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07/08/2006 03:14:44 PM · #26 |
| Yeah I would just let it go and make sure you change your passwords. It does sound more likely this occured from one of your two homes. |
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07/08/2006 03:16:56 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, I echo Alienyst. It was the first thing I thought of. The IP should not follow the computer. I'd really try to sort that nut out BEFORE I went and raised hell at the pawn shop. |
My guess is that is she is knows for a fact that those are the only two computers she has ever used to log on to DPC. Therefore, admins can tell when it's her computer vs. any other, based on dates and patterns and exclusion of the home IP. After the date the computer was pawned, a different IP address from her home logged on, and the logical conclusion is that it's coming from her sister's computer since the passwords were not stored anywhere else.
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07/08/2006 03:23:47 PM · #28 |
| don't know but would like to know how just for curiousity sake they are able to tell? Unless they are able to track the Mac address all others can change |
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07/08/2006 03:40:00 PM · #29 |
Okay, so to make sure I understand-
1) the admins show logins from two seperate IP addresses.
2) your sister has her computer at a pawnshop. The first login from an IP address that is not your home occured on the 20th.
With these statements, a reasonable person could conclude that the logins possibly occured from the computer at the pawnshop.
With that said, I think a discussion with the pawnshop is perfectly in order. They may be unawares that staff in the store is using the computer in that manner. Depending on the laws in your area, there may be some protection. Best bet is to check with the DA's office in your area.
Let us know how it goes! |
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07/08/2006 03:54:21 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, I echo Alienyst. It was the first thing I thought of. The IP should not follow the computer. I'd really try to sort that nut out BEFORE I went and raised hell at the pawn shop. |
My guess is that is she is knows for a fact that those are the only two computers she has ever used to log on to DPC. Therefore, admins can tell when it's her computer vs. any other, based on dates and patterns and exclusion of the home IP. After the date the computer was pawned, a different IP address from her home logged on, and the logical conclusion is that it's coming from her sister's computer since the passwords were not stored anywhere else. |
Well, if this is the deductive path, then it stands to reason it is also possible someone guessed her password. Perhaps it was something simple like "password" or her username done over again. |
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07/08/2006 03:58:42 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by blemt:
Okay, so to make sure I understand-
1) the admins show logins from two seperate IP addresses.
2) your sister has her computer at a pawnshop. The first login from an IP address that is not your home occured on the 20th.
With these statements, a reasonable person could conclude that the logins possibly occured from the computer at the pawnshop.
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Here's my issue. Assuming it is someone at the pawnshop, we have to ascribe the following behavior to them.
1) Turning the computer on.
2) Searching through history to find DPC.
3) Searching through "My profile" for the specific pictures to vandalize or finding specific pages in the history which won't look like anything special from the page name.
4) Being able to navigate to "My Portfolio" and understanding how to edit the comments in a picture. (hell, it took me a few months to learn how to do this).
That just doesn't make sense to me. Why would someone even do this? My suspects would be one of the following:
1) Someone who knew you and was either making a joke or has a personal issue with you.
2) Someone on the site who you offended and was able to guess your password.
Message edited by author 2006-07-08 15:59:50. |
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07/08/2006 04:01:17 PM · #32 |
| I agree it sounds more like someone who knows you and has been on this site or watched you go to this site. Its easy not to want to believe this but even friends of mine do cruel things like this |
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07/08/2006 04:11:29 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by blemt:
Okay, so to make sure I understand-
1) the admins show logins from two seperate IP addresses.
2) your sister has her computer at a pawnshop. The first login from an IP address that is not your home occured on the 20th.
With these statements, a reasonable person could conclude that the logins possibly occured from the computer at the pawnshop.
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Here's my issue. Assuming it is someone at the pawnshop, we have to ascribe the following behavior to them.
1) Turning the computer on.
2) Searching through history to find DPC.
3) Searching through "My profile" for the specific pictures to vandalize or finding specific pages in the history which won't look like anything special from the page name.
4) Being able to navigate to "My Portfolio" and understanding how to edit the comments in a picture. (hell, it took me a few months to learn how to do this).
That just doesn't make sense to me. Why would someone even do this? My suspects would be one of the following:
1) Someone who knew you and was either making a joke or has a personal issue with you.
2) Someone on the site who you offended and was able to guess your password. |
1.) Turning on the computer is not difficult and probably would be done 100% of the time to see if it even works.
2.) Not necessarily. She could have had it bookmarked in her "Links" folder if using IE which shows up right on the browser's front page as soon as you open it. Or it was bookmarked on the desktop or some other place where it is very noticable.
3.) Again not difficult. I assume she used something like Roboform which stores logins and pops up automatically to any page with a login. So the person logs in and immediately knows which profile to look at and just gets curious and starts looking around.
4.) Not difficult either for an internet savvy person. Also, this person would know which profile to look at since it tells you who is logged in to the site at the top.
However, even saying all of that I agree it could be someone that knows her but then again maybe not. At this point it could be anybody.
Message edited by author 2006-07-08 16:15:16. |
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07/08/2006 04:30:57 PM · #34 |
MAC addresses and IP addresses are not permanently assigned. IP's can be depending on your ISP and the type of service. MAC addresses are not. To get a new one just unplug your modem for about 15 minutes and plug it back in OR experience a power failure in your area or a power failure in your ISP server area or as is the case here with cable, we frequently lose service and since my cable modem is on a battery backup, when the service comes back, if I don't unplug the modem for a few minutes, I can't get online since the MAC address is no longer valid. This also is the top complaint I get from people whose computers I work on and they are always amazed that it is something as simple as unplugging the modem for 15 minutes and plugging it back in.
Anyway, talked to a lawyer friend a few minutres ago and he feels you probably don't have any legal issue with the pawn shop unless they stole money via a saved credit card number or something. But you do have a moral issue and possibly, depending on how many similar complaints may have been received, an invasion of privacy issue. he felt chances were slim. You left the computer in their possession and they have every right to turn on the computer to check that everything works properly - including the modem. Hence the moral issue - if they did use it, you would then have to prove they maligned you maliciously with damage to get the invasion of privacy issue. He doubted any DA would prosecute unless they stole or there were numerous similar complaints about the same shop.
I still say it sounds like someone who knows you. As someone above said, it just doesn't make sense for a stranger to do this. As I said earlier, it sounds personal and to navigate this site to just those pics and change the description by a stranger also doesn't make sense. If it was a stranger, why wouldn't they just delete the photos or upload something else? I would look closer to home - friends, family, enemies. A cruel joke yes, but damaging? No, not really. Really does sound like someone trying to hurt you and why would a total stranger do this kind of prank?
Message edited by author 2006-07-08 16:31:32. |
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07/08/2006 04:41:37 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
MAC addresses and IP addresses are not permanently assigned. IP's can be depending on your ISP and the type of service. MAC addresses are not. To get a new one just unplug your modem for about 15 minutes and plug it back in OR experience a power failure in your area or a power failure in your ISP server area or as is the case here with cable, we frequently lose service and since my cable modem is on a battery backup, when the service comes back, if I don't unplug the modem for a few minutes, I can't get online since the MAC address is no longer valid. This also is the top complaint I get from people whose computers I work on and they are always amazed that it is something as simple as unplugging the modem for 15 minutes and plugging it back in.
Anyway, talked to a lawyer friend a few minutres ago and he feels you probably don't have any legal issue with the pawn shop unless they stole money via a saved credit card number or something. But you do have a moral issue and possibly, depending on how many similar complaints may have been received, an invasion of privacy issue. he felt chances were slim. You left the computer in their possession and they have every right to turn on the computer to check that everything works properly - including the modem. Hence the moral issue - if they did use it, you would then have to prove they maligned you maliciously with damage to get the invasion of privacy issue. He doubted any DA would prosecute unless they stole or there were numerous similar complaints about the same shop.
I still say it sounds like someone who knows you. As someone above said, it just doesn't make sense for a stranger to do this. As I said earlier, it sounds personal and to navigate this site to just those pics and change the description by a stranger also doesn't make sense. If it was a stranger, why wouldn't they just delete the photos or upload something else? I would look closer to home - friends, family, enemies. A cruel joke yes, but damaging? No, not really. Really does sound like someone trying to hurt you and why would a total stranger do this kind of prank? |
Mac Addresses are hardware manufacture inprinted address that are build into the bios of the NIC MODEM or any other Comunication device. These are unique. Your cable modem has the one stored in it from the pc that allows the ISP to control who is on the unit. There are ways around that too. WHen you unplug the cable or dsl modem you are resetting it and it is looking for a signal. If you don't believe me try this.. Run a command prompt ipconfig /all write down the physical address then ipconfig /release
then Ipconfig /renew
the IP may change but the mac address for the ethernet card will stay the same. Granted there are programs that can recode the embedded Mac address not good if you want to keep a warranty. I do agree with Alien sounds like someone you know. Oh my Creds MCSE A+ S+ Hp ASE ASP IBM Business Partner Platinum level, Dell Premier Certified. Procurve Certified. 12 years in the field
Message edited by author 2006-07-08 16:47:22. |
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07/08/2006 06:08:09 PM · #36 |
If someone was playing with the computer, you should probably be able to tell by checking the browser history & cache. If it has been used, there is probably a trail. I doubt someone just fooling around would take the effort to cover their tracks.
I would frankly have expected that they would also have made comments and such under your id on other photos or in the forums. From looking at your profile, I don't think this is the case.
I hate to say it, but I'm not convinced the two occurances are related. More than likely, somebody you know has played a bad joke on you. |
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07/08/2006 06:21:43 PM · #37 |
Legal advice? not from me.
But I can tell you my experience from working in a pawnshop a few years back. I worked part-time at a pawn/computer store that bought old computers (or just parts) in bulk from various places and then resold them. My job was to take all the computers apart and test each and every component to make sure it worked properly. Then make good working computers out of the working parts.
When I computer was pawned, it was first sent to me before being put in the storeroom. My job in this case was to check it over and make sure it worked properly, and ... brace yourself ... wipe the hard drive.
It's ok, take the time to catch your breath.
Ready? Good.
The first reaction to this is usually 'You can't do that', but that is not true. The computer was pawned, not the software. The shop made it quite clear they were not responsible for personal information. The software is copyprotected and lisenced, and the owner didn't want to worry about staying legal with each and every piece of software on the drive -- many of which can not be installed on a system not in the possession of the person that owns the license. Wiping the drive prevents a lot of problems and completely protected the company from accusations such as the one in this thread.
The best advice I can give is to just let it pass. Sure the sister-in-law could have been more careful with your personal information (if she knew it was saved). Even the basic precaution of a password protected login for the computer would have prevented this. But, bottom line is it's not her information -- it's yours. Basic safety guidelines are to never save your personal information on a system others have access to and if you have to use such a system, wipe the history and browser cache afterwords.
Sorry to say there isn't much you can except take it as a learning experience -- your personal and private information is your responsiblity. Leave it where others can find and while it may still be personal, it is no longer private since there is no expectation of privacy on a system others have access to. Just be thankful this learning experience was at such a small cost and move on -- but, hopefully, not without taking the lesson to heart.
David
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07/08/2006 06:27:59 PM · #38 |
Wow...that is scary. I now work on a new computer and while the old computer is still here (Kita uses here) it has made we aware that all that info is still on the old pc so I just went in and changed my passwords. Thanks for the warning and I seriously hope you work something out. What they did was horrible and very scary...for everyone.
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07/08/2006 06:30:10 PM · #39 |
If the computer is collateral and not "sold temporarily" I think you have to return it in the same condition in which it was pawned, certainly in operable condition. I have a hard time believing wiping the drive is legal, and certainly sounds unethical. You should ask the customer to demonstrate for you that it works at the time of acceptance -- I don't see where the pawnshop has any right to make use of items left for collateral -- only an obligation to safeguard them.
Now, once the loan period is passed and the item -- not redeemed -- is put up for sale, then I agree you have an ethical obligation to wipe the drive to protect the original owner's personal info and to avoid reselling software, but not while the owner has a valid claim-check. |
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07/08/2006 06:36:05 PM · #40 |
PM me the name of the Village where this pawn shop is...
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07/08/2006 07:08:28 PM · #41 |
Well then I guess my understanding was wrong and I stand corrected.
Doesn't run from c prompt. Running from the run off start menu it doesn't stay on screen long enough to read anything.
Message edited by author 2006-07-08 19:25:08. |
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07/08/2006 08:27:04 PM · #42 |
wowzA! this thread had really taken off! I was hopeing this thread would quietly die with the rest...boy was I wrong..lol
Thanks ken for the offer to burn thier little village(its in harlan kentucky)... ;o)
tho I am not sure what is fact and what isn't. I really dont know what to do, do I keep my plan of raising hell with the pawn shop or do I just consider my lesson learned and shut up? I was hopeing this thread would die quietly but apparently its not going to go away quietly..so this now turns into what should I do thread...lol(or more like what would you do in my shoes thread?)
this has actually become a funny thing between the hubby and I....stupidity is actualy a funnny thing when u can laugh about it...ROFLMAO
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07/08/2006 08:43:33 PM · #43 |
| My vote? I think you have nothing to gain from going to the pawn shop. You don't have much legal recourse and far from convincing proff. I guess you let it die. |
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07/08/2006 08:49:53 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Well then I guess my understanding was wrong and I stand corrected.
Doesn't run from c prompt. Running from the run off start menu it doesn't stay on screen long enough to read anything. |
FYI - didn't see the context of this before it was edited, but ipconfig should run from the command line. If you look to the top of your screen capture, it looks as if your machine has an invalid path set.
If this is completely off target from the pre-edited message, nevermind.. |
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07/09/2006 02:00:32 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
If the computer is collateral and not "sold temporarily" I think you have to return it in the same condition in which it was pawned, certainly in operable condition. I have a hard time believing wiping the drive is legal, and certainly sounds unethical. You should ask the customer to demonstrate for you that it works at the time of acceptance -- I don't see where the pawnshop has any right to make use of items left for collateral -- only an obligation to safeguard them.
Now, once the loan period is passed and the item -- not redeemed -- is put up for sale, then I agree you have an ethical obligation to wipe the drive to protect the original owner's personal info and to avoid reselling software, but not while the owner has a valid claim-check. |
The owner said the software and anything else that may be on the drive (legal or not) was not part of the pawning. It is the customer's responsibility to surrender only that which was being pawned. He viewed it similar to someone pawning a garbage can with trash in it -- the trash would be dumped out before the can is stored. The software was of no value to him so he did not feel obligated to place in value on it for anyone else.
I didn't say I agreed with it, but I do understand his point of view. Actually, I came to find out there were a lot of things I didn't agree with going on there. When I did learn of them I quit and went to work somewhere else. They still owe me nearly $300 in pay that I will never get out of them.
I mentioned it to stress that when you allow personal information to be away from your person there is no reason to assume others will treat that information with any degree of respect.
David
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07/09/2006 12:45:40 PM · #46 |
If you get the computer back with the software intact, open the browser "history". You will get a list of sites visited, and the dates they were visited. (you can do this on all the computers in question).
The IP address can be static or dynamic. If static, the IP address follows the PC, but the PC _probably_ cannot be used on other cable modems or DSL devices.
The MAC address is fixed at the factory, but many devices (like some DSL modems) allow the user to change the MAC address. |
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07/09/2006 01:13:39 PM · #47 |
Hey Cher,
I think you should definitely go ask some questions of the pawn shop. Regardless of whether or not they were legally wrong, if one of their employees deliberately and knowingly updated your photographer comments with cruel drivel, I'm sure it's something that the pawn shop owner wants to know about. At the least, you could advise them that you intend to name them publicly, which surely shan't be good for their business.
Whether or not they were wiping the hard drive, whether or not they had legal right to get on the Internet with the computer, whether or not it was legally fine, it's still wrong for an employee of a business to use a stolen password to modify copyrighted content.
I'd go there and start with some friendly questions, ask to see the computer in question, check the history, and go from there.
With that said, the comments do tend to look like it was someone who knows you, and is perhaps afraid to "own up" to a stupid practical joke. Are you absolutely sure no one could have guessed your password?
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07/09/2006 01:36:24 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
Well then I guess my understanding was wrong and I stand corrected.
Doesn't run from c prompt. Running from the run off start menu it doesn't stay on screen long enough to read anything. |
LOL
Here is it with my data blurred out so we can all see that this is how you check you mac address. Hey Alien what version of windows are you running?
Message edited by author 2006-07-09 13:38:33. |
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07/09/2006 02:43:14 PM · #49 |
Good luck in this witch hunt. But I'd have to say that if the IP address points to your sister's computer, try to look at the Pawn agreement that she has, to verify that it was brought there when she says that it was. The IP address is given by the internet provider. If you can find the MAC address someway (ask the folks here at DPC), that would point to a specific computer, as it is embedded in the network card on the computer itself, ruling out any other computer. The thing about a second computer being used from your sister in law's house (under the same IP address) is a stretch because if it was not a computer you had been signed into, there would be no cookies stored on it with your sign in information.
What I would do:
1st verify the date that the pawn shop took the computer.
2nd verify the MAC address if you can.
3rd find out if any other PC is at your sister in law's house, and if so, have you used it yourself.
4th Has anyone else at your sister in law's house used her computer(s)?]
5th Buy the PC back, and look at the history logs for your internet connection, it will tell you (if the settings store the data that long) if someone was signed onto DPC on the date of the change, proof that the change was made at the pawn shop (or not).
6th if #5 proves it was the pawn shop, call the pawn shop and ask them who is allowed to use the computer during it's time there. If only the employees of the pawn shop, find out who was working at the time when the change was made, then confront them.
I personally feel that if the log came from an IP address at your sister's house on that date, then that is where you start to unravel this mystery.
From what you've said, it seems to point to the house, not the pawn shop. I have been trained in networks, and work in the tech industry, although I'm far from a pro at this. |
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07/09/2006 03:17:57 PM · #50 |
How do you know the user logged on from your sister-in-law's computer? Did the IP match a previous login from her location? Or did the admin here just inform you that it was an IP other than your usual one?
If the IP is other and does not match any other IP used here then you can do a dns lookup to at least see if it is the same area/region where you are at.
If the IP is the same as the previous logins from the sister-in-law's computer then that suggests it was logged in from the sister-in-law's house and not just her computer.
You cant really do anything without proof and an usual IP logging in your account is not enough evidence to suggest it was the pawn shop. It may be a logical conclusion but unless you have the IP that was used and the IP of the pawnshop and they both match then there is no evidence.
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