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03/26/2006 07:34:54 PM · #26 |
No, you don't have this right. Thats not what he said at all.
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03/26/2006 07:36:03 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Flash:
From world events, it is clear to me that certain muslims are willing to die for thier beliefs. This christian is willing to die for his. I wonder how many other christians throughout the world are willing to make the same sacrifice as the 1st century christians in Rome. |
I'm less worried about those willing to die for their beliefs than those willing to kill for them.
Originally posted by Bear Music:
Have I got this right? You're volunteering to wear a bomb suit and head into a Muslim stronghold to take out as many of the heathens as you possibly can? |
No, I don't think you've got this right. |
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03/26/2006 07:53:12 PM · #28 |
...
Message edited by author 2006-03-26 19:59:23. |
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03/27/2006 08:34:38 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Have I got this right? You're volunteering to wear a bomb suit and head into a Muslim stronghold to take out as many of the heathens as you possibly can? Is this what Jesus had in mind?
R. |
Robert,
I have followed many of your posts and generally concluded your comments were well thought out. I am confused as to how you drew the above conclusions. This thread was generated regarding an Afganistani who was a convert from Islam to Christianity. He was charged (by family), arrested, imprisoned, and his death was called for by "moderate" clerics of the Islamic faith. Still he, maintained his conviction in his christian belief and was reported to have maintained that he would die (as the 1st century christian martyrs did in Rome) rather than abandon his belief.
This I felt was an admirable character traight. It had nothing to do with an active jihadists action, but much more akin to the way in which Daniel entered the Lion's den. This man's imprisonment in the midst of staunch Taliban and Al Queda prisoners, was an accurate enough analogy to Lions; for me.
Flash
Message edited by author 2006-03-27 09:16:18.
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03/27/2006 09:14:32 AM · #30 |
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03/27/2006 02:05:02 PM · #31 |
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03/27/2006 02:30:14 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Flash:
From world events, it is clear to me that certain muslims are willing to die for thier beliefs. This christian is willing to die for his. I wonder how many other christians throughout the world are willing to make the same sacrifice as the 1st century christians in Rome.
It certainly gives a measured meaning to the phrase;
"And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple." I believe this Afganistani certainly qualifies as a desciple. Mentally challenged or not. His belief is worth noting.
Flash (kind of reminds me of the story of Daniel and the Lion's den) |
Have I got this right? You're volunteering to wear a bomb suit and head into a Muslim stronghold to take out as many of the heathens as you possibly can? Is this what Jesus had in mind?
R. |
My apologies. I didn't read the original post as carefully as I should have. I equated the world-events-noted "Muslims dying for their beliefs" with suicide bombers, and conflated "this Christian is willing to die for his" into that context, when actually Flash was trying to put the "Christian deaths" in the Biblical context.
The original post was a little fuzzy, Flash, but I can see now that this is not what you meant.
Sorry.
Robt.
Message edited by author 2006-03-27 14:31:06.
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03/27/2006 02:58:27 PM · #33 |
Any particular reason for promoting the writings Harun Yahya (likely a pseudonym) and, by extension, the Turkish organization called the Science Research Foundation (or Bilim Arastirma Vakfi, or BAV) in a thread about the plight of one particular Christian in Afgahnistan?
For more information on Harun Yahya and the BAV, read this:
Originally posted by National Center of Science Education:
BAV (Science Research Foundation) and its Activities
BAV is a radical fundamentalist foundation established in 1991 by Sheikh Adnan Oktar. It is an integral part of the rise of fundamentalist Islam in Turkey. BAV is not an independent organization and the source(s) of its funding remain very obscure. Its activities and publications utilize millions of dollars each year, so it is difficult to imagine that this amount of funding can be supplied just by donations, as some at BAV claim. The newspaper Hurriyet recently revealed that Adnan Oktar and BAV have strong connections with Necmettin Erbakan, the former leader of various fundamentalist parties. The newspaper Cumhuriyet recently reported that other support for BAV comes from Fettullahcilar - a tariqa established by Fettullah Gulen, who used to preach the evil and wickedness of evolution (Cumhuriyet, June 29, 1999).
BAV has also published several books under the pen name Harun Yahya and has delivered copies to the public free of charge. It is generally believed that Harun Yahya is actually a commission formed by BAV, although recent reports have claimed that Harun Yahya is Necmettin Erbakan or a collaboration between Erbakan and Adnan Oktar (Hurriyet, September 13-15, 1999).
However, considering the vast range of subjects and the sheer number of books - from The Qur'an-Islam, Free Masonry and Anti-Semitism to Evolution and Molecular Biology - it is unlikely that Harun Yahya is a single person. Both BAV and Harun Yahya are still poorly understood. No one claiming to be Harun Yahya has made any public appearances or has granted any interviews. |
ETA: After a very little more research, Wikipedia claims that Sheikh Adnan Oktar is Harun Yahya.
Message edited by author 2006-03-27 15:12:40. |
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03/27/2006 03:19:30 PM · #34 |
Any particular reason for promoting the writings Harun Yahya (likely a pseudonym) and, by extension, the Turkish organization called the Science Research Foundation (or Bilim Arastirma Vakfi, or BAV) in a thread about the plight of one particular Christian in Afgahnistan?
No particular reason at all. Had no idea as to the origin or even the accuracy of the writings. In searching the subject in an attempt to comprehend the role of Jesus in both Judiasm and Islam, I came upon this. I found the positions of Jesus and in particular the writings about his second coming noted in the Koran as surprising and new to me. Realizing that this (dpc)community has some pretty savy researchists, I thought I would post it here, due to the apparent contradiction between a muslim convert to christianity and his potential death due to his "belief" in the saviour Jesus, when according to this writing, Jesus is part of Islamic teachings. Of course, if this author was bogus, I was confident that someone (like you) would raise the question.
The post on the BAV was informative.
Flash
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03/27/2006 03:36:58 PM · #35 |
Well, I remembered reading about the BAV before and I originally was thinking of Turkish writer Mustafa Akyol when I read the name Hayun Yahya. Mustafa Akyol, a young-earth creationist and spokesperson for the BAV, was a witness for the Intelligent Design-supported "minority report" of the "Kansas Kangaroo Court" back in early 2005. I enjoy reading about science, so I tend to follow the evolution/creation debate fairly closely.
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03/28/2006 11:10:56 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
I enjoy reading about science, so I tend to follow the evolution/creation debate fairly closely. |
Let me be the first to congratulate you on the birth of your brand-spanking-new non sequitur.
Message edited by author 2006-03-28 11:11:25. |
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03/28/2006 11:25:37 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
I enjoy reading about science, so I tend to follow the evolution/creation debate fairly closely. |
Certainly much closer than I. Having read your links, it is apparent that much underlying baggage was associated with my link to the 3 religions and Jesus. I assure you it was purely coincendental. I actually have little interest in whether we evloved or whether we were created. In either case; for me, created still applies. Whether I came to be via God's designed evolution or through his instant messaging service, either way I'm here and I feel strongly in a Higher Deity Power, I call God (aka Yahweh).
That said, your links were quite informative. My personal interest is still peaked as the role Jesus plays in Judiasm and Islam. IF Jesus is in fact the son of God, and IF salvation is only attainable through belief in the "Lamb", then how do others receive salvation if they do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Then again, IF the above is not true, then it would make sense to learn what is.
Flash
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03/28/2006 11:45:10 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Let me be the first to congratulate you on the birth of your brand-spanking-new non sequitur. |
I was relating to Flash where I had first encountered the BAV almost one year ago. It is deeply associated with Hayun Yahya to whom Flash linked and, before some brief research, I originally thought that Hayun Yahya may be the Mustafa Akyol whom I referenced. My familiarity with the BAV bares a direct connection to my reading in the evolution/creationism debate. So, while I'm flattered by your attempt to emulate me, it wasn't a non sequitur. |
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03/28/2006 11:53:40 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Let me be the first to congratulate you on the birth of your brand-spanking-new non sequitur. |
So, while I'm flattered by your attempt to emulate me, it wasn't a non sequitur. |
You need to read more closely. You stated you enjoyed reading about science. You then ran on to say you enjoyed the evolution/creationism debate.
The first does not lead to the second in any sensible way. Science is not a part of the evolution/creationism debate. Unless you want to include political science under that banner. Politics and religion yes, science, not so much. |
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03/28/2006 12:13:31 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
You need to read more closely. You stated you enjoyed reading about science. You then ran on to say you enjoyed the evolution/creationism debate.
The first does not lead to the second in any sensible way. Science is not a part of the evolution/creationism debate. Unless you want to include political science under that banner. Politics and religion yes, science, not so much. |
At the risk of really, really derailing this thread, I also read about physics and astronomy but they do not bear a direct relationship to how I know about the BAV. The science behind the Theory of Evolution, the political/social movement known as Intelligent Design and the “minority report” trial hosted by the Kansas Board of Education do bear a direct relationship to how I know about the BAV. If you want to debate whether evolution is a valid scientific theory, this is not the thread to do so.
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03/29/2006 10:33:15 AM · #41 |
convert leaves afganistan
Let us hope (pray) for his safe keeping.
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03/31/2006 10:38:08 AM · #42 |
this was a custody fight
1st time I have read where this originated as a custody fight over the children. I struggled with why arrest after 16 years of being a Christian. The last paragraph explains much.
Rahman's ordeal began as a custody battle for his two daughters, now 13 and 14. The girls lived with their grandparents, but Rahman sought custody when he returned to Afghanistan in 2002 after living in Germany for nine years. The matter was later taken to police, and during questioning, it emerged that Rahman was a Christian and was carrying a Bible. He was immediately arrested and charged.
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03/31/2006 12:08:13 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
Examples such as this is why I'm such a huge fan of the First Amendment.
Originally posted by The First Amendment to the U.S. Consitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. |
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Examples such as this is why we have a Second Amendment.
-Rick |
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03/31/2006 01:25:40 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Flash:
More evidence (in my opinion) of an upcoming world rift between religions. This is a stark contrast to our (western) freedom of choice perspcetives.
christian arrest
gives a bit of meaning to...."and brother will turn against brother, father against son and daughter against mother"....
This is the world we are a part of. A world where state law can authorize death for a belief. We'll see how this trial ends up. |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
Examples such as this is why we have a Second Amendment.
-Rick |
Originally posted by Amendment I & II to the U.S. Constitution:
I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. |
What in the given case requires the Second Amendment that isn’t resolved by the First Amendment?
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03/31/2006 02:51:54 PM · #45 |
The ability to stop tyrants stomping on the First.
-Rick |
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03/31/2006 03:06:30 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
The ability to stop tyrants stomping on the First.
-Rick |
So it's not the freedoms granted by the First Amendment with which your dealing, but rather your ability to defend those freedoms. In other words, you've added an assumption about the First in order to invoke the Second. |
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