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05/16/2003 10:35:45 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by gpflman:
For now, I am content to be a student and to try to learn from others who are definitely better at this than I am |
Matt I would suggest posting your images on other sites to get feedback and learn. Sorry to say that with as many entries and now the "Judge by the numbers" system that is being talked about here, comments and critiques will not be coming. A generic *5* (average image, not to grabbing, composition could be better, blah, blah, blah) from someone means nothing to your image. Is about as helpful a learning tool as a sledghammer in a glass blowing shop. It tells you the image is OK but not how to make it better.
I learned photography from a bunch of sites on the internet, a lot of reading, a lot of looking over someones shoulder and a lot of doing. This place use to be a pretty good tool for those learning but it really isn't any more. It is just a contest now. There are just too many people entering... JMO
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05/16/2003 10:48:41 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
Originally posted by gpflman:
For now, I am content to be a student and to try to learn from others who are definitely better at this than I am |
Matt I would suggest posting your images on other sites to get feedback and learn. Sorry to say that with as many entries and now the "Judge by the numbers" system that is being talked about here, comments and critiques will not be coming. A generic *5* (average image, not to grabbing, composition could be better, blah, blah, blah) from someone means nothing to your image. Is about as helpful a learning tool as a sledghammer in a glass blowing shop. It tells you the image is OK but not how to make it better.
I learned photography from a bunch of sites on the internet, a lot of reading, a lot of looking over someones shoulder and a lot of doing. This place use to be a pretty good tool for those learning but it really isn't any more. It is just a contest now. There are just too many people entering... JMO |
Can you read or do you just choose to ignore what you read?
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05/16/2003 10:55:20 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
Matt I would suggest posting your images on other sites to get feedback and learn. Sorry to say that with as many entries and now the "Judge by the numbers" system that is being talked about here, comments and critiques will not be coming. A generic *5* (average image, not to grabbing, composition could be better, blah, blah, blah) from someone means nothing to your image. Is about as helpful a learning tool as a sledghammer in a glass blowing shop. It tells you the image is OK but not how to make it better.
I learned photography from a bunch of sites on the internet, a lot of reading, a lot of looking over someones shoulder and a lot of doing. This place use to be a pretty good tool for those learning but it really isn't any more. It is just a contest now. There are just too many people entering... JMO |
I'm amazed that someone that has received 250 comments and has made 95 comments in return has the gaul to complain about how someone that has made 5670 comments while receiving 1500 in return does his comments. Want to know what's wrong with the comments here? look in a mirror!
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05/16/2003 10:58:20 AM · #54 |
Is it just me, or is this getting blown way out of proportion?
Hasn't enough been said?
I think this is getting out of hand now. |
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05/16/2003 11:02:10 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by Toddh:
Is it just me, or is this getting blown way out of proportion?
Hasn't enough been said?
I think this is getting out of hand now. |
It is getting blown out of proportion... there is no movement here to 'move' to a number based comment system.
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05/16/2003 11:12:42 AM · #56 |
It is not feasible to have a family life, work, and meet all of the other commitments that are required of an individual to vote and leave specific comments on so many pictures. The pictures seem to be getting better and better on this site so the participants are learning somewhere, it may be DPC and it may not.
I have been here since April of last year and my skills have improved considerably and many people have helped me do that, either directly or indirectly, John Setzler included. I think John's list of what he feels a number should represent, is pretty much right on, and if every one followed a similar example a simple number left in the comment section would have a good deal of meaning. I am more concerned with the very low scores that some Dweeb leaves when you know that your entry deserves better. Of course I will never complain when someone gives me a 10 on one of my poorer entries, and I haven't heard anybody else saying "Hey somebody just gave me a 10, how can I get them to vote over I didn't deserve that much"!
Oh, by the way I don't think the movement is towards just a number for a comment. In the "Secondary Colors" challenge I now have 112 votes and only one comment, so the move looks to me to be no comments at all.
Message edited by author 2003-05-16 11:27:15. |
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05/16/2003 11:52:00 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
Originally posted by gpflman:
For now, I am content to be a student and to try to learn from others who are definitely better at this than I am |
Matt I would suggest posting your images on other sites to get feedback and learn. Sorry to say that with as many entries and now the "Judge by the numbers" system that is being talked about here, comments and critiques will not be coming. A generic *5* (average image, not to grabbing, composition could be better, blah, blah, blah) from someone means nothing to your image. Is about as helpful a learning tool as a sledghammer in a glass blowing shop. It tells you the image is OK but not how to make it better.
I learned photography from a bunch of sites on the internet, a lot of reading, a lot of looking over someones shoulder and a lot of doing. This place use to be a pretty good tool for those learning but it really isn't any more. It is just a contest now. There are just too many people entering... JMO |
I agree.....
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05/16/2003 12:34:59 PM · #58 |
Most of you know I am flattered if I get a good comment from Seztler, I don't think he is a photography god or anything like that, I recognize him for his talent though, and I do appreciate the comments he has left that gave me some direction in where I went wrong.
Maybe the real problem is something that has gone unsaid...I already said I prefer the comment over a number cause then I learn something but maybe Setzler would be kind enough to answer a question that might solve a lot of the problems with the number for a comment. I am pretty sure I already know what his answer will be, but I'm going to ask it...
If you post a number say a 3 to someones photo they see in your profile that it says this...."3 - Your photo meets the challenge but is weak in other areas. It is probably uninspiring subjectively. It doesn't speak to me and had no artistic value (to me). It would possibly look good posted on the refrigerator with a magnet."
If you would get a pm asking for more direction on a particular photo would you be willing to answer each such request?
I know those of you who have asked Seztler for help already know he will but I can't help but think maybe he needs to just end this discussion by saying if you question the reasoning or want to know why it falls into this just ask!
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05/16/2003 12:43:03 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
If you post a number say a 3 to someones photo they see in your profile that it says this...."3 - Your photo meets the challenge but is weak in other areas. It is probably uninspiring subjectively. It doesn't speak to me and had no artistic value (to me). It would possibly look good posted on the refrigerator with a magnet."
If you would get a pm asking for more direction on a particular photo would you be willing to answer each such request?
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No... i would not answer the request.... first of all, as stated several times, I have decided not to leave number comments because of the obvious backlash created by it. As I also originally stated, the nubmer comment would only be given to a photo that I would have skipped the comment on otherwise.
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05/16/2003 12:58:59 PM · #60 |
I love this site. I have learned more than if I had taken a first rate expensive photography class. I am disappointed though, that there is so much quibbling going on.
Why not just be in the "class" and exhibit your challenge and accept what comes up? I think that would stop the quibbling. |
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05/16/2003 01:20:47 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by clues56:
I love this site. I have learned more than if I had taken a first rate expensive photography class. I am disappointed though, that there is so much quibbling going on.
Why not just be in the "class" and exhibit your challenge and accept what comes up? I think that would stop the quibbling. |
Well, the problem with just accepting what comes up is that a high percentage of the scores are given by folks who simply don't know what they are doing. What is nice about recieving a number from those better talented members is it gives you a more accurate evaluation of your photo. I would have loved to have gotten a simple number comment from the quality people here. |
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05/16/2003 05:10:09 PM · #62 |
Okay, seeing as I started this thread (takes cover), I feel I should add
another comment. Firstly, I made it very clear that I appreciate the work
setzler does for this community. I have only been a member here a short
while, but it is obvious how much he has contributed here.
Secondly... I think what makes this site so addictive is the fact that
when it comes down to it, we are all here for approval. We feel good
when our photo does well, and bad when it doesn't. The key is to learn
how to become better when we don't do so well. In a perfect world, none
of us would need outside approval for what we do, but there is a little
of the approval seeking child in all of us. I suspect that more than a
few people here have projected their need for approval onto certain
members of this community. I raised this issue originally because if
one receives a low mark from one of these people without a constructive
comment, it can be quite hard to take. In a perfect world, this wouldn't
be so, but I feel this is true. I don't feel it is showing any lack of
respect to say that I would rather not know if someone has given me a
low mark without being constructive, as we all have a tendency to look
for approval for what we do externally. It is different if you receive
a good mark. My wife was excited to get an 8 from setzler!
Anyway, I know that this thread should have been over a long time ago,
and hope that this can reconcile the feelings between people who
agree wholeheartedly with me, and people who thought I may have been
complaining unnecessarily.
Thanks,
Bob |
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