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02/06/2003 12:14:20 PM · #1 |
Quote:
"I do not object to retouching, dodging. or accentuation as long as they do not interfere with the natural qualities of photographic technique." - Alfred Stieglitz
Learn More about Alfried Stieglitz
HERE.
Some of the portraits on that site show the relationship between Stieglitz and Georgia O'Keefe...
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02/06/2003 12:22:02 PM · #2 |
Comment...
I agree completely with Stieglitz's quote posted above. I have no problems with any post processing editing of photography as long as it does not significantly change the photograph from its original state.
In today's world of Adobe Photoshop and equivalents, the ability to apply artistic filters gives photographers an easy way to create 'digital art' from their photographs.
To me, 'digital art' and photography are two entirely different things. I don't treat the two equally and I don't view the two from the same perspective. I'm under the impression that a photograph should look like a photograph.. not like a painting.. not like a drawing.. not like a computerized creation.
Post processing of a photograph should only include simple things, such as dodging and burning, spot removal, very minor hue and saturation adjustments, conversion to black and white, duotoning, etc. All of these items are normally achievable in a darkroom environment. I'm not saying that the other fancy filter effects from photoshop are not possible in a darkroom, but once again, I don't consider it photography in its purest form when those changes are applied to an image.
Well done post processing does not make the viewer say "wow... look at how good this guy is with photoshop." It makes the viewer say "wow.. that is an awesome photo." :)
di di di dah di dah
Message edited by author 2003-02-06 14:06:18.
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02/06/2003 02:04:03 PM · #3 |
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02/06/2003 02:57:27 PM · #4 |
Some photos were recently discovered in someones attack. It turned out to be a bunch of photos that Ansel shot (35mm and 4x5 I think) while he was on vacation with Georgia O'Keefe and Alfred Stieglitz. If I am not mistaken Alfred and Georgia were a couple weren't they? Oh well, doesn't matter.
How would you like to just find 30+ images by Ansel shot on vacation with some bud's... I would need oxygen. I think they are going to be auctioned. I read a little blurb about it in PopPhot.
I agree with what is said, but I will also say that I like the merging of the two art styles very much. I don't have a problem with an image that is "merged" with digital manipulation to the point were you know it isn't real. I have seen many wonderful hybrid pieces that I have liked very much. I think it is all good but should also be stated what is what. Manipulated pieces should not be passed off as real. I think that is bogus...
Dave
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02/06/2003 06:08:38 PM · #5 |
I don't dislike digital art either... I just don't like it passed of as photography...
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02/06/2003 11:36:04 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
Some photos were recently discovered in someones attack. It turned out to be a bunch of photos that Ansel shot (35mm and 4x5 I think) while he was on vacation with Georgia O'Keefe and Alfred Stieglitz. If I am not mistaken Alfred and Georgia were a couple weren't they? Oh well, doesn't matter.
How would you like to just find 30+ images by Ansel shot on vacation with some bud's... I would need oxygen. I think they are going to be auctioned. I read a little blurb about it in PopPhot.
I agree with what is said, but I will also say that I like the merging of the two art styles very much. I don't have a problem with an image that is "merged" with digital manipulation to the point were you know it isn't real. I have seen many wonderful hybrid pieces that I have liked very much. I think it is all good but should also be stated what is what. Manipulated pieces should not be passed off as real. I think that is bogus...
Dave |
Yes, oxygen...and more insurance!
I use all the techniques, although I do 98% of my manipulations using only tone curves, Unsharp Mask, and Gaussian Blur filters (all of which are currently DPC-legal; very lucky for me!). A rarely use any "effects" filters, yet several of my photos have a "painted" look. But usually I take it to an extreme...I don't try to pass it off as naturalistic.
I sometimes do collage work or restoration, where the intent is to fool the viewer, but I always try to make it clear the photo is a composite or retouched, not historical or documentary.
I'd like to be able to do some dodging/burning or use a tone curve through a mask.
Message edited by author 2003-02-06 23:37:52. |
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02/07/2003 01:04:39 AM · #7 |
Stieglitz was an interesting guy, with great ideas about the process of communicating ideas through images. Very heavy going though, if you get into all the philosophical things he wrote.
In terms of photography vs. digital art, I just don't know how to make that distinction. I posted Man Ray's "Le Violon D'Ingres" in one of my Art Appreciation posts. I believe the f-clefs on Kiki de Montparnasse's back were not painted on, but created by masking them on the photo paper itself. I'm not sure though. It was Man Ray's style back then to play with "rayographs", solarisers, filters, etc. However, I consider him a photographer rather than a "dark room artist" or something.
I love seeing what people can achieve with bizarre post-processing just as much as I love seeing what people achieve in pure photography. They're two different media with different skill sets, but it's all art to me. |
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02/07/2003 06:22:45 AM · #8 |
| Personally, I prefer digital art to photography, but I love both. The distinction needs to be made that digital art is not simply applying a purchased photoshop filter to a poor photograph. Digital art is the ability to combine photographs, drawings, paintings, computer illustrations, cad drawings, 3d art, music, video, etc.(any other form of self made art) into a unified piece of modern artwork. The ability to merge our art forms lends itself to endless possibilities, ennumerably more than there are in photography, which is just a small fragment of what the term digital art combines. I still love the traditional photo but in todays world I feel it is important and also fulfilling to stretch the limits of what I can do with it. It is important, of course, that when creating digital art, that the artist is also a good photographer and that they utilize their own photographs and not plagairize the work of others. In my opinion there are people who are good with photoshop as was stated and then there are people that are artistic and creative with photoshop. Therein lies the difference between creative and commercial artists. Are you working on something because you love doing it or are you doing it solely to get paid? The same is true for photographers. I believe that photography is a skill that any good digital artist should master and I strongly encourage traditional photographers to expand their creative horizons in any way that they see fit. |
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02/08/2003 02:47:26 PM · #9 |
To me it's very hard to draw the line between "photography" and "digital art".
My entry to the "Square" challenge was a very interesting experience. While I also wouldn't categorize it as a "photography", it is a DPC rules legal photo. So is it a digital or is it a "normal" photo? Or the Man Ray's photo which Lisa introduced.
Sometimes I find the rules on DPC very limiting, but in general I like them because they force us to make a good "raw" photo and not trying to save a bad photo by too much manipulation. This helps learning the technical aspects of photography.
On the other hand I like manipulated photos from the artistic point if view. E.g. I have the feeling that I'm more and more attracted to abstracts and this subject just lends itself to digital manipulation :-)
Do you think photos which are not "pure" enough aren't appropiate on DPC? I could understand that because I think the primary focus is the learning aspect of the technical issues of photography. But I also appreciate the artistical aspects.
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