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04/03/2003 10:35:45 AM · #26 |
interestingly, emorgan, alot of the more outspoken protestors are also teens. here in DC, a number of school's teens have risked suspension to go on anti war protest marches....
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04/03/2003 10:37:26 AM · #27 |
| AAck - please don't close down these forums...I find it educational to listen to the opinions of my fellow americans as well as those from our international friends. We have a couple of passionate pro war people arguing against world sentiment. Let them speak their frustrations, but don't egg them on to insults. Remember that their way of thinking is exactly like the US administrations. Perhaps we need more than one regime change. |
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04/03/2003 10:39:03 AM · #28 |
Who egged anyone on? The first post that started this thread was a direct insult to France.
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04/03/2003 10:44:44 AM · #29 |
| Yes. But maybe certain posters have earned the right to be ignored rather than encouraged. |
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04/03/2003 10:46:30 AM · #30 |
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Message edited by author 2003-04-03 21:25:26.
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04/03/2003 10:52:43 AM · #31 |
ok i am done. no more war posts. it appears that the thinly veiled censorship will work. i'm sorry if i offended anyone by insults, there is no bad blood between any of us in my opinion outside of the rant forums. it's a touchy subject, and barbs fly both ways. i have made very valid points i think, but i have been written off because of a difference of opinion. it sure wouldn't have been this way if the bunch of people who email me all the time saying how much they agree with me would have posted in the defense of the position. however this is not the case, so instead of burning all my bridges here i will quit. again i have no qualms with anyone oustide of the rant forum at all. i could talk to ben or mag or generale or zadore about photography without ever talking about the war. that's why the rant forum is cool, it's like an isolated area where people get get what's on their minds out. it's your website though, and i'm not to push the limit anymore
edit:i should have added lisae to the group that i could talk to with no problems outside of the rant forums
Message edited by author 2003-04-03 11:05:47.
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04/03/2003 11:00:11 AM · #32 |
| achiral - You're a good debater, don't quit! Just don't hold all the citizens of any country accountable for the actions of its government. |
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04/03/2003 11:01:25 AM · #33 |
| achiral - Don't quit, the world needs to hear your voice because you speak for the Bush administration. Just try not to get so frustrated that you cross the line with insults and likewise everyone else should be careful also. If a post seems incendiary, skip it. |
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04/03/2003 11:05:08 AM · #34 |
achiral -- There is no intent to silence anyone's ideas, just to keep the level of the discussion and language on a reasonable and less emotionally-charged plane...perhaps if we could view as more an educational opportunity and less a contest or debate it would go better, since what we say will probably have little effect in the "real" world anyway...
In the meantime, I welcome your photographic contributions and suggestions -- we should all spend some more time on that! Thanks for your comments. |
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04/03/2003 11:42:01 AM · #35 |
There is so much blatient racism that it sickens me. What's worse is the our own gov't has made to effort to stop it.
Having been to france for an extended amout of time, i find the people just as kind as every else in the world(which is very very kind). As with any culture if you act as a respectful guest, they'll return the favor. People, we're all world citizens and have the same types of desires.
achial - it's just a debate. It's bad form to sling racial or nationalist insults in debates. Nothing carries beyond the rant forums as far as i'm considered.
Message edited by author 2003-04-03 12:24:38.
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04/03/2003 11:48:56 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by achiral:
edit:i should have added lisae to the group that i could talk to with no problems outside of the rant forums |
Thanks :). It's true, and honestly, anyone who can keep up an argument with me has my respect, even if we disagree on everything. |
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04/03/2003 12:39:30 PM · #37 |
my beef with this thread is the ad hominem attack on an entire people simply because of political opinions. that just won't fly.
regarding the debate/discussion: I think that's fine as long as people refrain from calling EACH OTHER names. Arguing a viewpoint is one thing, saying someone is stupid, crazy, deviant, whatever -- there's no place for that here.
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04/03/2003 12:54:31 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
achiral - Don't quit, the world needs to hear your voice because you speak for the Bush administration. Just try not to get so frustrated that you cross the line with insults and likewise everyone else should be careful also. If a post seems incendiary, skip it. |
totally agree with this...i think talking to others is most human, reflecting passion and promotion of understanding and tolerance which would help in a lot of conflicts in the world...
talking is good. and no hard feelings from me...
james.
Message edited by author 2003-04-03 12:54:56. |
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04/03/2003 01:02:07 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
my beef with this thread is the ad hominem attack on an entire people simply because of political opinions. that just won't fly.
regarding the debate/discussion: I think that's fine as long as people refrain from calling EACH OTHER names. Arguing a viewpoint is one thing, saying someone is stupid, crazy, deviant, whatever -- there's no place for that here. |
hear hear! |
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04/03/2003 04:11:41 PM · #40 |
I used to post a little more frequently, but had to stop due to the ad hominem, ad hominem tu quoque (very popular), circumstantial ad hominem, post hoc, and a number of other fallacious arguments. I found myself falling prey to them as well, which never bodes well in debate.
Considering it's a rant forum, we should expect no less.
I would much rather see an "Off Topic" forum heading (sibling to "Announcements", "Challenges", et cetera) with some interesting forum sections in it (e.g., "Rant" perhaps, "Debate", "Political"). Real threading would be even better, but mailing lists and newsgroups are better for that. (I would even volunteer to set up such a mailing list).
Speaker's Corner is fine, but I prefer civil debate. |
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04/03/2003 04:33:41 PM · #41 |
| oh no, look what i dun did! I'd like to say that I also harbor no hard feelings toward anyone and I fully understand that we have a large range of opinions on the war. Personally, I can see why people get to saying ridiculous things that they probablly don't even mean. Those types of comments are often the only ones that get any reaction, albeit bad ones; the rest of the censored debating is interesting but we all know by now that it won't get us anywhere and we all just get frustrated with ourselves that we can't get the other people to be "right". All I know is that everyone thinks they are right and thinks they somehow have the power to prove that, but are rarely succesful in convincing the wrong, who are also right. Me, I stick to being friendly unless attacked and I guess I was really just complaining because everytime I see one of these threads I waste my time reading the whole thing when it would be much more productive to go out and take pictures. Although, perhaps if we keep this up and the site gains incredible exposure we will all become world leaders for our nations and we'll replace the UN. |
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04/04/2003 12:08:22 AM · #42 |
gosh there is so much to comment on... might be better not to... but nothing I said was racist... French is a nationality I believe, and what I said was about the nation not any of the individual races that make up the nation.. that nation is made up of many races including my own... I have friends of all races and racist is the last thing I am... I am just so disgusted at the actions of some of their citizens and their government that I want to throw-up... especially with the recent desecration of the war graves... what some of you against the war say seems completely illogical and makes little or no sense... sometimes things are good and bad... no in-between... and in this case we are the good guys.. saddam is bad... it's frustrating to hear the reasons some of you are against it... from my point of view you seem completely lost in a dream world.... (you probably feel the same way about me) but what you forget is that people like me and people like our troops would die fighting for you to have the right to express that view, no matter how loony we might think your ideals and opinions are... on a quick note, Mag99, check out the rant "the real Hollywood idiots" for some fun info on your question of education... if things go as I think they will, I think some of you might change your tune about how you feel, especially when you see how horrible saddam really is...... my biggest fear is that when we find the evidence, some will say we planted it... that makes me nuts just thinking about it, because I know it will happen.... the great stories though will be from the embedded reporters... I can not wait to see what they have to say.. when reading some of the stories today I had to hold back tears...
Anyway, I love this place and don't want to be banned... I know some the things I have said are inflammatory, but some of the things I said have also been logical and complete argumentative points that somehow went unanswered, so continuing to argue point/counterpoint seems well, pointless :oP
Anyway, no more war talk, at least for a while, let's see how it turns out. then talk again... back to the photos... and speaking of photos, here is a shot of how all of this makes me feel.... (warning, not for the queasy viewer) great stop motion though
how I feel
Message edited by author 2003-04-04 00:10:38.
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04/04/2003 03:59:44 AM · #43 |
If you are going to make fun of some one at least look up the proper grammar to do it.
The only funny thing to me about the map was complete ignorance of French. Makes the author look ignorant, uneducated, and though I am hesitant to say ... a redneck.
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04/05/2003 12:14:01 PM · #44 |
France-bashers (and others) should enjoy this bit of satire from BBspot.com: France Demands Return of Statue of Liberty
Fans of all-out victory should cheer the entry of Microsoft into the festivities... |
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04/05/2003 01:25:25 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by dimitrii:
If you are going to make fun of some one at least look up the proper grammar to do it.
The only funny thing to me about the map was complete ignorance of French. Makes the author look ignorant, uneducated, and though I am hesitant to say ... a redneck. |
Well, many people thought tha map wus great, or it would not be circling tha net son... as for ignorance of French, well... ah see no reason to learn that language.. Ah' will never need ta know it... it is the last place on Earth I would want to go.... a friend of mine went a few years back, and tha people were downright rude ta him... anyway, no time ta proof read on here dimmy... just a typin' away as ah' see fit... it is good enough for me ta know I made an A in college English and a 98 on my term paper... my grammar can be downright perfect when I want it ta be.. yee haaa!
As for the links General, too funny!!!
Message edited by author 2003-04-05 13:30:53.
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04/05/2003 01:31:50 PM · #46 |
So ..
Just for the sake of discussion, how is saying "France is a nation of smelly frogs" any different from saying "Nigeria is a nation of monkies", "Mexico is a nation of greasy bean-eaters" or "Japan is a country of rice-eating gooks"?
Isn't this distinction a little self-serving and arbitrary? :)
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04/05/2003 01:46:17 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
So ..
Just for the sake of discussion, how is saying "France is a nation of smelly frogs" any different from saying "Nigeria is a nation of monkies", "Mexico is a nation of greasy bean-eaters" or "Japan is a country of rice-eating gooks"?
Isn't this distinction a little self-serving and arbitrary? :) |
hmm I don't think there is any difference... but then none of the statements are racist either... French, Mexican, Nigerian, and Japanese are not races.. they are nationalities... each of those countries are made up of more than one race...
I didn't write the map, and since I didn't call france smelly frogs I am assuming the map said that some place on the map???
Message edited by author 2003-04-05 13:46:46.
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04/05/2003 02:02:13 PM · #48 |
Bear in mind that race is a social construct and defined as follows:
race2 [reýs]
noun
1 a group of people of common ancestry, distinguished from others by physical characteristics, such as hair type, colour of eyes and skin, stature, etc. Principal races are Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid
2 the human race human beings collectively
3 a group of animals or plants having common characteristics that distinguish them from other members of the same species, usually forming a geographically isolated group; subspecies
4 a group of people sharing the same interests, characteristics, etc.
example: the race of authors
[ETYMOLOGY: 16th Century: from French, from Italian razza, of uncertain origin]
//www.wordreference.com/English/definition.asp?en=race
Message edited by author 2003-04-05 14:04:32. |
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04/05/2003 02:32:12 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
Bear in mind that race is a social construct and defined as follows:
race2 [reýs]
noun
1 a group of people of common ancestry, distinguished from others by physical characteristics, such as hair type, colour of eyes and skin, stature, etc. Principal races are Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid
2 the human race human beings collectively
3 a group of animals or plants having common characteristics that distinguish them from other members of the same species, usually forming a geographically isolated group; subspecies
4 a group of people sharing the same interests, characteristics, etc.
example: the race of authors
[ETYMOLOGY: 16th Century: from French, from Italian razza, of uncertain origin]
//www.wordreference.com/English/definition.asp?en=race |
well hmm ... none of those 4 definitions seem to apply.. obviously all 4 nations have each of the principle races living in within their borders... and obviously we are not speaking of the human race collectively ... neither are we speaking of plants or animals ... the last definition may be the closet to apply, however, I doubt an entire nation of people have exactly the same interests, characteristics, etc. so therefore neither apply... however, You can probably say that since definition 4 does not apply, then my sweeping statements about the entire Nation of France are ludicrous as well ... and ya know what, you would be right ... but, that is why the map is considered by most people a to be what we call a joke...
Main Entry: [1]joke
Pronunciation: 'jOk
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin jocus; perhaps akin to Old High German gehan to say, Sanskrit yAcati he asks
Date: 1670
1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something (2) : an instance of jesting : KIDDING c : PRACTICAL JOKE d : LAUGHINGSTOCK
2 : something not to be taken seriously : a trifling matter — often used in negative construction
in turn some of the inflammatory statements I made cannot be considered a joke ... the statements were simply a result of my anger at the despicable acts of some of the citizens... as well as the inaction and support of a government that does not seem to recognize when the proper time to support what should be their most valued ally... however, the war was not the cause of making fun of France... my friends and I have been doing that since our World History class in high school... also, if it makes any difference, one of my friends that plays on our soccer team is French... he says he is ashamed... we make fun of him all the time, and he makes fun of us back.. but in the end, we are all still friends and teammates...
Message edited by author 2003-04-05 14:35:20.
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04/05/2003 03:04:03 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Anachronite:
... the last definition may be the closet to apply, however, I doubt an entire nation of people have exactly the same interests, characteristics, etc. |
Thereinlies the problem with race, no large group ie. blacks, whites, asains, iraqies, french, australian etc... have the same exact interests and characteristics.
Hehe, yes i know it was a joke but there seems to be some confusion on the understanding of the word race. Furthermore, this joke is at the expense of some of your fellow DPC members. Just as it wouldn't be acceptable to post jewish or black jokes, i wonder how appropate would it be to post American Nationalist jokes... I not saying it isn't i'm just wondering where the line lies.
Message edited by author 2003-04-05 15:05:02. |
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