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12/08/2006 01:18:59 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I would bet a nickel the the differnce in the percived qualities of this shot has more to do with how much the voters have studied (or lived through) the histoty of photography. Sandy made clear in her title and comments that the shot was ment to convey associations with the past. It reminds me of Lange's work. If you have no knowledge of, or interest in the past, then the connections this image makes for some, are not there. If you judge the image from the gut, then it is a picture of a not very attractive woman with her shirt on. |
That "gut" you speak of has been shaped by Fashion magazines and beer advertisements. The "gut" reaction is always shaped by one's culture. And the more culture the better, as far as I'm concerned. In fact, the more you learn about different possibilities, the more choice you have in actually shaping your "gut" reaction into something truly individual and integral to you.
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12/08/2006 01:19:08 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
BradP hit the nail on the head with his Life Magazine and Vogue covers comment; this has that sort of a look. She maybe looks like what "Miranda Priestly" in "The Devil Wears Prada" ought to look like :-)
R. |
I get more of an Eva Peron feel from it really. Or Marlene Dietrich
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12/08/2006 01:23:06 PM · #78 |
Since we have all studied this photo more than we probably would have...I have found i like the hair texture and highlighting the best.
And I began to wonder about her age...Any guesses? I mean she could be 28 or 55...Its so hard to tell. I am gonna say 41. What do you think?
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12/08/2006 01:27:12 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
Since we have all studied this photo more than we probably would have...I have found i like the hair texture and highlighting the best.
And I began to wonder about her age...Any guesses? I mean she could be 28 or 55...Its so hard to tell. I am gonna say 41. What do you think? |
I bet she is 25. If she's a regular smoker and 41 she's gonna have some wrinkles on her face. Looking for laugh lines or crow's feet around her eyes, I see none. She's young.
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12/08/2006 01:39:45 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
That "gut" you speak of has been shaped by Fashion magazines and beer advertisements. The "gut" reaction is always shaped by one's culture. And the more culture the better, as far as I'm concerned. In fact, the more you learn about different possibilities, the more choice you have in actually shaping your "gut" reaction into something truly individual and integral to you. |
Concur. I belive that "going with the gut reaction" is a cheap excuse for lazy people. The unexamined life is not worth living and all that. On the other hand there are great artists (Andy Goldsworthy for one) who work under the flag of "Intuitive artists" so perhaps there is a creative power in the unconcious that I'm just not tapped into. Of course the problem with looking at all the angles is that it is harder to come to any conclusion, so when I have to vote on over 500 images I can see why people go with Focus/Brighness of color/Hotness of model/ scoring method, it is so much easier. |
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12/08/2006 01:43:23 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Of course the problem with looking at all the angles is that it is harder to come to any conclusion, so when I have to vote on over 500 images I can see why people go with Focus/Brighness of color/Hotness of model/ scoring method, it is so much easier. |
Agreed. The sheer number of images forces you to make shortcuts. I freely admit that I have missed or underscored gems because I didn't take the time to appreciate them. At the same time, there's a certain thrill to trying to shape one's immediate reaction to catch as much of the good stuff as possible.
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12/08/2006 01:47:13 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by Cutter:
Since we have all studied this photo more than we probably would have...I have found i like the hair texture and highlighting the best.
And I began to wonder about her age...Any guesses? I mean she could be 28 or 55...Its so hard to tell. I am gonna say 41. What do you think? |
Mid to late twenties. Age is most revealed by the condition of the skin at the outside corners of the eyes. |
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12/08/2006 01:55:07 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Agreed. The sheer number of images forces you to make shortcuts. I freely admit that I have missed or underscored gems because I didn't take the time to appreciate them. At the same time, there's a certain thrill to trying to shape one's immediate reaction to catch as much of the good stuff as possible. |
That's another aspect to consider in what makes a good DPC image vs what makes a satisfying long term image. I like photos that I can enjoy, savor, spend some time exploring, find new things in, enjoy. I also like photos that make me think 'wow' as soon as I see them.
It is really rare to find both those qualities in the same image.
Novels vs jokes
music that stands the test of time vs forgettable, foot tapping pop
A good meal vs Wendy's
Something that grows long term vs a quick impact
Neither one is better or worse, but they fulfill different needs. One is going to fare better here than the other though, with 5 seconds or less to get a response and a vote.
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12/08/2006 02:07:36 PM · #84 |
Lotta great thoughts here. It's amazing how infrequently this depth of discussion is reached on these boards. Look back through this thread, there are some really spot-on observations on the photo, photography in general, and our community. Great discussion. Well, except for the "hee hee she's got a big nose" type remarks.
Message edited by author 2006-12-08 14:08:04. |
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12/08/2006 02:25:12 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by marksimms:
...Sorry mate, the minute I saw her two words sprang to mind. ... |
First thing that came to mind for me was Greek Statue. Could be Roman I guess...
Yes, this has been an interesting (and refreshing) read. |
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12/08/2006 02:27:35 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well, "travesty" or no (and I admit that's a hyperbolic word I deliberately used) it worked, didn't it? I like to think the topic title has contributed to this lively and very revealing thread :-) |
editted
Message edited by author 2006-12-08 14:28:07. |
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12/08/2006 02:29:19 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Cutter:
Since we have all studied this photo more than we probably would have...I have found i like the hair texture and highlighting the best.
And I began to wonder about her age...Any guesses? I mean she could be 28 or 55...Its so hard to tell. I am gonna say 41. What do you think? |
I bet she is 25. If she's a regular smoker and 41 she's gonna have some wrinkles on her face. Looking for laugh lines or crow's feet around her eyes, I see none. She's young. |
I think she's about 40. (Speaking from experience in both age and smoking).
dahkota, still fairly unwrinkled due to sunglasses and sunscreen. |
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12/08/2006 02:31:51 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
I think she's about 40. (Speaking from experience in both age and smoking).
dahkota, still fairly unwrinkled due to sunglasses and sunscreen. |
heh, sista, take a close look in the mirror and tell me if you are as wrinkle free around your eyes. I mean, she's got none! ;)
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12/08/2006 02:33:23 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Lotta great thoughts here. It's amazing how infrequently this depth of discussion is reached on these boards. Look back through this thread, there are some really spot-on observations on the photo, photography in general, and our community. Great discussion. Well, except for the "hee hee she's got a big nose" type remarks. |
I agree. For some reason, the general sentiment here has been that any discussion of the higher placing images that isn't total drooling admiration is only the result of sour grapes and pretty much any sort of valuable discussion about them is immediately quashed. I don't even think the initial big nose comments were entirely uncalled for. It's obviously something that affected the way a lot of people viewed and felt about the image and as such, deserves a place in the overall discussion.
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12/08/2006 02:38:09 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by mk:
I agree. For some reason, the general sentiment here has been that any discussion of the higher placing images that isn't total drooling admiration is only the result of sour grapes and pretty much any sort of valuable discussion about them is immediately quashed. I don't even think the initial big nose comments were entirely uncalled for. It's obviously something that affected the way a lot of people viewed and felt about the image and as such, deserves a place in the overall discussion. |
totally agree. Our cultural norms of beauty are so narrowly defined that this picture would clearly fail in that regard. Beauty is only skin deep, of course, but with the DPC voter only giving a shot 3-5 seconds, it's as far as most people get.
Not mentioned as much, but potentially just as stigmatising is the cigarette. In this day and age, a cigarette is likely as unappealing, if not much more so, as compared to a big nose. It's certainly the key piece that makes the shot seem from another age. In the 50s the cigarette would have appeared chic, now it just appears lame.
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12/08/2006 02:42:42 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's certainly the key piece that makes the shot seem from another age. In the 50s the cigarette would have appeared chic, now it just appears lame. |
That's mainly an American cultural stigma though.
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12/08/2006 02:44:57 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's certainly the key piece that makes the shot seem from another age. In the 50s the cigarette would have appeared chic, now it just appears lame. |
That's mainly an American cultural stigma though. |
Well, the rest of the world will catch on or die trying...
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12/08/2006 02:48:56 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, the rest of the world will catch on or die trying... |
Sometime around when they stop killing themselves with alcohol too.
Neither of which seem to kill many people before they get a chance to reproduce, so no downward pressure on continuing to do them from a larger population standpoint.
Smoking is on the rise in some cultures, particularly amongst pregnant women as a way to have a quicker, less painful pregnancy. Smaller birth weight of the baby and all that.
Message edited by author 2006-12-08 14:50:57.
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12/08/2006 02:55:18 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
That's mainly an American cultural stigma though. |
Not entirely.
For me, I don't enjoy photos in which cigarettes play a prominent role. Doubtless it's one of those polarising things that appeals to some. |
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12/08/2006 02:58:28 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Smoking is on the rise in some cultures, particularly amongst pregnant women as a way to have a quicker, less painful pregnancy. Smaller birth weight of the baby and all that. |
Not to continue hijacking this thread, but speaking as someone who spent 3 weeks this summer in in a NICU (neonatal intensive care unit), I doubt this is something that someone would do twice (at least not intentionally). Perhaps that's just wishful thinking though. |
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12/08/2006 03:00:27 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
Not to continue hijacking this thread, but speaking as someone who spent 3 weeks this summer in in a NICU (neonatal intensive care unit), I doubt this is something that someone would do twice (at least not intentionally). Perhaps that's just wishful thinking though. |
I never said it was a good idea.
But anyway. Back to the original pretend travesty in the thread and enough of this actual one.
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12/08/2006 03:10:01 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by eqsite:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Smoking is on the rise in some cultures, particularly amongst pregnant women as a way to have a quicker, less painful pregnancy. Smaller birth weight of the baby and all that. |
Not to continue hijacking this thread, but speaking as someone who spent 3 weeks this summer in in a NICU (neonatal intensive care unit), I doubt this is something that someone would do twice (at least not intentionally). Perhaps that's just wishful thinking though. |
Does this mean we have a new(ish) daddy in our midst? Or was you working there? Congrats if its the former! Hope everything is OK now.. |
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12/08/2006 03:21:11 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by marksimms:
Does this mean we have a new(ish) daddy in our midst? Or was you working there? Congrats if its the former! Hope everything is OK now.. |
Again, many apologies for continuing to be off-topic, but I didn't want to leave your question hanging. Yes, I'm a new dad (thanks for asking). Mom and daughter are doing well, and the visit to the NICU had nothing to do with smoking, I am pleased to report.
To make ammends for being off-topic, I will say that while I did not vote on this challenge (too many time constraints being a new dad and all :D), I'm not sure I would have gotten this photo. I think that, like many in the normally silent DPC masses, I simply lack the sophistication to understand the subtlety that makes other, more experienced photographers see something special here.
I don't say this in any sarcastic way, but just trying to be truly honest. I would very much like to be able to appreciate what others are seeing here, and I will try to go through the already posted comments to see if it will sink in.
I would love to understand portraiture, but it is really not something I've spent time pursuing, and I expect that is true of many of those who may have voted this lower than some might have thought fair. |
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12/08/2006 03:23:31 PM · #99 |
Wow! What a great discussion!
Question for those who find images of big-nosed, cigarette-holding, middle-aged women "unappealing"....why does a work of art need to be appealing to be good-emotive-interesting-well done...etc.? Are not negative emotions equally valid? |
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12/08/2006 03:30:36 PM · #100 |
Didn't find it appealing or unappealing. The image offers nothing visually that I can't see a hundred times a day - a woman having a cigarette. The processing is nice. I like black and whites.
Beyond that, anyone whose heart fluttered at the site of an image with a big nose having a smoke needs to look at their own psychological makeup for the cause. Certainly it's not rational to expect such a mundane subject to stir a strong emotional response in many people. The picture scored well. It was hardly underrated. |
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