use regularly and yet they are not unethical.
Again, this is not a rant. It is an exploratory discussion. Also, it is not about me personally, but about an idea on the whole. I don't understand how your answer to my #2 was applicable to my original statement.
Anyway..it doesn't sound to me like you have read this entire thread. Maybe a further review is needed so that you see it is not a rant, and to put in an opinion based with examples either for or against the issue.
Thanks :) |
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06/05/2003 11:01:54 AM · #178 |
[quote=paganini]Hey, i did leave a nasty comment :) In fact, I almost got banned on this site for leaving a comment that says "Um, that looks like someone has just puked over the canvas" because that's what it reminded me of when I saw it. He had 3-4 colors (brownish, etc) over a canvas that basically reminded me of my early college days.
So now I guess when I find something I dont' like i'll write:
"I like it. But I gave you a 2" instead.
quote]
its called having a little tact...you could have said personally i find this unappealing and have to wonder what it is. Would you care to elborate on this to me so I might understand it better and be able to vote with some knowlegde of what this is instead of what my first impression of what it is.
Actually I think I just sugar coated what you said but didn't offend anyone in say this is gross |
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06/05/2003 11:04:31 AM · #179 |
That's your approach, i'd rather just give them my honest opinion. Not sure why everyone is soooooo thin skinned on here. Make a comment, and you're automatically being nasty, etc. I have seen a lot more pointless comments like "your background is out of focus", as if all photographs should have hyperfocal distance set so that everything is in focus, but I don't bitch to the admin about it :)
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
[quote=paganini]Hey, i did leave a nasty comment :) In fact, I almost got banned on this site for leaving a comment that says "Um, that looks like someone has just puked over the canvas" because that's what it reminded me of when I saw it. He had 3-4 colors (brownish, etc) over a canvas that basically reminded me of my early college days.
So now I guess when I find something I dont' like i'll write:
"I like it. But I gave you a 2" instead.
quote]
its called having a little tact...you could have said personally i find this unappealing and have to wonder what it is. Would you care to elborate on this to me so I might understand it better and be able to vote with some knowlegde of what this is instead of what my first impression of what it is.
Actually I think I just sugar coated what you said but didn't offend anyone in say this is gross |
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06/05/2003 11:04:47 AM · #180 |
So no nasty comments or thoughtful criticism and ribbons for everyone then ? Sounds fantastic - no need to get better or try to improve. Everyone's a winner! Lets do this. We can tell everyone how great they are doing even when the pictures are terrible and have a big group hug each week ?
Your obviously lost and just trying to be argumentative. Its easy for you people who already know the field well and don't care about upcomers. Let's put it inot terms maybe you can understand. You wouldn't put a tee ball team up against a pro major league team and expect a fair game now would you? All we are saying is keep the existing way things work currently but add three classes to it so that there are more even classes. This way the beginners have a chance to grow and learn more before trying to compete with the pros. |
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06/05/2003 11:06:38 AM · #181 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships.- Ansel Adams
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Great quote!
Originally posted by Gordon:
Burning
A technique for selective lightening of an area of a print by giving it additional exposure. This is accomplished usually by blocking the projected image during exposure using the printer's hands, creating a small opening with them to let the light fall only on the selected image area. Because the hands cast a soft-edged shadow, this limits the ability to burn in small areas accurately. Sometimes this can be worked around by cutting an appropriately shaped hole in a piece of thin cardboard to wave over the picture.
Dodging
Holding back an area of an image during exposure to darken it. Done with the hands or a dodging tool, usually a thin piece of wire with a rough edged round shape on one end that casts a diffuse edged shadow on the paper.
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I'm confused.
I do this in practice in the darkroom (for B/W film photography and printing) but don't think much about whether I'm dodging or burning - I just do it.
When I let more light through my hands or a hole in the card I'm aiming to darken not lighten the affected area.
When I block light to an area during exposure I want it to be lighter.
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06/05/2003 11:07:27 AM · #182 |
That's just the way things are OSS. If you show your stuff to an audience, you can't expect them all to be nice about it. Don't know about others but i don't participate here to teach others, nor primarily to teach myself.
Perhaps we should be able to add a marker to a submitted image saying 'don't be nasty about my pic, I'm just starting out?'
If people can't cope with the disappointments, I'm rather afraid my answer would have to be 'tough'. It ain't the end of the world.
Ed
Some of us do however strive to get better and learn from the things we do rather than to become stagnant. |
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06/05/2003 11:08:04 AM · #183 |
Sorry for the repeat - I'd completely failed to notice page 2 of this thread!
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06/05/2003 11:10:44 AM · #184 |
| why does this thread keep eating posts I have 4 posts now I can't see and my last one is one of them!!!! |
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06/05/2003 11:13:54 AM · #185 |
Originally posted by dgaldeen:
Let's put it inot terms maybe you can understand. You wouldn't put a tee ball team up against a pro major league team and expect a fair game now would you? All we are saying is keep the existing way things work currently but add three classes to it so that there are more even classes. This way the beginners have a chance to grow and learn more before trying to compete with the pros. |
I don't understand US sports metaphors, but that aside, would you put the winners from each challenge up on the front page side by side ? Would you then say that they are equivalently good ? Does that make sense ? Does ribbons for each level make sense ?
To try and use your analogy, would you want to see a local softball team game on ESPN ? |
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06/05/2003 11:14:31 AM · #186 |
If you're scared off by comments, it would seem obvious to me that you wouldn't enter your photos into a challenge. If you're such a beginner that you don't know anything and your poor, fragile ego will shatter to pieces with negative feedback, why would you pick a site where your photo will be stacked up against people who aren't beginners? I think that people have taken the whole "learning" aspect of this site entirely overboard...this isn't kindergarten where you get your hand held and someone rubs you on the back when you fall down. Likewise with your equipment. There is no scissors monitor to make sure that you all have the same pair of scissors...if you don't have what you want, get it and if you can't, no one's problem but your own. And as I've said before, if you only want nice, warm, fuzzy little comments, then get your own website and show your photos to your friends. Honestly.
But back to the original point. I'm personally not all that interested in a site that allows a great deal of editing, for a number of reasons, most of which have already been brought up, but also for one that hasn't. I think that it will cause the overall quality of the challenges to drop. A few people, and most likely the same people who are already scoring at the top, will now have flawless images, but what about everyone else? When I think back on the challenges that have allowed open editing, I think that they've been of much poorer quality than those that don't. People just don't know how to use these programs and while I know it seems like the answer to that is to allow them to use them in order to improve, who wants to wait around through round after round of crappy photos until they do? I'd much rather see a few hot pixels or a jet stream in the sky of a good photo than a good photo that's been ruined by someone who can't edit. Even the border issue has only been minorly successful, in my opinion. If allowing more editing meant fewer people submitted because they saw their photo wasn't up to par, then I may be for it, but I seriously doubt that will be the case. |
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06/05/2003 11:20:05 AM · #187 |
Originally posted by mk:
If you're scared off by comments, it would seem obvious to me that you wouldn't enter your photos into a challenge. If you're such a beginner that you don't know anything and your poor, fragile ego will shatter to pieces with negative feedback, why would you pick a site where your photo will be stacked up against people who aren't beginners? I think that people have taken the whole "learning" aspect of this site entirely overboard...this isn't kindergarten where you get your hand held and someone rubs you on the back when you fall down. Likewise with your equipment. There is no scissors monitor to make sure that you all have the same pair of scissors...if you don't have what you want, get it and if you can't, no one's problem but your own. And as I've said before, if you only want nice, warm, fuzzy little comments, then get your own website and show your photos to your friends. Honestly.
But back to the original point. I'm personally not all that interested in a site that allows a great deal of editing, for a number of reasons, most of which have already been brought up, but also for one that hasn't. I think that it will cause the overall quality of the challenges to drop. A few people, and most likely the same people who are already scoring at the top, will now have flawless images, but what about everyone else? When I think back on the challenges that have allowed open editing, I think that they've been of much poorer quality than those that don't. People just don't know how to use these programs and while I know it seems like the answer to that is to allow them to use them in order to improve, who wants to wait around through round after round of crappy photos until they do? I'd much rather see a few hot pixels or a jet stream in the sky of a good photo than a good photo that's been ruined by someone who can't edit. Even the border issue has only been minorly successful, in my opinion. If allowing more editing meant fewer people submitted because they saw their photo wasn't up to par, then I may be for it, but I seriously doubt that will be the case. |
I for one do not mind negative comments but, what happens is the hot shots won't even take the time to leave a comment they just give you a 2 and move on. I understand that everyone has a life and you can't leave a comment for every photo, that would be insane. But we were all once beginners and somewhere along the line received help somewhere from a book on our own or from a "nice" person whom as you all put it held" or hand. instead of just trying to take out your daily stresses on a new guy with a not so good photo, just give them a tip on what would have made it better. You don't need to write a book, just give them a tip on lighting or how a different angel would have helped. |
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06/05/2003 11:20:06 AM · #188 |
I can not speak for anyone but myself of course, but i would be willing to setup like a yahoo group forum where others could work on edited images. if any one would be intrested in this please let me know, as i do a lot of graphic manipulation.
Ambrose |
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06/05/2003 11:25:01 AM · #189 |
| This thread will be locked in 30 minutes... |
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06/05/2003 11:30:08 AM · #190 |
| What happened to pointing your camera at something and taking a photo, and while doing that having a lot of FUN? is that not ultimately what it is about? |
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06/05/2003 11:33:22 AM · #191 |
Originally posted by n0c0ntr0L:
What happened to pointing your camera at something and taking a photo, and while doing that having a lot of FUN? is that not ultimately what it is about? |
Thats exactly what I thought until I began reading these forums. |
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06/05/2003 11:35:52 AM · #192 |
Originally posted by mk:
If you're scared off by comments, it would seem obvious to me that you wouldn't enter your photos into a challenge. If you're such a beginner that you don't know anything and your poor, fragile ego will shatter to pieces with negative feedback, why would you pick a site where your photo will be stacked up against people who aren't beginners? I think that people have taken the whole "learning" aspect of this site entirely overboard...this isn't kindergarten where you get your hand held and someone rubs you on the back when you fall down. Likewise with your equipment. There is no scissors monitor to make sure that you all have the same pair of scissors...if you don't have what you want, get it and if you can't, no one's problem but your own. And as I've said before, if you only want nice, warm, fuzzy little comments, then get your own website and show your photos to your friends. Honestly.
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Wow - did you just suck that out of my brain? It's just what I was thinking.
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06/05/2003 11:40:21 AM · #193 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
This thread will be locked in 30 minutes... |
Then before that, I'd be interested in knowing what exactly you had envisioned for a post like this...since the way it's going isn't, I guess, what you'd intended. |
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06/05/2003 11:43:36 AM · #194 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
This thread will be locked in 30 minutes... |
Then before that, I'd be interested in knowing what exactly you had envisioned for a post like this...since the way it's going isn't, I guess, what you'd intended. |
The intent was to discuss the merit or objection to the rules suggestion I posted in the first message here. I made a summarization of the objections and posted in another thread. This particular thread is no longer discussing those things, nor is the other thread, and someone even started a third thread on the same topic...
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