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05/22/2003 11:43:48 PM · #1 |
Last week I picked up a copy of Picture at the local book store and found a clipping in it about Juliana Beasley which leaves me asking what would you do to make it to the top in the world of photography? Would you accept paying jobs photographing porn just to make it to the top? Would you fetish model or do porn? Would you strip for the money you needed for equipment? Would you basically sale yourself for your dreams? Just how far are you willing to go to make your dreams come true.
I actually say I don't care what Juliana did to make her way, she did it and she is there, I wish I had the guts she had to do what she did to make her way.
For those of you who don't know who Juliana Beasley is you can check out her book "Lapdancer" but I do warn you be prepared for a hard look at the life of a dancer...wow does she have guts to do what she did.
//www.lapdancerthebook.com/lapdancer-fs2.html
//www.powerhousebooks.com/inprint/inprintlist.html#lapdancer
Now seriously just how far would you go to make your way in the world of photography? |
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05/23/2003 12:15:24 AM · #2 |
Seriously? Not an inch.
What we do aspires to art, not personal ambition. The ego, IMO, often gets in the way of accomplishment, at least in a single sense.
When a 'great' photo, painting, poem or a piece of music becomes popular it is endangered.
The world of photography, is NOT out there. It is, I believe, in us, if then we have the sense for that which we love and the integrity to guard against exploitaition and other sorts of mortmain.
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05/23/2003 02:05:19 AM · #3 |
I guess it depends on how we value ourselves and our dreams. Some people may value their loved ones as their top most important things, and thus any dreams that will benefit their loved ones will be considered and done, be it even death or the sacrifice of his/her own life.
The same will apply to someone who value their ownself over their family(loved ones). This person may sacrifice his loved ones for his personal dream, be it success in business or stardom. |
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05/23/2003 06:22:05 AM · #4 |
It is a very large assumption to accept your proposition that Juliana Beasley has made it to the top of the world of photography.
That issue aside, we all make decisions and these decisions are based upon our own set of ethics, morals, and standards. To some, she will have violated a code and gone way beyond the values of good judgment to achieve her current level of accomplishment.
To others, it will be no big deal and she is simply another person aggressively struggling with life. She is plainly doing whatever it takes to move towards her aspirations.
You will find that every person, whether they be a photographer, community leader, business executive, judge, minister, parent, or what have you, has made compromises - lots and lots of compromises. People made decisions and then must accepted the outcomes. Often, these outcomes would not have been their first choice when defining a perfect lifestyle. Why? It is because life is not perfect and it demands that we all pursue our goals along a continuous and highly dynamic path. A path that is composed of compromises. Some meet these challenges and win. Many do not.
Juliana Beasley made her choices and she made it all work (presumably) for her and her life. So, how far any of us goes can be vastly different than how far the next person will go. As a result, it may be a considerable challenge to compare your individual values with those of the next person. What do you think?
Message edited by author 2003-05-23 09:13:56.
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05/23/2003 07:35:51 AM · #5 |
people "sell" themselves all the time. when you go to work for an employer every day, you are "selling" yourself.
our society places different levels of stigma on different kinds of selling. giving 60 hours a week of time of your life that you will never ever get back to a bank is OK - not called "selling yourself".
but giving 16 hours a week, if it involves taking off clothes, or sex, in some way, is considered "selling yourself"... this just reflects our culture's priorities, where sexual elements are more stigmatized than non-sexual.
but i submit that anyone who works for anyone else, is, in some way, selling themselves. and that it's quite arbitrary that one form of selling is "worse" than any other.
just some morning philosophy ... :) ... Thanks for the interesting topic.
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05/23/2003 08:33:22 AM · #6 |
hmmm... interesting concept...
I guess it all depends on what you want to do with yourself... I don't particularly care what avenues people choose to realize their goals. There are always good choices and bad choices. When 'moral' choices come into play, everyone will have to decide what is acceptable and what isn't.
"Selling yourself out", to me, is just hogwash. We all do what has to be done to get where we want to go. As long as a person is happy with their own choices, why should it matter to anyone else?
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05/23/2003 11:50:00 AM · #7 |
Her concept and ideas make me feel like I haven't done so badly in my choices but also make me wonder if I would have been a little more of a free spirit would I be further ahead today?
I probably would be...if I wouldn't have hit that road block about 6 months ago that destroyed all I was working on for the past year...now here I am rebuilding cause I had a case of guilt over what I was doing. |
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05/23/2003 12:08:19 PM · #8 |
It sounds similar to method acting or some styles of journalism.
If you don't really get involved in your subject, you'll never take good pictures of it - be it stripping, flowers, pets, abstracts etc. You have to be really immersed or care about what you are shooting to do interesting work I think.
Back to the 'I have a passion for _________ and want to take pictures that show __________' |
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05/23/2003 12:34:41 PM · #9 |
I agree with some of the comments that "selling out" isn't something anyone can clearly define. I was going to say that as long as you don't hurt anyone, you're making good choices. However, after thinking about it I could think of many situations where someone might get hurt even through the best of intentions were involved for all parties.
I guess as long as you can look yourself in the eye each day, and never stop believing in yourself, what you do to achieve your goals is a moot point.
For me, performing a job that may be immoral for some people is fine, as long as you yourself don't morally object to it. As soon as you let other peopleĆ¢s judgment decide who you are and what you are worth as a person, then that to me is the "selling out" point.
Doubt is one thing, we all question our value at one point or another, but losing your respect and faith in yourself is another.
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05/23/2003 12:53:55 PM · #10 |
Would I "sellout" for fame and fortune? Depends how you look at it. You could contend we sellout week to week by taking part in the challenges. What is the top anyway? Working for Hef? That'd be a good job!
I'm not looking to make it to the top. But if I were, I'd be putting my name out and my photographs everywhere to gain a little recognition. Maybe even develop a real identifiable style. If people could tell it was me without seeing a credit, then I think I'll have made it.
As things are now, I just want people to see my stuff. I'm still into the "art" part of it where I just want to share it. If someone printed out a bunch of my stuff for free, I'd stand on the streetcorner and give it away without thinking twice about it. I'll show anyone who will look. I think I'm improving, and the affirmation of that is a real conifidence builder at this stage of my "career" in photography. If I can make money at it, great. If not, well I'm getting my money's worth out of enjoying the hobby and sharing it with my family and friends.
Bob |
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05/23/2003 02:50:37 PM · #11 |
IMO picture's of nude people will always get high rating's, no matter of the quality, composition, etc. I feel rarely anyone really looks at the over-all technical aspects of the photo but just look at the fact someone stood nude and showed it all. I for one think it is much more rewarding and difficult to get up in the early morning and hike for miles to find that one sunset, wildlife, inter-action of real life on the streets, rather than setting up a photo shoot and or inclosed room with people acting out.
I for one will stick to my kind of photography, what I enjoy and hope I make it because I'm good at it, not what some people might find as intertainment only.
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05/23/2003 03:47:32 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by draney4:
IMO picture's of nude people will always get high rating's, no matter of the quality, composition, etc. I feel rarely anyone really looks at the over-all technical aspects of the photo but just look at the fact someone stood nude and showed it all. I for one think it is much more rewarding and difficult to get up in the early morning and hike for miles to find that one sunset, wildlife, inter-action of real life on the streets, rather than setting up a photo shoot and or inclosed room with people acting out.
I for one will stick to my kind of photography, what I enjoy and hope I make it because I'm good at it, not what some people might find as intertainment only. |
You need to read what is written in the links. These photos were not set up they were an 8 year effort on Juliana Beasley's effort. She worked as a lapdancer and photographed her experiences and those around her. She didn't set any of the photos up she worked much harder than anyone going out and catching the sunrise or sunset of one day.
Her photos are real life, a life that not many people who live it would want to show off but she took the redlight district so to speak and made it something beautiful by capturing it in its true life.
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05/23/2003 04:54:50 PM · #13 |
| Then what are you asking? Would I strip to get a better camera? Maybe I missed your point here, and I'm sorry if I did, would I sell myself short to get recognized as a good photographer to post picture's of my life, if this is what I did, no! I felt you wanted feed back on what other people would do, and thats how I answered it. |
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05/23/2003 05:40:46 PM · #14 |
| I was just pointing out you needed to read the entire article before making the assumption the photos were set up or studio, they weren't they were real life and taken while it was happening nothing was staged. She spent 8 years on this project and didn't so anything set up. |
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05/23/2003 06:45:06 PM · #15 |
I think she spent 8 years stripping in order to get money. The fact that she took pictures on the way through this time of her life is great for her, isnce she now has material to publish. I don't really think you could call it a project(?). IMHO
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05/23/2003 06:57:45 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
I think she spent 8 years stripping in order to get money. The fact that she took pictures on the way through this time of her life is great for her, isnce she now has material to publish. I don't really think you could call it a project(?). IMHO |
Actually I have read a huge article on the whole thing you are right in some ways. In the beginning she started stripping to be able to finance her photography and help her career along but as she got involved with the other dancers lives she developed the project after the first year and it was actually a 7 year project and then it took her an additional 2 years to put it all together and get published. |
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05/23/2003 07:34:38 PM · #17 |
It's a good thing to have the wisdom to recognize an opportunity to advance in the direction you desire. For me, I'd have to carefully examine all the ramifications of my next move. Over the years I've determined what my moral and ethical values are. I've learned a lot about myself and the far-reaching effects of each decision. I will not break my moral or ethical standards to attain recognition or riches. Knowing I can look myself in the eye and not be ashamed, and that I will never neglect the welfare of my family, is so much more important to me.
Sooooooo How far would I go? I'd take risks but not compromise my values.
Interesting subject!
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05/23/2003 07:46:16 PM · #18 |
i used to ask people i knew hypothetically what the least amount of money they would eat a bowl of poo for.
it was amazing the variation in responses. a rare few said no never not for any amount of money. another rare person pronounced themselves willing to do it for $5000 cash right in the hand.
most of the people set an amount that was probably higher than their true cost. after all, if someone opens a suitcase on a table in front of you, with oh let's say $50,000 "just" to eat a bowl of poo - disgusting, but over in a moment, wouldn't it be tempting ...? well, let's just leave the question hanging there .. ;)
moral of the story: all shortcuts have some kind of price/cost . . . (i was gonna say 'there is no such thing as a free lunch' but that seemed like a bad idea after the above..........)
Message edited by author 2003-05-23 20:24:25.
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05/23/2003 09:40:41 PM · #19 |
| I personally would stand on my head to win first place just once on dpchallenge. |
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05/23/2003 10:13:21 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Actually I have read a huge article on the whole thing you are right in some ways. In the beginning she started stripping to be able to finance her photography and help her career along but as she got involved with the other dancers lives she developed the project after the first year and it was actually a 7 year project and then it took her an additional 2 years to put it all together and get published. |
It was still money. If after a year or two, she had all the friends in the business, why did she continue to do it? She knew what it was about and the other things that go with that life choice, and still had all the connections.
I know a few women who are and were "dancers" (I still call them strippers, cuz I don't like political correctness), and they always say, that it is hard to get out of, because the money is so good and it is "fairly" easy cash.
"I want money. That's what I want"
I am not trying to argue here, just I think she is saying she did it for "her art," to justify it to herself and everyone else. when it was actually the money.
tracy
tracy
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