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08/25/2006 08:10:49 AM · #51 |
| i'm too for nameless challenge :-) |
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08/25/2006 11:51:58 AM · #52 |
All I am proposing is remove the title until after voting is done. Why do we need it? Stop the shoehorning and the clues to who took the picture. The name can still be great- just after the challenge. It should have no effect on voting, or for making the image fit.
(I agree that there are obnoxious people that put stupid explanations in the title. Obvious things. Parenthetical explanations. I don't like this.)
If only one person lives in lower borneo and calls the shot
"lower borneo trash heap sunrise garbageman candid" than it gives it away.
"peas and carats" was good enough to win, and it would have been really cool to see that title after the contest.
But really if we are going to leave titles, we might as well allow an anonymous explanation to accompany the photo. That would shut up all the "that doesn't meet the challenge to my personal liking" bozos.
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08/25/2006 12:02:51 PM · #53 |
hmm. I think titles are pretty important...
mH |
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08/25/2006 12:05:44 PM · #54 |
Even if one were to remove the title from view until after voting would it stop those who attempt to shoe-horn an entry in? My thoughts are that it would not stop it at all. If a person REALLY desires to enter the challenge they will enter it regardless of the challenge description. Removing the title from consideration does little to stop them because now they DON'T HAVE to think or worry about a title to make it fit.
Personally, I don't care much for the idea of removing the title until after the voting is done. I think a good title can enhance the impact of a photo. Sort of icing on the cake if it is properly chosen. And I do take a long look at the photo itself before the title - sometimes it will give ADDED insight to the meaning of the photo. |
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08/25/2006 12:07:40 PM · #55 |
no way jose... i love titles... i think they are an extremely important element to a photo.
Message edited by author 2006-08-25 12:08:15. |
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08/25/2006 12:08:57 PM · #56 |
Would there be any other aspect to the challenge other than no title?
Seems like a free study to me. How do you appreciate the effort to communicate a message without some commonality to the exercise.
How do you measure the photographers ability to communcate the title without words if you have nothing to base it on?
The challenge aspect of most of the DPC challeges is in the photographer's ability to photograph something on subject within a given time frame. Images are voted down if they are precieved to not meet the challenge requirements. The only way to not meet the requirement on this one is to put a title on the entry.
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08/25/2006 12:23:24 PM · #57 |
Interesting. Here's an image that lost on two counts. A long and puzzling title and an obscure take on the Challenge.
This flower, a Skunk Cabbage, aptly named because of its strong and powerful odor, I thought was an easy answer to the Strength Challenge.
Nope. The title was so unwieldy, it gave me even more negative points. This ensured that my future titles would become (I hope) a little clearer and a lot shorter!
Just another DPC learning experience.
;>) |
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08/25/2006 12:39:23 PM · #58 |
You could always limit the number of words.
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08/25/2006 12:40:38 PM · #59 |
| It's necessary for challenges like this "scene it" one =P |
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08/25/2006 12:59:24 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
All I am proposing is remove the title until after voting is done. Why do we need it? |
Okay, you want me to be blunt...because people can be stupid! Not people are stupid, but sometimes we can be blind as a bat or just not get it. Othertimes culture plays a role. (ie: a lot of people might get an entry with two guys dressed up as the blues brothers for an entry "Blues" but a lot of younger people will be clueless.)
That said, voting can be extremely slow and tedious as you wait for reloads, etc. Even on broadband speeds. And a lot of times we miss at first glance. The title often is a simple reminder to "take a second glance there is more than might be seen in a simple first glance". It can be a nice rebuttal to our common laziness.
And, as a matter of fact there have been a few shots that I did not quite see at the aspects in the first glance.
Here is a great example of a shot requiring a second glance. At first it's spilt milk. So I glanced toward the title expecting to see "Don't Cry Over Spilt Milk"...boring...but then it read "Milk Made". And there was no maid so it wasn't a play on that. What was made about the milk? Cow made...would make sense. But the title caused me to take a second glance which resulted in me seeing the true wonderfulness of the photo.
The difference was a number of points. And IMHO, Scalvert's photo should not suffer for my stupidity or laziness. And a title allows some one to add a little insight.
It's also a great way to add humor. And to me, that is a very importent part of this site and process.
This shot of mine I entitled "Candle's Messiah" and many found it quite humorous and enjoyed the title and the wit that came about by the title and photograph.
So I am absolutely opposed to "no titles" as a standard policy. For maybe a single challenge here or there...fine. But not for the site as a whole.
For all those who keep raising this title issue. I have the perfect solution. Simply buy a "Post It!" note and stick it on your monitor so it covers up the title. Now, you can vote on the images without the influence of titles....."vwaaalaaa"
That said, it might be nice to have the option selectable by users to vote with or without titles so that we could cease from having these threads every month.
- Saj |
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08/25/2006 01:20:44 PM · #61 |
I can see both sides of the fence on this issue. I do see where it is a long stretch for a photo to meet a particular chanllenge but the title forces it. Then on the other side, the title really makes it.
My question is what about photos that simply don't meet the challenge but are very good photographs none-the-less. Sometimes it depends on the mood I'm in when voting as to how I rate them. I think that more emphisis should be put on meeting the challenge. Otherwise, let's just make everything a free study. I feel that the first thing a photographer should look at is "does it meet the challenge?". I feel that the person rating the photo should make that the first point also. Of course, there are times that I don't follow my own advice when voting. This is just my opinion. |
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08/25/2006 01:25:52 PM · #62 |
| Are you saying that non-english speaking people need to have every title translated in order to fully appreciate the photo? |
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08/25/2006 02:04:36 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
All I am proposing is remove the title until after voting is done. Why do we need it? Stop the shoehorning ... |
1) We recently reformatted the voting page so that the title is below the picture -- if you want to look at the picture and not the title, just don't scroll down.
2) It's easier to have a title and not read it, than to want a title and not have it there. At least as many people want to read the titles as don't, so the current system seems to offer the best compromise for accomodating both points of view.
3) What exactly do you mean by "shoehorning?" If you mean that the photo only "meets the challenge" with a title and should therefore be penalized, I'd say that's completely illogical -- either the photo meets the challenge or it doesn't.
If you admit it does after reading the title, then it did before too, but you just didn't see the connection ... and this, of course, is really the best answer to #2 ...
What I can't understand is why are so many people so intent on penalizing creative or unusual interpretations, seemingly going out of their way to look for reasons to consider a picture "DNMC" .... |
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08/25/2006 02:31:45 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
All I am proposing is remove the title until after voting is done. Why do we need it? Stop the shoehorning ... |
1) We recently reformatted the voting page so that the title is below the picture -- if you want to look at the picture and not the title, just don't scroll down.
2) It's easier to have a title and not read it, than to want a title and not have it there. At least as many people want to read the titles as don't, so the current system seems to offer the best compromise for accomodating both points of view.
3) What exactly do you mean by "shoehorning?" If you mean that the photo only "meets the challenge" with a title and should therefore be penalized, I'd say that's completely illogical -- either the photo meets the challenge or it doesn't.
If you admit it does after reading the title, then it did before too, but you just didn't see the connection ... and this, of course, is really the best answer to #2 ...
What I can't understand is why are so many people so intent on penalizing creative or unusual interpretations, seemingly going out of their way to look for reasons to consider a picture "DNMC" .... |
What he said! Especially that part about people first look for a reason to DNMC. Thanks General
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08/25/2006 02:35:51 PM · #65 |
Sometimes a title means nothing.
Sometimes it is a perfect fit.
Asking to get rid of *all* titles (even if only during voting) just because you don't like a few that twist things to get an image to fit a challenge is like asking to get rid of all images that are twisted to fit a challenge.
Ain't gonna happen, silly to even consider it (IMHO).
Titles are fun, interesting, stupid, wonderful, amusing, pointless, and/or necessary.
Next.
Message edited by author 2006-08-25 14:36:46. |
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08/25/2006 02:37:07 PM · #66 |
| Not every picture needs a title: it's up to the author to decide that, and not up to the viewer. The whole "I don't want to see the title" stance is really childish. A title (or absence of a title) is an integral part of every picture. |
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08/25/2006 02:38:43 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
3) What exactly do you mean by "shoehorning?" If you mean that the photo only "meets the challenge" with a title and should therefore be penalized, I'd say that's completely illogical -- either the photo meets the challenge or it doesn't.
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Shoehorning example:
Landscape image in a portrait challenge with the title 'Where'd She Go?'
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08/25/2006 02:51:56 PM · #68 |
To me the creativity doesn't end with the photo but the title.
My "Blue Ribbon" DQ was 100% title to me.
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08/25/2006 03:19:26 PM · #69 |
| I love titles - but think the idea of a title-less challenge (mentioned above) sounds fun. |
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08/25/2006 03:37:14 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by meanwile:
I love titles - but think the idea of a title-less challenge (mentioned above) sounds fun. |
Well...this thread is under the 'Web Site Suggestions' category, and correctly so as the OP wanted titles removed from all challenges until after voting. Sounded like across the board, regardless of the challenge.
There has been a thread started under the 'Challenge Suggestions' category already (probably more than once), most recently: Challenge With No Titles.
Smile and keep having fun! ;^) |
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08/25/2006 03:49:34 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
A properly chose title can greatly enhance the impact of a photo. A poorly chosen one can certainly detract. It's no different than choosing whether to use a border, or what type of border, or any other artistic choice for that matter.
Sure, a title can be used to "shoehorn" a photo into a challenge. What of it? The voters will have their say, and their word is final. |
I completely agree.
Message edited by author 2006-08-25 15:51:17. |
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08/25/2006 04:10:26 PM · #72 |
Here's a photo whose title enhanced my enjoyment of the image...
Yep, You Got Weeds
It's a good photo, but the title made it even better.
If a work of art has no title, how would you speak to others about it? If the Mona Lisa wasn't called "Mona Lisa" (or "La Gioconda"), then what would we call it? "That painting that Leonardo da Vinci did of a Florentine lady in a gauze veil with a funny smile." :D
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08/25/2006 04:50:03 PM · #73 |
posted this once before but feel it benifits from another outing.......
A title is not just there to identify a photograph with a challenge; the photograph should be strong enough to achieve this on its own. For me the title assists in identifying the journey from the photographer vision to the end result, it assists in portraying the "how" and "why"
To illustrate why I feel the title is an important part of a photograph, I would like to use the following...
In the Advanced Editing Competition Hero's - "Be they firemen, costumed superheroes, or just a personal idol, we all understand the concept of a hero. Submit a photo that illustrates a "hero".
Picture the following photograph with a number of grave stones, all neatly lines up in rows and columns; - none of the inscriptions can be read.
The photograph is in black and white, except for 1 bunch of red flowers laying in front of one of the grave stones.
Now consider the following 4 different Titles for this Photograph.
1. (no title ...)
2. Hero
3. Lest they be forgotten
4. Granddad
All of these a perfectly good titles, but they all give different perspectives.
So what do these titles suggest to me?
1. The neatly lined up graves stones suggest that these are war graves commemorating those who died in action serving their country. The red flower singles out 1 grave in particular suggesting that the person in this grave is the hero.
2. This suggests exactly the same as number 1, and the title of Hero, in the singular, assists in confirming that suggestion.
3. This title does not single out one grave in particular but suggest that all the graves are heroes, but the red flower in the photograph will obviously draw out attention to one grave in particular. The title assist in helping us reflect on what these people must have done, and the sacrifices that they made, to try and make things better for later generations.
4. This title is more emotive and personal, and evokes images of a small child having placed the flowers on the grave on their granddad. A man who was loved and worshiped, and is still greatly missed.
1 photographs,
4 titles,
4 thought processes,
.. but for me 1 winner .. |
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08/25/2006 08:11:54 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
2) It's easier to have a title and not read it, than to want a title and not have it there. At least as many people want to read the titles as don't, so the current system seems to offer the best compromise for accomodating both points of view. |
I'd like to address this point made by GeneralE:
The fact that one is required to make a title is no compromise - As one cannot enter a challenge without a title and without entering something. Usually if one does not want a title "untitled" or some other dingbat junk is entered or some other multi-step process required just to have a blank space.
I say it is an infringement of choice - I always find this requirement for a title a disturbing aspect of the submission process, and a significant detriment for those situations where the photographer does not want to write anything. As it stands, everyone has to make a title, I say those who want a title may certianly fill in the blank as before, but don't make it difficult if one does not want one. |
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08/25/2006 09:06:43 PM · #75 |
 "True Friendship as Size Doesn't Matter" re the "Odd Couple" Challenge.
This is one of my early challenge entries called "True Friendship as Size Doesn't Matter" re the "Odd Couple" Challenge.
It this didn't have a title, re this challenge, I think it may have achieved the response it did.
I am so proud of this image, as it is everything that I stand for and believe in.
I love who we are, and love educationing the people out there who may not understand, or do not realize how to accept differances in our lives.
Without out a "title", this image would not have the impact re the message I wanted to share with you all.
I actually took a long time in deciding to enter this image into this challenge, as I didn't want to make a stance, and say "look at us" and have you feel sorry about who we are.
I just wanted to say, that we are no differant than anyone else, only a little bit shorter.
This was my chance to show you how I feel about myself, and also my loved ones.
I do think a "title" helps to record the image, and also a way of remembering that image.
I ofen remember an image by its "title" alone, but sometimes remember the image by it subject matter, or it impact visually.
It a personal choice.....
This is only my point of view, and you may not agree with it and thats ok.
ps; This image means more to me than any other image in my portfolio, because it is close to my heart.
Message edited by author 2006-08-25 21:10:16.
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