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03/06/2006 07:49:26 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
With all that removed, I like it because... You can really capture some moments. The moments always been there, but it takes a box and some film and the right circumstances and you can see it again and again from now till the second coming.
-CN |
Seems to me you answered your own question. |
I must have missed it... :-?
-CN |
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03/06/2006 07:50:47 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
With my new camera, it does make things easier; but it also makes me realize how much game I don't have. I am approaching 800 photographs in less than a month of ownership and I only have 6 photographs that I like. (Never mind that others don't)
CN |
800 in a month? Hrm.. does that mean my 250 in 2 days with my new camera is overkill?
Others here have given some great suggestions... try macros, or indoor setups if you don't like the city. I find I have more control that way, and I can take a bunch of shots, and check them on the computer to see how they look. If I don't like the lighting or composition, I can go right back and fix it and have another try.
Really, it's a lot of trial and error. I play with all kinds of functions, buttons, doo-dads, thing-a-ma-jigs, and hoosiwhatsits on the camera and in Photoshop and I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing. But I'm learning from the whole process. Try just picking up the camera manual and start reading... try taking shots with different settings it suggests and see how things differ. Lots of experimenting is good with digital cameras. If you don't like the shot, hit delete and you're ready to move on.
Enter some challenges! You'll get feedback on your shots, both good and bad. Don't take the criticism personally, but really reflect on the shot you entered and look at how it could have improved. And besides entering challenges, vote and leave comments. Having to look at so many shots with a critical eye helps you to figure out what works and what doesn't work in a shot. That's one step towards taking more good shots.
Good luck! :)
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03/06/2006 07:52:45 PM · #28 |
Yep, you suck. As soon as you get over that then there is no pressure to 'be better' or compete with other people and you can start learning at your own pace. We all sucked at one point or another, it's just some give up instead of sticking with it a little longer.
I see you've already started imitating some photography you like, this is a good way to learn. Perhaps there's a local photography group you can join that will inspire you to get out practising. Good luck :-) |
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03/06/2006 07:54:36 PM · #29 |
I am a horrible raquetball player. I would say I'm at best mediocre guitarist and a mediocre runner. But I still play raquetball and guitar and run whenever I can because I have fun doing it. Photography is no different. I haven't won any ribbons, but I love it. If you love it too then you're already the photohgrapher that you need to be.
Just make sure you don't quit your day job. That's why I'm going to be a dentist, not a professional photographer (or raquetball player, or runner, or musician for that matter).
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03/06/2006 07:59:03 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
With all that removed, I like it because... You can really capture some moments. The moments always been there, but it takes a box and some film and the right circumstances and you can see it again and again from now till the second coming.
-CN |
Seems to me you answered your own question. |
I must have missed it... :-?
-CN |
I guess I took your post as a kind of a philosophical, âwhy me?â âShould I just stop?â âWhy do I do it?â post and the last line of you post,
âThe moments always been there, but it takes a box and some film and the right circumstances and you can see it again and again from now till the second coming.â
was poetic and seemed a good answer to those questions.
Even if you didnât ask it that way.
Ths Wazzzz
Message edited by author 2006-03-06 19:59:48. |
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03/06/2006 08:00:03 PM · #31 |
I find I like 20% of the shots I take, and actually print and hang about 2%. The rest of the shots taken are just me just trying to get the vision captured.
One thing that has made a huge difference lately is the Photo-A-Day project that a bunch of DPC'ers started in 2006. My kept-to-thrown ratio has increased dramatically with daily practice.
One thing you might try is focusing your efforts on just one skill until it is mastered, ie. noticing light, using DOF, understanding exposure, etc. Once the basic camera functions are second nature, I predict your creativity will soar.
Good luck! |
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03/06/2006 08:03:23 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
Originally posted by Melethia:
This is a great thread. And I needed it, too. Thanks, all! :-) |
You've certainly got some great works in your portfolio!
-CN |
Thank you most kindly!! And the advice you're getting in this thread is priceless... :-) |
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03/06/2006 08:05:43 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
I
"if I only had this lens, or I knew how to 'Photoshop' I could really 'shine'."
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There has been alot of good advice in this thread....I have previously sought the same advice. I learned really fast that what I thought was good wasn't. But I still love it.
I have entered 3 challenges. With each one my score gets better. Not great, but better. And on all 3 I did NO post processing. And many of my comments were based on that... so I need to learn this Photo Elements stuff. Irregardless I am happy with a 5.062 on my 3rd try. (I figure 5 is average)
And I am doing what you are....trying to duplicate what others have done and what a learning experience that is.
Last weekend I spent 'playing' with painting with light. Nothing that could remotely resemble an entry level photo..but you know what ...I learned something! I'll be ready next time.
Jump in and stop beating yourself up.....let others do it for you!!! :-P
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03/06/2006 08:06:10 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Joey Lawrence:
Yep, you suck. As soon as you get over that then there is no pressure to 'be better' or compete with other people and you can start learning at your own pace. We all sucked at one point or another, it's just some give up instead of sticking with it a little longer.
I see you've already started imitating some photography you like, this is a good way to learn. Perhaps there's a local photography group you can join that will inspire you to get out practising. Good luck :-) |
Oh I know I suck, got over that one yyyeeeeaaarrrsss ago.. Just now, I know there must be a better way to create a vacuum.
Local Club? Yeah there's one and I want to go to it. But I've been down this road before in this area. Hard to explain but it's like this area is devoid of commitment. A store will sell you a camera, but nothing else. (it's true) The interest on supporting such endevours drop off like a cliff.
As far as retailers, I wanted to buy a 50 1.8 Mark II lens. Cheap ole lens but a nice prime. Couldn't do it within 30 miles of my home (Akron area), at least not from a camera shop (Ritz, Cord) All they had were 'kit lenses'. I ended up going to an eBay electronics store, located in a mall here. I found them on eBay and noticed their locale. Rediculous.
As far as my city being devoid of subject matter, it's really not I'm sure. (I can name 30 national parks and landmarks within 30 miles) But it's the idea of not seeing it.
As a matter of fact, I went to a Blue Heron nesting area at the local sewage plant; I shot HUNDREDS of photographs of these gorgeous birds, not a SINGLE one was worth the digital media they are ethered on. My own darn fault, but sheesh...
-CN |
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03/06/2006 08:09:55 PM · #35 |
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03/06/2006 08:16:28 PM · #36 |
Before it leaves my mind, thanks everyone! Many posters in this thread has pointed out that all of it is great advice, and it is.
I love the atmosphere in the thread and I think it promotes the 'not so technical' aspect of the answers. (I wasn't looking for an 'f/8 and wait for 3 minutes past the hour of sunset on a partly cloudy day' and no one has posted a 'step1, step2, step3'... )
As far as 'Photoshopping' is concerned, I was of the mind of a purist, that it was 'only' to be used in the same manner as a wet darkroom. I am still a believer in that, but when I see some works that have obviously been Photoshop'd, I think man the ends really justify the means. I ping pong back and forth about that.
-CN
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03/06/2006 08:17:40 PM · #37 |
| I always feel that I should stay out of the pool, and I am beginning to seriously consider breaking my camera so I can no longer be tempted to take pictures, but then there is that little issue of how much I have already invested in it. I am a Yankee through and through, which means if it ain't broke, don't fix it and don't break it just because, either. So anyway, I have concluded that as long as I get people I know to want me to take pictures of their events, family gatherings, and even a little bit of commercial work, then just because I can't break high scores here is no reason to give up. There are successes beyond DP Challenge, and the key is that I feel invincible with a camera in my hand. It is a love that goes way deep, always has since my first exploration into a broken camera of my dads when I was the tender age of 3. When I have a camera around my neck, people give me quite a bit of respect. Apparently I give off the aura that I know what I am doing, even if I really don't. So I will never be separated from a camera, even if it is just a disposable on a wedding table. I think you pretty much have been convinced to stay with it. There is no magic of when you suddenly feel like a photographer. It just seems to happen when you aren't looking. |
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03/06/2006 08:20:54 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I guess I took your post as a kind of a philosophical, âwhy me?â âShould I just stop?â âWhy do I do it?â post and the last line of you post,
âThe moments always been there, but it takes a box and some film and the right circumstances and you can see it again and again from now till the second coming.â
was poetic and seemed a good answer to those questions.
Even if you didnât ask it that way.
Ths Wazzzz |
OIC. Was really asking, 'what am I missing.' I know for a fact, that I am missing some sort of epiphany. If you are logically oriented you might be able reflect on your own experiences for reference.
Eg. When I was in school to become a programmer, I had a tough time until that moment when it 'clicked' and the subjects became crystal clear. Or math, at one point it comes together and the rest because understandable.
-CN |
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03/06/2006 08:26:04 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Write poems ! |
LOL... For q As Integer = 0 To DataSet.Tables(0).DefaultView.Count - 1
Think I've got a future? ;)
-CN |
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03/06/2006 08:31:09 PM · #40 |
I took me a good 1000 shots just to come to terms with operating my camera properly. I'm only at 3000 now, but I've kept on learning.
Now stop trolling for encouragement; you've had enough.
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03/06/2006 08:58:08 PM · #41 |
| Oh man, I must REALLY suck. I have rolled mine (from pics 1000 to 9999) 3 time since last August. roughtly 21,000 pics I've looked at at maybe 100 are "Not too bad". I hardly ever go out for shots just what is around the house and in the yard. Not uncommon for me to just keep taking the same one over and over. Yup, pure technical programmer here too. Even if they don't win anything or I'm never famous, The feeling of that shutter opening and closing on a frozen moment is worth it. ....OOPS, poetic moment! |
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03/06/2006 09:00:22 PM · #42 |
| people who can't swim can always dip in the pool, so I dont see any reasons to stay out |
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03/06/2006 09:09:01 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
If you are logically oriented you might be able reflect on your own experiences for reference.
-CN |
The most logic I can muster is "Because it makes me feel good".
Other than that I learn. |
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03/06/2006 09:49:59 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
A store will sell you a camera, but nothing else. (it's true) The interest on supporting such endevours drop off like a cliff.
-CN |
I just got my camera from Ritz... it comes with classes, which I was told by someone else who took them were very helpful. Apparently they have classes for specific cameras, classes on topics like composition, lighting, etc. They were about an hour long each session and are held in an unused space at the local mall where the store is located. They also had a few classes meet at places like the local nature preserve. I have a little coupon book which gets me into 18 of these classes (or I can bring a friend and they can use one of my tickets). Don't know if other areas offer anything like this or not, but it might be worth checking into? |
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03/06/2006 09:55:51 PM · #45 |
I had no preconceived notion of what (technical) photography was when I got my first digital (I did try film in the old day with a Minolta X7A but sucked really bad and gave up).
Sometimes we study others peoples work too hard and expect too much from our own early works. Sheesh works like there is some method to the madness like what I do.
Here's a thought, Don't shoot for yourself and don't shoot for others (especially DPC), Just go out and shoot. Everything. The next time you go out and look through your view finder and think to yourself "Naw, I'm not going to take that shot" take it anyways because a 100 people before you probably said the same thing. You'd be suprised what you will find when you get back.
I can honestly say that I don't shoot for myself and don't become emotionally attached to my shots. Is that good, bad or otherwise...I don't know, I like some of the stuff I shoot... but you also won't see a whine tread from me here stating "this is one of my favorite shots, why don't you guys like it"?
Some of my stuff I don't understand, others do but I don't. I think that is neat.
Just shoot man, shoot everything. However, the next time you see that little house on the Prarie don't shot it standing upright like a thousand people before you. Get a knee, lay on the ground, move around and catch it as no one has caught it before.
Stuff from a long time ago...and I haven't got any better.
Way back when I got my first PS S50
I saw the moon with an antenna pointed at it... Others saw it as an Industrial Minimalist shot worthy of an Editor Choice and POD...Huh.
I seen a spilled cup of coffee...others seen it as grave circumstance
I seen a tub full of ducks other saw it as the Corporate Workforce
Just Shoot...
Man, I think I need to take a nap after all that...
ED: Typo
Message edited by author 2006-03-06 22:01:46.
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03/06/2006 10:30:57 PM · #46 |
as far as learning photoshop is concerned try lynda.com it's inexpensive ($20 a month) and you can learn everything you "have to know " in a few Saturday afternoons and then teach yourself the rest as you develop your photography....no pun intended...must have crept into my head earlier in the thread...but I digresss.... Once you get the basics down and learn the interface everything else comes pretty quickly..... promise.
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03/06/2006 10:56:17 PM · #47 |
OK... I haven't read all the other posts in the thread, but here's my 2 cents worth. You're gonna get a deal cause I gotta lot to say...
First off, from what I have read, you do love photography. If that is truly the case, it would be a real shame for you to give it up. My question to you (and I ask cause it isn't apparent from your port) is: What else do you love? I have a few other passions besides photography... Food, Music, Architecture are among them. If you look at my profile page and look at my top five scoring shots, one of them is food, one of them is music, two of them are architecture. Why is this? Because the love of photography combined with my other passions transcends... Figure out what your other passions are and go shoot them, shoot them, shoot them!
Second off, from your OP it sounds to me like you are trying too hard. Throw away the notebooks. Just go and shoot. If you don't have something in mind to shoot, just go drive! Some of my best shots were of scenes that I have found just driving around. If you see something that you have even the slightest interest in shooting, shoot it. I can't remember who said it but it went something like this... If you have even the remotest interest in shooting something, shoot it. It will never be the same!
Thirdly, you have a kinda complicated camera. So make it simpler. You have a 50mm F/1.8 lens. Put it on your camera. Set your camera to AV. Set the aperture to f/8. LEAVE IT THAT WAY FOR A MONTH AND SHOOT SOMETHING EVERY DAY! What will this do for you? It will make you forget the camera and focus (pun intended) on the image! KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID! But whatever you do, shoot, shoot, shoot! You should soon see your images improving. Once you see that, you can start playing around with the settings.
Fourthly, (is fourthly a word?) you haven't entered any challenges here... DPC is the greatest learning tool for photography there is. Yeah some of the challenge themes are corny. But ya know what? They will take you outside your comfort zone and make you learn. Make it a job! Enter every challenge you can for a month! Not only will you be taking shots, you will be (hopefully) be getting feedback. Very few shots that I have entered into challenges have gotten no comments. Most get a few, some get many. But the important thing is, you will be getting feedback... I also notice that you have not made many comments on others shots. One of the best things I ever did was join the Critique Club. Did I know anything about photography when I joined it? Maybe a little but not as much as I know now. How did I learn? I looked at other peoples shots, figured out what I liked about them and what I didn't like. I put that into words and before long I was thinking in the terms that I was using in my critiques! If you join the C/C you will pull shots that you think are too good for critiques. Critique them anyways. You will pull shots that you can't find anything nice to say about. Critique them anyways. You will find something nice to say if you look at the shot long enough and the negative feedback that you give will help both yourself and the photographer that you are critiqueing...
Lastly... You say you don't know how to do post processing. Use the forums. If you post a shot here with a thread titled "Photoshop guru's help" you will get help! Post a thumb to a shot that you would like to improve. Say what you want to accomplish with the shot in P/P. You will get more help than you will know how to handle at first. Every person that works on a shot in PS will do it differently and everyone that I have met here will share their techniques! It will be a bit overwhelming at first, but the more you learn the easier it is to learn more.
OK... I said the last was the last but this is my last point. Keep on shooting.
Hope you get your two cents worth...
TC |
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03/06/2006 11:09:52 PM · #48 |
It might have been said already, but 6 shots in 800 isn't a bad ratio. I usually figure on maybe 8-10 promising shots per 100, but only 2-3 that I really like. You aren't too far off that.
Keep going! |
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03/06/2006 11:09:58 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by CarpeNoctem:
...I am at the end of my rope, and if I don't get an epiphany soon, I'm gonna run out of rope.
When did it 'click' for you? What did you do to make it happen? ... |
Well... there is a time, a tedious time at that, to read the manual and internalize a short list of technical understandings and processes. Why bother with this though, unless we're sufficiently motivated in the first place. Some folks want to become photographers or poets or pianists, because they want to be famous or famously recognized or admired while sitting by the pool petting a gazelle. Some photographers can even make a fairly decent living by doing what they do best (unlike the poet and the pianist...).
Some folks become photographers or poets or pianists or painters, because there's nothing else they're good at. They choose a discipline not because they already have some skill or affinity for it but rather because they have none. Very few pianists have chosen their vocation because they inherited a grand piano. On the other hand, I've met a very good poet once who had never used a pen in his life. Bobby Dylan never had a voice, but it didn't stop him from singing.
In the sixties we buried several roles of film in the soil for a season, because we were curious and, apparently, had nothing better to do. For this experiment, we didn't need a camera - life in its paradoxical ways, right there, for us to study, to wonder about and to laugh with.
Really, what good is a pianist, a poet and a photographer unless he has something to say? -Tedium, boredom, despair, all these familiar states have their use. They're nothing else but motivators, of course. Rage would be a more powerful causation than boredom, but, eventually, even boredom turns to restlessness and action. Rage turns to love, if we let it.
Most folks don't let it. We appease, alleviate or deny everything negative that befalls us. We are very efficient at doing this. In the process, we have created a whole society nearly immune to experience and real feelings.
If it wasn't for the lot of us (poets, pianists and photographers), it'll take more than terrorists to get a rise out of so much complacency. Why not, then, incite a little riot in the heart?
I'm not quite dead yet. Are you?
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03/06/2006 11:11:40 PM · #50 |
I am probably not the most ideal person to offer advice on improving photography, but I have my two cents about feeling uninspired. I guess I often feel I am still in the same state as you are right now. I got the Canon 300D a year ago. I'm getting pretty close to the 8000 mark, and really can't say I have that many 'great' shots. I am being generous to make myself feel good, but I would be lucky to have 100 good shots. I am far from a Master of DPC. According to my 'scores', I am less than average. I just don't see it. I don't agree with it. I just keep going. I find a challenge that interests or inspires me, I shoot. I'm inspired. I'm happy. Often, I end up with a photo that doesn't work at all for the challenge, but it ends up being one of my best shots. IMO of course.
I think my son has taught me the most about using my brain, not just my eye, to process the big pictures into smaller pieces. It is natural for us to see the big picture. We rarely step down to look at the details of our daily drive. I am driving down the highway. I see the roadsigns I see everyday. I know there are railroad crossing signs on my left. There are gas stations on my right. My son will yell out CIRCLE. In attempt to humor him and applaud him finding a circle, I'm looking all over for the damn circle. Maybe he is talking about the upcoming traffic light. Those are circles right? Minutes later he will yell out YELLOW. It takes me a long time to realize that he is talking about the RR crossing signs, nevermind that he talked about train tracks and trains along the whole drive.
I see an intersection that happens to have a railroad corssing. He sees railroad crossings, circles and the color yellow at every single intersection...and don't forget the red lights, white X's and train tracks. He's autistic. His world is broken up into segments and pieces. It is the only way he can process life around him. I decided I wanted to be intrigued by the tiny pieces rather than wandering aimlessly in the big picture. Soon, everything, on every drive was a photographic oppturnity waiting to be discovered. You wanted to know if there was ever some great epiphany...for some, like me, I suppose there is something that inspires you enough to stick with it. |
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