Anybody had this feeling? - DPChallenge Forums

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

12/12/2006 11:49:30 AM · #26

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

What do we do now?

Other things that have worked for me, other than chasing after the things I'm afraid of shooting.

Journaling. Write about what you want to shoot. Then write the steps required for you to get there. Then work on step one - and so on.

Just write - write 4 pages a day. Of anything - just what is in your head right then. Get it out.

Once you have an idea about what you want to shoot - share it with someone. Share it with everyone. It is amazing how much you can get back, just by telling people about what you want to do. Every time I do this it stuns me the doors it opens up.

Think about why you shoot. What is it you like about using your camera. What sort of pictures do you like taking. What rules or touchstones/ guidelines do you unconsciously follow? Pick one and break it for a few hours/days/weeks. Shake things up a bit for fun.

Just go out and shoot. Pick a random theme or word from a dictionary. Try to make a picture of it.

Challenge yourself. Create 20 interesting and well considered pictures within 20 feet from your front door.

Find a spot 'somewhere' stand there. Shoot 20 images without moving out of a 2ft by 2ft box at your feet. Use whatever lenses you have.

Go out with just one lens. Shoot everything with that.

Quit DPC. See if you miss it.

Take one compact flash card, with enough space for one photo. Shoot for the entire day. You only get to keep one - delete it as often as you like.

Shoot a series of images, all of them out of focus. Consider the colour and shapes and tones in the images and compose carefully.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 11:51:49.

fotomann_forever

12/12/2006 11:50:50 AM · #27

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

I have shot all there is to shoot within a 20 mile radius of me.

What do we do now?

I seriously doubt you have shot every object, person, texture etc within a 20 mile radius of you. That said, maybe you should delve into areas of photography you haven't tried before or styles you haven't tried.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

12/12/2006 11:57:17 AM · #28

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by ursula:
If I understand it correctly, he argues that competition stiffles creativity, that people who get good at winning competitions often do so at the expense of producing innovative work, and other things.

I am not sure I totally agree, but there is some truth to this. Any sort of group mentality is a damper on individual expression.

I do tend to agree with this. If you want to win, you have to shoot to appeal to what people currently like. Not for what they might like in the future, once they've seen it enough to like it.

So I doubt anything really new or creative ever wins a contest, particularly not one with open judging.

Looking back through art history, almost every new ism was greeted with condemnation and outright abuse. Then over time, maybe it becomes a movement and people start to want to imitate or at least become familiar enough to like the style.

So for challenges, there is a continual pressure to conform (with a very immediate and obvious feedback loop to try to squash anything that doesn't)

It is probably an easier path to go off, do something new, work at it, be creative, explore and create a body of work in a style before you show it to anyone - rather than put out each immature piece for critique and hope to be able to sustain the effort.

Not that you can't do that in a challenge environment with open critique, but it takes maybe a stronger internal vision & drive, than doing it more in private at first.

I have been trying to figure out if it is possible to do both. That is, to work both for exploration and for consumption.

Putting it another way. What bothers me about this line of thinking is that there is a sort of criticism of people who might simply continue doing what they're good at and feel happy doing so. Someone here at DPC told me (not so long ago), "Why fight it, play to your strengths." In other words, make images that you know how to make, and that you know will sell. There is something to this, it actually works. And it's not a bad way to go.

But, what I'm finding is that for me, it doesn't offer satisfaction. It's like something is missing.

The big worry to me is, "What if I continue to explore all the rest of my life and NEVER, NEVER come to any sort of work that isn't just eye candy?" That's scary. But fun. Maybe.

Wildcard

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron AF 55-200mm F4-5.6 LD Di-II for Canon

12/12/2006 12:00:24 PM · #29

Beg, borrow or steal if you need to a copy of The Artists Way

...or you could just buy a copy

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 12:07:20.

CalliopeKel

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

12/12/2006 12:18:00 PM · #30

Good advice here. Will see what I can conjure up tomorrow. Will post my findings.

Thanks Peeps.

12/12/2006 12:18:32 PM · #31

Originally posted by Wildcard:

Beg, borrow or steal if you need to a copy of The Artists Way

...or you could just buy a copy

or go to your local library.

Or download the useful bits

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/12/2006 12:22:57 PM · #32

Originally posted by ursula:

If some are good at it and happy with it, there is nothing at all wrong with that. Certainly no criticism in this for that approach. But this thread seems to be about not being happy with that - what to do then ?

What a lot of pros photographers (who essentially 'have' to do the 'challenges' in front of them, to get paid) seem to do is exactly what you describe - work for consumption, personal work for exploration (and growth)

There's nothing wrong with a picture that says 'oh, pretty' and not much else. Unless you aren't satisfied with that, then you need to find what does satisfy and what fills in that missing bit.

However, I think if you do want to do this, it has to be somewhat conscious. You need to wear two hats and know when you've switched them, at least at first. Sure, there will be some cross over of ideas, but you need to think - okay, I'm going out to play & explore, or okay, I'm going to shoot something in a very specific acceptable style.

Otherwise I think both branches get lost in a mis-mash of ideas. You don't have to be a style of photographer and nothing else. I also don't think you can do anything particularly new, exciting or ground breaking if you only ever focus on one style for a week at a time - it takes some persistence and repetition, to develop an idea and flesh it out.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 12:26:25.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

12/12/2006 12:27:40 PM · #33

Expecting Tsunamies
On Depression and Art

There are, I propose, three modes of living: the active life, the contemplative life and the creative life. We know much about the active life. With sufficient interest we can learn about the contemplative life. The creative life, however, is a mystery even to those who are in the midst of it. When it is not a thorn in his eye, It often goes beyond the scope of what a thinker would consider as part of a reasonable reality.

Within the active life, it is probably best to seek help, if you are suffering from clinical depression. When there is little faith in the effectiveness of professional help, the very act of reaching out and the experience of doing something to improve your quality of life and the prospect for one may do some good.

Within the contemplative life, well, you have Boethius, god and the deductive effect of noting the very real screams of those who lead the active life.

Within the creative life, you can have all this at any time of the day and night, but you cannot reason it away without a strong involvement, you cannot reach out to those who may well represent the very cause of the state you're in and you cannot simply resign, unless, of course, you are considering suicide. You could consider murder or becoming a terrorist, an unlikely choice for a creatively inclined personality.

Being who you are, the only thing you can effectively do is to try to make others feel the way you do. You can show them what you see. You can make them hear something they have never heard before. You can try to make them touch the sky and dance to the rhythm of the wind. You can incite a riot within the heart, you can teach without lecturing, you can preach dissociation without preaching, you can kindle resentment towards evil.

If you have ever done something like this, you will realize that your particular action, your art is born from the very adversities you're trying so desperately to overcome. You realize suffering as a premise for joy. You also realize (I hope) an intensity of living for yourself which is neither conceivable nor acceptable to participants in any other mode of life. First-hand exposure to the creative life brings with it such extremes of experience that would inspire nothing but fear and loathing in those not prepared for it. I believe, this is the primary reason also for the formidable and often unreasonable opposition to art and artists.

While participants in all other modes of life are likely to receive an education (no matter if it is a formal or auto-didactively achieved one) based on the development of positive capabilities, an artist would benefit much from being trained in negative capability. This is particularly true for poets, who have no true identity, since their very occupation requires that they embody everything, including the sun and moon. Neither are there or have there ever been any schools for poetry. A good poet, instead, is self-taught. He is, in more sense than one, on his own.

Some of you may consider this a somewhat bleak view of the creative life. Yet, the benefits are significant: beyond catharsis and therapy, the healing aspect of acting out one's idiosyncrasies, an artist can transcend the plethora of negative emotions. He observes how dignity springs from humiliation, how anger and rage convert to love and care. He, of all people, if he chooses to remain committed to his craft as much as to his humanity (and if he manages to ride out this delicate poise without falling off) has the key to unlock human potential. What he does with this key, perversely, does not depend on him as it does depend on the social response he harvests.

If no chords are struck or if he is out of tune, he is delivered. If he has negative capability, he will rebuild. If his outrage, his anger is deep enough, he will rise beyond it. If his truth is appeased or corrupted by society, he is, for all intend and purposes, dead.

A good artist, to me, is a committed artist. His edge is directed at us, at society and at himself as a social participant. Society, customarily, will do everything to blunt that edge. He should, therefore, come prepared, expecting tsunamies - and the chaotic calm that follows them.

[Zeus Zen]

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 12:28:05.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

12/12/2006 12:38:28 PM · #34

I posted this topic/link a while back and was met by the usual blank stares my posts normally recieve but I'll raise it up the flagpole once more to see if anyone salutes it, this time around....LOL

I've been looking towards musical themes (instrumental)to shoot around for inspiration. I've had a good deal of fun assembling Photo Montages that fit certain themes that match my style or now I'm in the process of doing something harder which is choosing the music first and shooting towards that.

More on topic, I found shooting towards Challenges started making me worse as a photographer, artistically speaking. I was distgustingly fixed on the technicals and since I don't shoot commercially I found it bit constrictive and often blinding, especially given the subject matter I like to shoot doesn't cry for that kind of detail. So I quit entering Challenges to reassess where I needed or wanted to be. I also realized that shooting towards the general tastes of the DPC family wasn't much that I was interested in. Once I learned that I had the ability to meet the DPC criteria...not by winning Ribbons so much but by placing well steadily, that was enough for me.

Keeping things in perspective made it all good and now I can relax and have some fun.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 12:52:20.

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

12/12/2006 12:44:52 PM · #35

I think a good place to start working through 'boredom' is to work outside the 'system'.

This type of post (from the original poster in this thread) has come up here many times before. One question I am always afraid to ask is:

What do you do with your camera besides DPChallenge stuff?

I don't like to ask that question because some find it offensive for some reason. If DPChallenge is the primary reason you make photos, you might want to explore other personal goals in photography. Making photos that appeal to the masses here is difficult. The quality of the photos you make during that process may be good, bad, or ugly, but it won't replace the personal satisfaction of building a body of work for yourself that has personal meaning to you.

Find something you enjoy photographing and work it over time. Build a collection of images related to something you enjoy. This is where I find the most pleasure in owning my camera gear. I have two large and ongoing collections of photos dealing with things that are important to me, and I'm hoping to start a third, and possibly a fourth, series of photos on different themes in the next few weeks. This is where I find happiness in what I'm doing. These photos don't require critique or acceptance because I am happy with them. They also don't appeal to a large group of people, yet I can't stop myself from doing them. I would RATHER shoot photos to be parts of these unknown and uninteresting collections than spend time trying to validate my existence as a photographer in the public forums.

Don't let online photography competitions and forums be the bane of your existence as a photographer :) Let your personal satisfaction with your own choice of subjects guide your endeavors.

CalliopeKel

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

12/12/2006 12:54:04 PM · #36

My goals are more making other people happy with my photography. I mean, if all I did was satisfy myself, that would henge toward the vain self absorbed existence I find so distasteful in the first place. I want someone to want something I have captured. Wether or not I get paid is secondary to having a unique work of art (portrait)that is timeless and priceless to the individual. I want to leave some sort of legacy behind to individuals, where that photo is treasured for generations to come. A photo that makes someone reflect, smile or get goosebumps. I can only think of a few photos that have stirred that sort of emotion in me. And I am clueless about the photographer who took the picture, but the picture changed my life nonetheless. I just want to be an instrument in this way. To someone. Have I acheived this? You tell me?

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 12:56:39.

12/12/2006 12:57:25 PM · #37

Originally posted by CalliopeKel:

Wow. That's quite a burden to put on yourself. I have a hard enough time being creative if I worry about the end result being any good, never mind worrying about it changing someone's life and being a historic artifact.

If that's what you've been aiming for and feel so burnt out about, maybe you could try shooting to satisfy just yourself, even for a couple of days. My own view is that the outstanding images and pictures that touch others only come about as a side effect of a personal, selfish approach to creativity. You can't make it for someone else, you need to make it for yourself, for it to have any real emotional connection to you. Then all you can hope is someone else likes it. Otherwise, if everything is focused outward, it becomes a reflection of what you think other people want to see, rather than about what you see.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 12:59:30.

12/12/2006 01:02:52 PM · #38

It also sounds - at least I'm reading between the lines a bit - that you find you are carrying too much gear (big lens, heavy camera bag). If so - simplify. Simplify some more. Work with one small, light lens. Don't take a bag at all.

If it is a burden, lay it down.

Also you seem to be saying you want to shoot portraits of people ? Is that right ? If so, are you doing that as much as you want to ? If not, why not ?

I've been working on shooting more people all year, this year. My blog has quite a few posts about the stresses and strains of getting over my barriers to working with people. Still very much a work in progress though.

Message edited by author 2006-12-12 13:03:16.

Sykes

12/12/2006 01:24:08 PM · #39

This is all quite interesting.

The internet has made this pursuit (of photography) and I'm sure other disiplines as well, a rather solitary endeavour. That one on one, face to face connection is not there. I might suggest that if you have "hit that wall" , you should look at taking classes in photography. Not the stuff you find here on the web, but at a community college or some other school. I know here where I live there are tons of courses you can take in the evenings and on weekends. There are weekend workshops and field trips with a pro. Being taught by a real flesh and blood person infront of you is such a different dynamic than what your going to get off the web or from a book. This is real "hands on" learning. I can't count the number of seminars that I have gone to, over the years and came away with renewed enthusiasm and some neat little tricks to further my cause. It's definitely something to look into.

Cheers
Don

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

12/12/2006 03:48:36 PM · #40

Originally posted by Sykes:

This is all quite interesting.

The internet has made this pursuit (of photography) and I'm sure other disciplines as well, a rather solitary endeavour.

It's odd that I feel almost exactly the opposite. I've been exposed to much wider and more diverse views on photography than I've been able to find in a couple of local groups.

I have made some great friendships and learned a lot from those local interactions too, but having access to a much bigger pond and instant communication has opened up the world for me, rather than making things feel more solitary.

Not that either view is more right than the other, I just find it interesting that you view it that way.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

12/12/2006 04:21:08 PM · #41

Originally posted by silverfoxx:

...or you can do like I always do: have brain storming with yourself.

I'm pretty sure that violates the terms of use. ;-)

Very interesting thread - as mentioned, they come up all the time. Lots of great advice and suggestions. I'm on the wall with some of you as well. Though I've never really taken the challenges seriously (look at the majority of my entries), I have learned a whole bunch (and $pent a whole bunch) and have also become extremely picky about my photos and don't enter challenges much any more. I also don't get out of the office much, let alone out of the neighborhood or even the local area.

I like John Setzler's suggestion about finding a theme or themes and creating a body of work around it. The 30 Day forum challenges inspired me more than any of the normal challenges. In fact, the forum threads in general inspire me more than anything else here.

Let's see, do I have anything of value to contribute to this thread... Hmmm, nope. k, I'll stop here. I'm just very surprised I haven't seen a TV ad for a pill for this syndrome. :/

silverfoxx

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

12/12/2006 04:27:44 PM · #42

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by silverfoxx:
...or you can do like I always do: have brain storming with yourself.

I'm pretty sure that violates the terms of use. ;-)

:) this is a great time to say how much I enjoy your comments and posts! ;)

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I like John Setzler's suggestion about finding a theme or themes and creating a body of work around it.

strange, I don't really find this very inspiring. maybe it's because there are so many fantastic things Is till haven't tried and to get stuck on only one theme or style...it's like a nightmare for me. maybe things will change after a while when I've tried a lot.

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

I'm just very surprised I haven't seen a TV ad for a pill for this syndrome. :/

aren't those books which claim they can learn you to see creatively those pills? to think creatively means to see differently - how can thousands of readers who have read the same book with the same techniques think *differently*? maybe I am wrong and it's because I've never seen any use in those books for me. I'm sorry for this critics if they do help someone!:)

Sykes

12/12/2006 04:53:23 PM · #43

Hi Gordon;

What I am saying, is that everybody goes to the web to answer their questions. You may get answers, but how correct are those answers? There is a lot of misinformation out there. You also don't know the qualifications of the people giving you the answers.

Something like photograhy is really "hands on". Nothing I have seen (except for tidbits of information here and there) can replace a real live teacher with real experience. You cannot live with internet alone.

You can't beat the experince of having a live instructor giving you a demostration of portrait lighting and posing with a live model and real lights right infront of you, and you can ask questions and participate.

You say it has opened up a whole expanded world for you. It has for me as well, but not at the expense of real face to face interaction with others in the industry. To this end, I feel that many people limit their interactions mostly to these on line forums and groups.

Self experimenting is great, but will get you only so far. Imagine having an experinced pro show you how to use light, how to design your shots, how to come up with really creative concepts and compositions. Once you possess the proper tools (not just cameras) then you will be amazed at what you can do (with a lot of practise) and be amazed how you SEE things as you progress.

Cheers
Don