PS CS2 image appears different after upload to dpc

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/16/2006 04:05:36 PM · #26

I have this problem since I joined DPC. Changing the color profile doesn't work for me: it allready stands at sRGB.

I've been thinking since I've been here, it was part of the upload-programming or whatsoever from DPC, because I'm sure I manage my photo's the right way.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

04/16/2006 04:46:30 PM · #27

Any SC or Drew or Langdon know if there have been changes in the way an uploaded file is processed?

trnqlty

Nikon D90

04/16/2006 05:45:15 PM · #28

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Any SC or Drew or Langdon know if there have been changes in the way an uploaded file is processed?

Seems like this could be likely because it only became an issue for me in the last 5 or 6 challenges. Although, these days I submit very sporatically so it could have been a while ago.

Node

Nikon D300

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Nikon

04/16/2006 07:55:25 PM · #29

Originally posted by keegbow:

I was reading this earlier and the last post is correct you need to check your that "proof colors" is selected under view and then check "Proof View" is set to Monitor RGB. This willl allow you to see the image as it looks when uploaded.

Thnks to oOWonderbreadOo

I have been through that and its the same :) Its very frustrating.

I have a LCD screen with both Analog and Digital display as I was playing with the settings somehow I ended up with an analog screen with the task bar and nothing else would open ON screen (Opening offscreen) and my Digital had no task bar at all so I couldn't work through either. Arrrggggg

Node

Nikon D300

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Nikon

04/16/2006 08:15:10 PM · #30

After resetting the display controls to software (nVidia) and re-calibration of the screen etc the problem appears to be fixed.

I am now printing out to test the screen - printer consistency.

I have always avoided sortware control as I have prefered to go with hardware controls but now it looks like I don't have a choice.

front_element

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/16/2006 08:33:10 PM · #31

Soft proofing in CS2 can show this issue on screen. It allows for saturation adjustments to compensate for the differeces on DPC.

I soft proof as 'monitor RGB' and adjust to that.

lenox114

Nikon D200

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

04/16/2006 08:33:31 PM · #32

I haven't had a problem with cs2 after reading the tutorial.

"Using Photoshop to Prepare Photos for DPC Challenges"
by EddyG

Node

Nikon D300

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Nikon

04/16/2006 08:41:25 PM · #33

The effect was 2 fold...

Firstly when editing my photo's I was not editing to what everyone else would see.

Secondly I was not seeing onscreen what the other photogs wanted me to see while I was voting. And that's not fair to them :(

Everything appears to be Ok now... Thanks everyone for your help.

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

04/16/2006 10:45:57 PM · #34

Originally posted by keegbow:

I was reading this earlier and the last post is correct you need to check your that "proof colors" is selected under view and then check "Proof View" is set to Monitor RGB. This will allow you to see the image as it looks when uploaded.

Thnks to oOWonderbreadOo

Like failing to output your web graphic as sRGB, this is another way that causes a screen display in Photoshop to mismatch what gets uploaded to the web.

Here is my little twist on the suggestion to set "proof colors" to "Monitor RGB" in CS2. It doesn't always work.

When I change "View->Proof Setup->Monitor RGB" on my post-processed file I actually lose colors in my Photoshop view now compared to what gets uploaded to DPC. I get more colors when uploaded, not less. Why should that be?

To understand that some things need to be explained...

First off, you do all your post processing in one "working" color space. Photoshop gurus will tell you to use "Adobe RGB (1998)" as your working color space because it is color rich and ultimately produces better output files.

Next, the purpose of "Proof Setup" selections is to generate a simulated display WITHIN Photoshop that will match what you see on your monitor display with whatever output device you are directing your image to. In our case we are talking about the web, but it could be for printing to a specific printer and paper, or for CMYK output or for a different monitor display, etc. Each output device will display a little different.

The important thing to understand about "proof setup" is that it is an adjustment to the screen display WITHIN Photoshop to simulate an output device. While post processing you want "proof setup" to match your working color space. It is usually changed AFTER post processing is finished and you want to see what the output will look like on a specific output device, then you can make final color adjustments before saving the output file.

Now... on to the problem at hand...

In CS2 if you select "Monitor RGB" in proof setup then the "Preserve RGB Numbers" box remains unchecked. The reason for that is you are telling Photoshop that you want to see it in the native monitor display mode without any modification and for no other purpose. You have to check the "Preserve RGB Numbers" box manually if you want it for any other purpose other than display on your own computer. But if you frequently change "proof setup" for printing then this becomes problematic because each time you reset it to "Monitor RGB" after printing you have to remember to check that box.

What is a little easier to do and makes perfectly good sense is to set your "proof setup" to match your working color space with "View->Proof Setup->Custom->Adobe RGB (1998)" or to whatever your current working color space is. Now what you see on the screen are the colors you actually want to use for post processing work. That selection assumes your monitor profile with the "Preserve RGB Numbers" box checked, which is exactly what you need for post processing.

Now, when you want to output for the web, all you need to do is convert the output file directly from your working color space to sRGB and it should match up.

Conclusion: Set "proof colors" to your working color space, not "Monitor RGB".

oOWonderBreadOo

Canon EOS-5D

04/16/2006 11:44:19 PM · #35

I still do monitor RGB (for DPC only) the color change happened when I switched to CS2. I realized that proof colors was not checked (ctrl+Y)
good luck...

04/17/2006 05:16:59 PM · #36

The more you look into the issue where images uploaded to DPC appear different from the way they do in CS2, the deeper it becomes.

This is because of three main reasons:
1-Monitor Calibration
2-Color Spaces and conversion to sRGB
3-Internal Photoshop generated displays and actual output

This is painfully evident when reviewing the Color Portrait images. There is nothing like skin tones to bring out problems.

1-Monitor Calibration
This is the root of all evil. Improperly calibrated monitors will skew everything. This is not so much for the photographer on their own computer, but for everyone else viewing their work. It rears its ugly head with skin tones more than just about anywhere else.

2-Color Spaces and conversion to sRGB
DPC can only display sRGB colors. If you work in a different color space from that in PS and fail to convert your colors to sRGB before saving your web graphic then it will appear muted when uploaded because of lost colors.

3-Internal Photoshop generated displays and actual output
Photoshop adjusted displays can easily be different from what you actually save in an output file. This is the trickiest issue.

This normally isn't as big a deal as conversion to sRGB, but it is an issue. Photoshop is 'smart'. It wants to display things 'right' and it will make internal software adjustments to make the image display 'correctly' on your screen. That is where 'proof colors', color spaces and things like that enter into play. Those can cause the PS display to differ from the web.

PS has a truckload of settings that give the photographer incredible flexibility in adjusting the screen display as well as the output file appearance. Unfortunately that also requires knowledge and understanding and therein lies the rub. It exceeds our ability to understand it! :)

Among the settings that affect these things are: "Edit->Color Settings"(your working color space and color management policies),"Edit->Convert to Profile"(output color space, dithering, black point compensation, and Intent either Perceptual or Relative Colormetric), "View->Proof Colors" either on or off, "View->Proof Setup->Custom"(Device to simulate, Preserve or not preserve RGB numbers, Rendering Intent either Relative Colormetric or Perceptual, and Black point componsation), and whether you optimize output or not in "File->Save as".

If the PS settings for internal display are inconsistant with the output then what gets uploaded to the web will not look like what you see. For example, you might have an internal display Rendering Intent of 'Relative Colormetric' but an output Intent of 'Perceptual'. That will produce differences.

Finally, the keys to correct web displays are:
1-Make sure your monitor is properly calibrated.
2-Always convert web output to sRGB color space
3-Insure that, when used, that "View->Proof Setup->Custom" settings are consistant with "Edit->Convert to Profile" settings and, if used, don't optimize in "File->Save as" settings.

And after all that there still will be slight differences and inconsistancies. ;) LOL!

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

04/17/2006 05:33:32 PM · #37

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

You want to use "assign profile", not "convert to profile"; the one is an overlay, as it were, the other makes a permanent change. If you convert from a larger color space to a smaller one, there's no way to move back up the scale accurately. And you may use different color profiles for different uses of the image in the future.

R.

FWIW, this is totally the wrong advice.

You want to 'convert to profile' to sRGB in this case.

Assign profile will screw up any file that was already in a particular colour profile, as it assigns values directly, with no attempt to map the image in to the new colour space.

Actually, the original problem being described is caused by saving an image in a profile that isn't sRGB, then viewing it in a non-profile aware viewer (like a web browser) that does an automatic 'assign to sRGB' step effectively. 'Assign profile' will cause the same problem, just earlier in the process.

If you work in whatever colourspace you like, then 'convert to profile' targetting sRGB, you'll see the same image in photoshop and in your web browser.

Using 'Assign profile' in the way described will kinda work, but only because you initially trash the profile then 'fix' it with further adjustments. The 'assign profile' option is only usefully used when you load an image that has lost or never had a profile, somewhere along the way, and you know what the correct profile should be. (E.g., it was a ProPhotoRGB image but you saved it without an attached profile)

If the image comes out of a digital camera, it'll most likely have a profile attached and from there, you want to convert to whatever profiles you want to use so that the original and new colour spaces are mapped to keep as much consistancy as possible.

Message edited by author 2006-04-17 17:36:00.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

04/17/2006 05:39:15 PM · #38

Steve I have tried to follow your advice but get confused when you mention "Edit->Convert to Profile". In edit I go to color settings which is set to custom, working spaces - RGB: Adobe RGB (1998) and the Color Management policies is RGB: Convert to Working RGB.

where do a find Convert to profile ?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

04/17/2006 05:49:57 PM · #39

Originally posted by keegbow:

I'm guessing you are not using CS2, are you? In PS7, the only other Photoshop I got, it is hidden under:
"Image->Mode->Convert to Profile"

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

04/17/2006 05:53:51 PM · #40

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by keegbow:
Steve I have tried to follow your advice but get confused when you mention "Edit->Convert to Profile". In edit I go to color settings which is set to custom, working spaces - RGB: Adobe RGB (1998) and the Color Management policies is RGB: Convert to Working RGB.

where do a find Convert to profile ?

I'm guessing you are not using CS2, are you? In PS7, the only other Photoshop I got, it is hidden under:
"Image->Mode->Convert to Profile"

Yes CS2, I have found it under mode and your a genius all fixed now thank you very much :)

fotodude

Nikon D70

04/17/2006 06:02:43 PM · #41

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Make sure you have assigned the sRGB color profile to your image. You can do this in "image/mode/assign profile". If you are working in a "larger" color profile like Adobe RGB, you can lose a lot when you view the image on the web.

R.

its not sRGB but that comes close in CS there is a setting for Generic RGB Profile...that hits it right on.

i have messed with this many times and it is best to edit for you how ever you want and edit for the web in a seperate copy using generic (if generic isn't an option don't color manage it at all)

i talked with manic awhile back and he didn't even know the profile of DPC. but yeah after trying them all and viewing them in comp. to the unadjusted (profile) image uploaded in to the challenge priview page generic was an exact match to the naked eye.

yes i had to much time on my hands and yes you will need to up the colors using slective color and hue&sat. and you may need to bring up the contrast using B&C if you didn't edit it all along in generic. *(oh lol you only have to toy with color edits is you go assign not convert as one should)

so yeah...

it was for my Best of 2005 image that i frist used it and it has been working ever since most recently was my 2sec. exposure. color matched to the origional after edit which was saved as a tiff. so the color in that is almost a direct copy of the colors viewed in the tiff image....

_bran(way way to much time on hands- generic)do_

*edit

Message edited by author 2006-04-17 18:11:47.

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

04/17/2006 06:25:53 PM · #42

Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
I'm guessing you are not using CS2, are you? In PS7, the only other Photoshop I got, it is hidden under:
"Image->Mode->Convert to Profile"

Yes CS2, I have found it under mode and your a genius all fixed now thank you very much :)

Are you saying you do have CS2? If so and you find it under "Edit->Mode->Convert to Profile" then someone must have moved it.

I know you have the ability to configure menus but I did not think you could move menu items from one place to another. I remember after upgrading to CS2 from PS7 I was ticked because they moved "Convert to Profile" and I had trouble finding it and I use it all the time. :)

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

04/17/2006 06:30:19 PM · #43

Sorry for the confusion not CS2 just CS.

LevT

OM System OM-1

04/17/2006 06:43:36 PM · #44

I am still a bit confused (or maybe even more than before :)) - the consensus seems that we should edit files in Photoshop in Adobe RGB, and at the end convert it to sRGB for web. Where does calibrated monitor profile come in here? I calibrated my monitor, which created a color profile which I called, let's say, Viewsonic.icc, put it in the profiles sub-directory in Photoshop, and I use that as my default working colorspace. Am I wrong? How should I use this calibraiton-derived Viewsonic.icc then?

Now since my default working space is Viewsonic.icc, when I import the file in photoshop, it asks me whether I want to convert to the working profile, leave the existing one (presumably, sRGB), or discard it. I usually select "convert". What should I do?

Message edited by author 2006-04-17 19:22:06.

LevT

OM System OM-1

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

04/17/2006 07:20:58 PM · #45

bump

fotomann_forever

04/17/2006 07:29:13 PM · #46

Originally posted by biteme:

All web color rendering is sRGB and the colors are rendered by the browser, not the site.

Unless D&L wrote huge CGI scripts to purposesly shift colors of the photos or perhaps wrote some ImageMajik scripts... there is nothing that can be coded into PHP to shift colors.

Thus, I seriously doubt anything DPC specific is happening here.

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

04/17/2006 07:30:30 PM · #47

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Thus, I seriously doubt anything DPC specific is happening here.

It's a cover up! :P

fotomann_forever

04/17/2006 07:35:33 PM · #48

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Thus, I seriously doubt anything DPC specific is happening here.

It's a cover up! :P

Meee, involved in a cover-up? Haven't your realized I have difficulty with covering things up?