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04/01/2003 10:33:51 AM · #551 |
Conspiracies? It's called spin. I've made no mention of conspiracies. nice try though...
This is a clear cut case of it.
Side question:
Have you seen Bowling For Columbine? what did you think of it. I agree with many of the points made in that film.
Message edited by author 2003-04-01 10:35:48.
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04/01/2003 10:39:58 AM · #552 |
i want to see that movie, although i think michael moore's career is over because he's a bafoon.
you aren't a soldier out there in iraq, how can you question judgement after there have already been many ambush style attacks on soldiers at checkpoints, in convoys, and in urban areas. it would be really hard not to pull the trigger knowing what has recently happened. us troops aren't out there to kill civilians if that's what you're insinuating. saddam has done more to kill his own people than we will ever do.
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04/01/2003 10:47:15 AM · #553 |
I can't understand why so many people speak out as if they represent their entire country. It's an attitude that does nothing to promote the peace they so want. I don't usually post to this type of thread, but it hurts to find how people discriminate against each other, and manifest and promote misunderstanding, rather than goodwill.
I for one, see each human as an individual and wouldn't pretend to know their heart by which country they are from.
As for protesting the war, I've done that in the past, but you know what? The average person, me included, doesn't know what goes on behind the scenes. We aren't privy to the intelligence that our governments are. I'm not defending government, any government, and each of us have the liberty to express our point of view, but please allow me to express this. THINK before you speak! Are you promoting goodwill and peace? OR are you merely fanning the fire in your own desire to voice your opinion at any cost.
Now I'll say something I'm sure will get blasted since it's not politically correct. How about dealing with the world situation on your knees? Rather than point accusing fingers at someone on another continent, seek to pray for peace and promote unity.
Peace and blessings to you all.
Grayce
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04/01/2003 10:57:48 AM · #554 |
Originally posted by achiral:
i want to see that movie, although i think michael moore's career is over because he's a bafoon. |
He's already had offers of financial backing for his next TWO movies...I wish MY career was in such bad shape. |
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04/01/2003 12:04:34 PM · #555 |
Originally posted by achiral:
i want to see that movie, although i think michael moore's career is over because he's a bafoon.
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I'm afraid your very wrong on this fact. He got his notiraity by voicing his opinion in a "PC" and "spin" world. He has a very long career ahead of him.
Gracious-
Good points. I have to say that i think religion may be a part of this conflict along with race. When's the last war that that had christian vs christian. Even more interesting, when was the last war the was christian white vs christian white? This is interesting to me because the american gov't seem to have no problem bombing brown people. I have a feeling my point here will get lost or misunderstood...oh well
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04/01/2003 12:22:46 PM · #556 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by achiral:
i want to see that movie, although i think michael moore's career is over because he's a bafoon. |
He's already had offers of financial backing for his next TWO movies...I wish MY career was in such bad shape. |
what actually matters is MONEY big guy. if people refuse to watch them he will be screwed. i could make a movie, that doesn't mean anyone will watch it. and NO, the antiwar crowd won't be enough support for a movie
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04/01/2003 12:32:01 PM · #557 |
Achiral, you must not know about Michael Moore. Have you seen "Rodger and Me?" You haven't even seen his films and you have such a strong opinion?
Secondly, are you suggesting that because he pisses people off, he won't be sucessful? One word: Emmenem (sp?)
Message edited by author 2003-04-01 12:32:24.
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04/01/2003 12:40:50 PM · #558 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
Achiral, you must not know about Michael Moore. Have you seen "Rodger and Me?" You haven't even seen his films and you have such a strong opinion?
Secondly, are you suggesting that because he pisses people off, he won't be sucessful? One word: Emmenem (sp?) |
hahaha, you are a funny guy. comparing a person with worldwide mass appeal to some idiot that makes documentaries. i saw all i needed to see about him at the oscars. embrace him though, i don't care. and i'm still going to see that movie
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04/01/2003 01:06:28 PM · #559 |
<,This is interesting to me because the american gov't seem to have no problem bombing brown people.>>>
This is something that the media plays into too. they love to photograph people in ethinc garb. The ones in Nikes and walkmen don't make as good cover photos. They like to shoot (oops, photograph) our troops looking out of stone huts. They use the word "village" instead of town. We bomb a "market" not a shopping mall. It all sounds so quaint and primitive and removed from our way of life. Makes us forget that Iraq is an urban society with like 80% of people in the service sector and 5% in agriculture. |
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04/01/2003 01:09:50 PM · #560 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
<,This is interesting to me because the american gov't seem to have no problem bombing brown people.>>>
This is something that the media plays into too. they love to photograph people in ethinc garb. The ones in Nikes and walkmen don't make as good cover photos. They like to shoot (oops, photograph) our troops looking out of stone huts. They use the word "village" instead of town. We bomb a "market" not a shopping mall. It all sounds so quaint and primitive and removed from our way of life. Makes us forget that Iraq is an urban society with like 80% of people in the service sector and 5% in agriculture. |
The way things are set up in a lot of countries is that they have villages and markets. Greece still has those. Why not iraq too? I actually think the words "shopping mall" are almost exclusively american. In england they're called shopping centers. In other poorer countries, they just don't have things like shopping centers/malls. They still have road markets (including greece). bleh. + if I were a reporter in the region, I would use the same local wording for what I'm reporting on.
Message edited by author 2003-04-01 13:12:58. |
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04/01/2003 01:22:51 PM · #561 |
Micheal Moore is big in the documentary world. Remeber this is my industry here.
Emmemem was at one time only big in the rap sector before he grew to his current status.
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by Geocide:
Achiral, you must not know about Michael Moore. Have you seen "Rodger and Me?" You haven't even seen his films and you have such a strong opinion?
Secondly, are you suggesting that because he pisses people off, he won't be sucessful? One word: Emmenem (sp?) |
hahaha, you are a funny guy. comparing a person with worldwide mass appeal to some idiot that makes documentaries. i saw all i needed to see about him at the oscars. embrace him though, i don't care. and i'm still going to see that movie |
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04/01/2003 01:36:34 PM · #562 |
Originally posted by achiral:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by achiral:
i want to see that movie, although i think michael moore's career is over because he's a bafoon. |
He's already had offers of financial backing for his next TWO movies...I wish MY career was in such bad shape. |
what actually matters is MONEY big guy. if people refuse to watch them he will be screwed. i could make a movie, that doesn't mean anyone will watch it. and NO, the antiwar crowd won't be enough support for a movie |
I believe "Bowling For Columbine" has grossed (so far, before Oscar) something like $40 million on a $3 million investment, not bad even by Enron standards. People are offering to fund his movies as an INVESTMENT, because they think they will make a PROFIT.
I do not know on what demographic analysis they are basing their fiscal projections, but either they believe the "pro-war crowd" will check out the opposition, or there are in fact enough folks sick of the Military-Indistrial Complex (which we were first warned about by President Eisenhower, a Republican) rip-off of the common citizen that they will flock to the cinema in sufficient numbers to provide an acceptable ROI.
Message edited by author 2003-04-01 13:37:35. |
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04/01/2003 03:39:04 PM · #563 |
Well I must unabashedly admit that I'm not as knowledgable on "religion" as I am with my personal desire to be Christ-like. I seek to see the spiritual person, whatever religion they may be. Religion doesn't mean too much to me personally. I do work at being a follower of my lord and saviour Jesus Christ. Essentially I follow him, not because of my goodness, but in gratitude for all he's done in me and through me. Believe me I have been rediculed, and mocked, and criticized for my belief, and I have NEVER, EVER criticized anyone's religion. Being openly a christian in today's society makes one less than popular.
Many, many Christians are being persecuted and killed around the world, and have been for generations, in the name of religion. Yet, that is barely reported in the worldwide media. I personally know Christians who have been killed, tortured, raped, and persecuted, and discriminated against. Where is the public outcry?
Being a Christian is NOT the same as religion. Many religions, even some of those who call themselves christian don't practice christian principles. Being a christian is a state of heart, not a matter of what church you do or don't go to.
I'd be happy to elaborate on this with anyone who so desires.
Peace and blessings to all!
Grayce
Gracious-
Good points. I have to say that i think religion may be a part of this conflict along with race. When's the last war that that had christian vs christian. Even more interesting, when was the last war the was christian white vs christian white? This is interesting to me because the american gov't seem to have no problem bombing brown people. I have a feeling my point here will get lost or misunderstood...oh well[/quote]
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04/01/2003 05:34:27 PM · #564 |
Originally posted by Gracious:
Many religions, even some of those who call themselves christian don't practice christian principles. Being a christian is a state of heart, not a matter of what church you do or don't go to.
I'd be happy to elaborate on this with anyone who so desires.
Peace and blessings to all!
Grayce |
I agree with you, and only hope that people of all religious persuasions adopt the same creed... |
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04/01/2003 06:25:21 PM · #565 |
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04/01/2003 07:07:13 PM · #566 |
,,The way things are set up in a lot of countries is that they have villages and markets. Greece still has those. Why not iraq too? I
actually think the words "shopping mall" are almost exclusively american...
Right, but to the American audience, these words sound archaic, make the rest of the world sound backwards and make it feel okay to bomb them because they are somehow less valuable than us. I wish the media would emphasize the similarities and common humanity. It's just a semantic point. |
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04/01/2003 07:10:12 PM · #567 |
Originally posted by Gracious:
Being a christian is a state of heart, not a matter of what church you do or don't go to. |
I very much agree. Let us live in peace and due process, not dictators (both bush ans saddam). Bush is acting as a dictator of iraq...he dosen't like it thus he chooses to destroy it.
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04/01/2003 07:12:13 PM · #568 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
,,The way things are set up in a lot of countries is that they have villages and markets. Greece still has those. Why not iraq too? I
actually think the words "shopping mall" are almost exclusively american...
Right, but to the American audience, these words sound archaic, make the rest of the world sound backwards and make it feel okay to bomb them because they are somehow less valuable than us. I wish the media would emphasize the similarities and common humanity. It's just a semantic point. |
I am always shocked that so many people think the entire continent of africa is one big village out of the lion king. It's several counties with a very diverse groups of people. And yet there are major cities with everything we have here in the states.
Message edited by author 2003-04-01 19:12:44.
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04/02/2003 12:53:12 AM · #569 |
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04/02/2003 02:27:13 AM · #570 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
I very much agree. Let us live in peace and due process, not dictators (both bush ans saddam). Bush is acting as a dictator of iraq...he dosen't like it thus he chooses to destroy it. |
Geocide, you equate Bush to Saddam just shows you the twisted values there are in the World. Bush is enforcing a UN resolution for a dictator to disarm and cooperate with the UN who wouldn't. A dictator who has killed his own people, starves them, executes them if they disagree with him, and has ties to terrorism (a new FACT), and all you can do is equate Bush to Saddam. Just tells you how evil liberal-socialist-communist attitude is. Bush and Blair are "betting" their political future on something they believe in, when most politians in the world will just stick their head in the sand, never stand for anything, and never risk anything, and never make a contribution to the world. Status-cuo as usual for you isn't it?
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04/02/2003 03:03:44 AM · #571 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
A dictator who has killed his own people, starves them, executes them... |
Every day there are over 12 million undernourished children in the USA.
Texas executes more people than the rest of the states put together...most of our most important allies have abandoned capital punishment, even refusing to extradite known criminals for trial merely because of that archaic attitude...
And...on a hopefully humorous (and photographic) note:
Protester's "Float"
Message edited by author 2003-04-02 03:04:10. |
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04/02/2003 10:15:19 AM · #572 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by Geocide:
I very much agree. Let us live in peace and due process, not dictators (both bush ans saddam). Bush is acting as a dictator of iraq...he dosen't like it thus he chooses to destroy it. |
Geocide, you equate Bush to Saddam just shows you the twisted values there are in the World. Bush is enforcing a UN resolution for a dictator to disarm and cooperate with the UN who wouldn't. A dictator who has killed his own people, starves them, executes them if they disagree with him, and has ties to terrorism (a new FACT), and all you can do is equate Bush to Saddam. Just tells you how evil liberal-socialist-communist attitude is. Bush and Blair are "betting" their political future on something they believe in, when most politians in the world will just stick their head in the sand, never stand for anything, and never risk anything, and never make a contribution to the world. Status-cuo as usual for you isn't it? |
I am not saying they are the same. If i had to choose a more evil, it would be saddam, of course. But i want to make somthing clear. Several thousand iraqs have been executed by american forces while trying to protect their country wheather they want saddam or not. This is not exactly a kind thing to do and even though bush has no jurisidiction over this land he sent forces in. That is an act of a dictitator.
As far as the UN agreement, you forget due process! The UN has to prove that he has the weapons before they can punish him for it. That's why so many countries feel the way they do, the us has not made a case.
I do not support saddam whatsoever.
Here's somthing i just thought of. It seems that the regeime in iraq isn't that far from what america would be like if the religious right got their way. Forced prayer in schools, very rich dynastys that have the true power in washington, Executions for those who the society says has done wrong, forced codes of ethics, everyone would have rifels and hand guns etc... wow, that's not to diffrent from the "regeime".
I also wonder how well this project will work. The last time the US tried regeime change resulted in the installation of castro in cuba.
Also, imagine if the people of iraq got in control and decided to not to be a democratic society, the US woud never go for that. man, that would be messy.
OK, i'll stop my digressions. I just thing that there;s little diffrence between a man who will force his will on another population oppose to his own.
Message edited by author 2003-04-02 10:16:32.
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04/02/2003 10:18:29 AM · #573 |
Do you think that the US has no ties to terrorism? I don't.
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04/02/2003 10:20:29 AM · #574 |
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Bush and Blair are "betting" their political future on something they believe in, when most politians in the world will just stick their head in the sand, never stand for anything, and never risk anything, and never make a contribution to the world. Status-cuo as usual for you isn't it? |
Stalin, Castro, Hussein and Hitler all "Bet" their political future on ideas they beleived in, does this make them right? No.
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04/02/2003 10:40:32 AM · #575 |
Originally posted by Geocide:
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Bush and Blair are "betting" their political future on something they believe in, when most politians in the world will just stick their head in the sand, never stand for anything, and never risk anything, and never make a contribution to the world. Status-cuo as usual for you isn't it? |
Stalin, Castro, Hussein and Hitler all "Bet" their political future on ideas they beleived in, does this make them right? No. |
you have serious problems
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