Cheater, cheater.... ;-) - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/16/2005 12:18:01 PM · #176

Originally posted by azoychka:

frumoaznicul I'd like it if you would critique one of your photos too............

Sure, pick one for it wichever you want, jut try to pick a more recent one, I have a few older ones that I don't really have to critique much on them like my blue ribbon one. They are "just crap" that's all critique I have on those. :))

I have to run somewere now, Ill be back in a couple of hours. Till then tell me wich one you want me to critique.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

09/16/2005 01:29:24 PM · #177

(PM posts removed by request to keep the thread on track- please carry on). ;-)

Nikon MF Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AIS

09/16/2005 01:42:23 PM · #178

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:

Originally posted by azoychka:
frumoaznicul I'd like it if you would critique one of your photos too............

Sure, pick one for it wichever you want, jut try to pick a more recent one, I have a few older ones that I don't really have to critique much on them like my blue ribbon one. They are "just crap" that's all critique I have on those. :))

I have to run somewere now, Ill be back in a couple of hours. Till then tell me wich one you want me to critique.

Please choose one that stands out to you and critique in art terms. If you don't mind. Strengths and weaknesses.

Mustardhead

Nikon D800E

09/16/2005 05:45:59 PM · #179

Originally posted by bear_music:

I find it all very depressing. That's the single best picture I've taken all year and people are dumping on me 'cuz so-called "anonymity" was breached simply because the image looked like what I do best. It's enough to make me weep. And, to be honest, I'm GLAD the date stamp was wrong so I won't have to put up with this crap any longer on that picture.

For what it is worth, I added the picture as a favourite. At the time I had no idea who had taken it.

Do I recognise the location? No, despite having lurked the forums for the best part of two years.

Did I recognise Robert's style? No, but then some people are infuriating if you try to spot their style, they come up with too much different work, like raindrops on twigs ;)

Roger

Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II

09/17/2005 05:33:31 AM · #180

Originally posted by azoychka:

Please choose one that stands out to you and critique in art terms. If you don't mind. Strengths and weaknesses.

You are making it easy for me but probably it's not even your intention to make it hard. I'm going to choose my favorite I ever took. Sorry for yesterday I returned verry late and I was verry tired so here I go:

It's verry hard to be objeecttive when you judge your own "children" but that's what makes this a good exercise so I'm going to try my best. Also I wish I made this in my own language my english resumes to simpler words, not much as you say "art terms". I belive in my own language my speech would be more consistent.

First of all I'm going to explain it a little, and why am I doing this kind of photography. My country and a few around here are passing a verry interesting moment in histoy. A transition from totalitarism and comunism, to democracy and capitalism. Nobody did this transition from one day to another it's a long and bumpy road and it has alot of abnormalities. I must admit the western world accepts images like this better, when I posted it in Romanian forums, some liked it because of the composition and aspects like that, but the true meaning of the image was nothing new to them because they see it every day. I think to them it will be more interesting in the future when this transition period will be far behind and everything will look impecable clean and (dull in my opinion) like the western world does. I am fascinated by this, and there are so many interesting things to see, from completely ridiculous up to real heartbreaking tragedy's. One interesting fact is the contrast between people. Corruption is verry high, so alot of people became incredibly rich, the rest of them are incredibly poor. Almost half of them live like everybody else in the 2005, while the other half is somewere in the beginning of 19'th century and this is regardless of rich and poor. Some of the people driving ferrari's and lexus are spiritualy and mentally still in the 19'th century. Imagine this as a pallete with 2 colors, sometimes colors flow into eachother and where that happens the most interesting unintencional nuancess, and aspects pop out.

I think this is a period in time that brings out alot of interesting aspects of the human nature, and I feel the need to document it. That's what I am doing and that's why I photograph tese people and this is where this image belongs.

Now about the image itself.

First the choice for the title. I always like to choose a title in a manner that doesn't unreveal to much. "Trainstation girl", a gairl in a trainstation and that's it, not where is the trainstation not what the girl is doing there nothing else. I also almost never write any explanations to the images and I do that in purpose. When judjing an image there is an impact between 2 intentions. The intention of the photographer and the intention of the viewer. I think photographers who reveal to much with text near the image, steal from the viewer's need to wonder. From his need to make up his own storry about it. Think about how many people wondered about Gioconda's enigmatic smile. Everyone made up his own storry about it. This is one of the most important beauty of art it's food for thought and I think photographers shouldn't steal that from the viewer that with too much textual explanations. Photographer's intention and viewer's intention is best to not be the same, that way people make theyr own storry about it. Read the comments, and notice how some people say it's from the 1920's others say it's from the 50's each commenter has it's own version of what that image means.

I don't even know anything about the girl myself the shot is canid and I haven't got to spoke with her at all. So my storry about the girl it is also and imaginary one. I love that. Making up story's. In my mind it has a verry interesting feeling like she poped out of one of the Dickens books, or "catcher i the rie" or such chidren adventure books. What is she waiting for? What is she staring at so intensly? Where does she come from? Where is she going? What's her name? What kind of child is she? These are all questions that shall not remain unanswered but everyone should answer them for themself. It's how you want her to be. My photo is an invitation for the viewer to have an imagination and have a story for her.

Often when I look at the image, I get captivated by her bodylanguage. I's like she's tense and relaxed at the same time. I got so captivated by her that I was careless, about checking out what was she so intensly staring at? Can be anything even nothing. But that's another point of attraction in the image. That pure honest curiosity unique for the children and how they stare at things, most often things adulds go by wihout even noticing them. Then there is her outfit. So tipical for a little girl to my judgement she's around 13-14 years old, the high hill shiny shoes and her purse she rests on. All kids try to do that, look like adults. The endless story, that when you are a kid you hate it and you want to be an adult and when you are an adult you hate it and want to be a kid again so you can play with adult outfit, and afford to stare with such interest and curiosity to anything. I think she's a girl from the country and she only gets dressed like that when she comes to the city. She's verry proud of those shoes, those golden shoes...

Those golden shoes... this is probably one of the weakness that comes out from my choice to make it a classic vintage looking black and white. Her shoes were like made of siny gold. However the color version didn't look so good this kind of image begs for a classic b&w so overall even if I lost the golden shoes I feel it is better like this. Colors were too many and messy not much of a color composition in the image. I also wouldn't go for the selective desaturation Spillberg cliche, I think that would "cheapen" and take alot from the image's power. I'd loose the classic look of it.

The texture, the lines, and the composition and the angle.

Our trainstation is a verry old building, and the grungy textures of the walls and floor add verry much to the classic look of it. The plastic modern bench kinda steals from that, I think if an old wooden bench or something like that, would of been there instead, the image would be alot more powerful, but what could I do about that? This aspect was even more obvious in color than it is in b/w and that is another reason for my choice to make it b/w. The main line of the image almost splits the image in half on an aprox 20-30 degree diagonal that is verry pleasing to the eye, and while that image kinda take away the viewer from the girl and moves him to the extra elements of the image. The newspaper and the lugage. I'm not shure if those were her's or someone else's but they are good elements that ilustrate a trainstation's waiting room. Almost everyone has a luggage in a trainstation, and almost everyone in a waiting room has to kill time, aka read the newspaper. The rest of the lines on he walls and floor bring the eye thowards the girl.

The angle is I think good too, anymoe to the left I think it would be too much profile shot, and I would loose her intense stare probably, anymore frontal would make it look to flat and straight. It also helps alot to ilustrate how proud she is about her golden shoes and how she pushes her legs in front so everyone notices them.

The composition is a rule of thirds based one, all I tried really is not to center her too much and also include the other elements the newspaper and th lugage. Some said those are distracting, I think they add alot to the story, as I said they help alot in ilustrating the trainstation waiting room.

Tehnically it could have more detail, but I was totaly surprized by her, I was passing thru the waiting room going home that day, the camera was totally unprepared, and not wanting to loose the "decisive moment" I started shooting as soon as I saw her. I was shooting at 1/60 hand held with an easy weight sony F717 and I realised that as soon as I took my first shot, but as I said I didn't want to loose it, she could of stand up any second, so I tried to keep my hand as steady as possible and shoot over and over about 20 frames in hope that one will come out right. This was the best of them, but even tho I lost alot of detail it's visible mostly on her hair, I think that's not such a big deal. Many classic images are often even worse than this in that sense.

This is my critique, and I didn't even touched the element that was told here before and the element some think it's the only one that counts. "The impact".

Instead I will quote from a book I recntly read, Towards a Philosophy of Photography by Vilem Flusser, a book that I recomand to anyone interested to look at photography further than the initial impact.

"If an image and all there is to it can be caught with a single look, if there isn't anymore signifiance and symbolism to it, than that image is superficial."

HornOUBet

Panasonic Lumix G 25mm f/1.7 ASPH

09/17/2005 12:02:01 PM · #181

I apologise for being so busy and not answering sooner... had to go to work & school...etc...

I think this photo is great because the composition is good even though it does not fit the rule of thirds. Reflected photos should divide the photo roughly in half, not thirds...this photo does that. There is a nice balance of colors, shades, dark & light. The photo makes me wonder where the owner of the boat is? Could it be me? Did I swim over to the shore to get a photo of my boat in the sunset? Or is the owner dead and drowned in the water, Or are there 2 people laying in the boat making mad, passionate love while the Beauty of God/Allah/Budda/Mother Nature goes on around them? No one knows, it is a mystery to all (except Bear, of course...) Perhaps GREAT was not the best word to use...but it is is not an off base word to use either. Quote from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
4 : full of emotion
5 a : EMINENT, DISTINGUISHED
9 : markedly superior in character or quality; especially : NOBLE
(As you can see, I only showed 3 (Number 4,5, & 9) of the English meanings, of which there are many....)

Perhaps this statement belongs in a different thread, I don't know, but as I vote on a Challenge, I generally sort first opinions in 3 catagories, Bad, Average, & Good... on 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes 4th or 5th pass, I then further subdivide, and attempt to give my favorite 2 or 3 photos For that Challenge a 9 or 10..... not that a 10 on this particular Challenge is equal to a 10 on another challenge... I rate individual challenges based on what I like, an amateur photographer who feels like he has SOME artistic ability,talent and taste. A human with emotions, feelings, likes and dislikes... I don't like selective desaturation. Photos with that technique gets a minus 1 unless it is done very well and pleases me for a particular situation.If it makes me smile, plus 1 automatically. If it makes me cry, plus 2....theres part of the math formula for me, but my formula is different than yours, even though there may be parts of our formulas that are similar. Hence many (average) people with similar (simple) formulas will also think some photos are great like I do, although they may use another word, with similar connotations.....

Also, I like the idea of having Educated and Noteable judges casting seperate votes on each Challenge, if you can find any willing to invest the time it would take them...

Originally posted by azoychka:

Originally posted by HornOUBet:
I did not recognize his photo, it was 1 of 2 ten votes I cast on that particular challenge, because it was a GREAT photo, and unlike Bear, I am saddened by the date stamp being incorrect...

Why is it a 'GREAT' photo?

texttext

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/17/2005 11:12:49 PM · #182

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:

Originally posted by azoychka:
Please choose one that stands out to you and critique in art terms. If you don't mind. Strengths and weaknesses.

You are making it easy for me but probably it's not even your intention to make it hard. I'm going to choose my favorite I ever took. Sorry for yesterday I returned verry late and I was verry tired so here I go:

It's verry hard to be objeecttive when you judge your own "children" but that's what makes this a good exercise so I'm going to try my best. Also I wish I made this in my own language my english resumes to simpler words, not much as you say "art terms". I belive in my own language my speech would be more consistent.

First of all I'm going to explain it a little, and why am I doing this kind of photography. My country and a few around here are passing a verry interesting moment in histoy. A transition from totalitarism and comunism, to democracy and capitalism. Nobody did this transition from one day to another it's a long and bumpy road and it has alot of abnormalities. I must admit the western world accepts images like this better, when I posted it in Romanian forums, some liked it because of the composition and aspects like that, but the true meaning of the image was nothing new to them because they see it every day. I think to them it will be more interesting in the future when this transition period will be far behind and everything will look impecable clean and (dull in my opinion) like the western world does. I am fascinated by this, and there are so many interesting things to see, from completely ridiculous up to real heartbreaking tragedy's. One interesting fact is the contrast between people. Corruption is verry high, so alot of people became incredibly rich, the rest of them are incredibly poor. Almost half of them live like everybody else in the 2005, while the other half is somewere in the beginning of 19'th century and this is regardless of rich and poor. Some of the people driving ferrari's and lexus are spiritualy and mentally still in the 19'th century. Imagine this as a pallete with 2 colors, sometimes colors flow into eachother and where that happens the most interesting unintencional nuancess, and aspects pop out.

I think this is a period in time that brings out alot of interesting aspects of the human nature, and I feel the need to document it. That's what I am doing and that's why I photograph tese people and this is where this image belongs.

Now about the image itself.

First the choice for the title. I always like to choose a title in a manner that doesn't unreveal to much. "Trainstation girl", a gairl in a trainstation and that's it, not where is the trainstation not what the girl is doing there nothing else. I also almost never write any explanations to the images and I do that in purpose. When judjing an image there is an impact between 2 intentions. The intention of the photographer and the intention of the viewer. I think photographers who reveal to much with text near the image, steal from the viewer's need to wonder. From his need to make up his own storry about it. Think about how many people wondered about Gioconda's enigmatic smile. Everyone made up his own storry about it. This is one of the most important beauty of art it's food for thought and I think photographers shouldn't steal that from the viewer that with too much textual explanations. Photographer's intention and viewer's intention is best to not be the same, that way people make theyr own storry about it. Read the comments, and notice how some people say it's from the 1920's others say it's from the 50's each commenter has it's own version of what that image means.

I don't even know anything about the girl myself the shot is canid and I haven't got to spoke with her at all. So my storry about the girl it is also and imaginary one. I love that. Making up story's. In my mind it has a verry interesting feeling like she poped out of one of the Dickens books, or "catcher i the rie" or such chidren adventure books. What is she waiting for? What is she staring at so intensly? Where does she come from? Where is she going? What's her name? What kind of child is she? These are all questions that shall not remain unanswered but everyone should answer them for themself. It's how you want her to be. My photo is an invitation for the viewer to have an imagination and have a story for her.

Often when I look at the image, I get captivated by her bodylanguage. I's like she's tense and relaxed at the same time. I got so captivated by her that I was careless, about checking out what was she so intensly staring at? Can be anything even nothing. But that's another point of attraction in the image. That pure honest curiosity unique for the children and how they stare at things, most often things adulds go by wihout even noticing them. Then there is her outfit. So tipical for a little girl to my judgement she's around 13-14 years old, the high hill shiny shoes and her purse she rests on. All kids try to do that, look like adults. The endless story, that when you are a kid you hate it and you want to be an adult and when you are an adult you hate it and want to be a kid again so you can play with adult outfit, and afford to stare with such interest and curiosity to anything. I think she's a girl from the country and she only gets dressed like that when she comes to the city. She's verry proud of those shoes, those golden shoes...

Those golden shoes... this is probably one of the weakness that comes out from my choice to make it a classic vintage looking black and white. Her shoes were like made of siny gold. However the color version didn't look so good this kind of image begs for a classic b&w so overall even if I lost the golden shoes I feel it is better like this. Colors were too many and messy not much of a color composition in the image. I also wouldn't go for the selective desaturation Spillberg cliche, I think that would "cheapen" and take alot from the image's power. I'd loose the classic look of it.

The texture, the lines, and the composition and the angle.

Our trainstation is a verry old building, and the grungy textures of the walls and floor add verry much to the classic look of it. The plastic modern bench kinda steals from that, I think if an old wooden bench or something like that, would of been there instead, the image would be alot more powerful, but what could I do about that? This aspect was even more obvious in color than it is in b/w and that is another reason for my choice to make it b/w. The main line of the image almost splits the image in half on an aprox 20-30 degree diagonal that is verry pleasing to the eye, and while that image kinda take away the viewer from the girl and moves him to the extra elements of the image. The newspaper and the lugage. I'm not shure if those were her's or someone else's but they are good elements that ilustrate a trainstation's waiting room. Almost everyone has a luggage in a trainstation, and almost everyone in a waiting room has to kill time, aka read the newspaper. The rest of the lines on he walls and floor bring the eye thowards the girl.

The angle is I think good too, anymoe to the left I think it would be too much profile shot, and I would loose her intense stare probably, anymore frontal would make it look to flat and straight. It also helps alot to ilustrate how proud she is about her golden shoes and how she pushes her legs in front so everyone notices them.

The composition is a rule of thirds based one, all I tried really is not to center her too much and also include the other elements the newspaper and th lugage. Some said those are distracting, I think they add alot to the story, as I said they help alot in ilustrating the trainstation waiting room.

Tehnically it could have more detail, but I was totaly surprized by her, I was passing thru the waiting room going home that day, the camera was totally unprepared, and not wanting to loose the "decisive moment" I started shooting as soon as I saw her. I was shooting at 1/60 hand held with an easy weight sony F717 and I realised that as soon as I took my first shot, but as I said I didn't want to loose it, she could of stand up any second, so I tried to keep my hand as steady as possible and shoot over and over about 20 frames in hope that one will come out right. This was the best of them, but even tho I lost alot of detail it's visible mostly on her hair, I think that's not such a big deal. Many classic images are often even worse than this in that sense.

This is my critique, and I didn't even touched the element that was told here before and the element some think it's the only one that counts. "The impact".

Instead I will quote from a book I recntly read, Towards a Philosophy of Photography by Vilem Flusser, a book that I recomand to anyone interested to look at photography further than the initial impact.

"If an image and all there is to it can be caught with a single look, if there isn't anymore signifiance and symbolism to it, than that image is superficial."

Thank you for taking the time to analyse your photo. I will respond in greater detail when I am able. Right now my son in in an ice hockey tournament and I am in various rinks most of the time. I would like to reflect on what you have said first before I respond. thanks again. Wonderful photo and I yes my intention was not to make it hard for you but to hopefully make it meaningful.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

09/17/2005 11:39:35 PM · #183

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:

Your English is fine, your explanations are fine, the photo is fine. : )

Your photo reminds me a bit of this one I took, also a quick candid with no set-up, trying to get the camera out while the boat was lined up with the bench and breakwater. I like the way the guy is looking at the boat -- you can almost tell what he's thinking even though you can't see his face.

09/18/2005 09:35:54 PM · #184

frumoaznicul you said you studied art and teach painting? Is this a full-time job?

Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II USM

09/19/2005 03:47:15 AM · #185

Originally posted by azoychka:

frumoaznicul you said you studied art and teach painting? Is this a full-time job?

No actualy I don't practice but that's what I have a degree for. I do design (and I think photography) right now. Teachers are starving here unfortunately. Maybe one day...

Message edited by author 2005-09-19 03:50:57.

orussell

Canon EOS Rebel T6s

09/19/2005 06:57:17 AM · #186

Maybe they should implement a locality rule. Make it impossible for me to vote for my fellow islanders.

09/19/2005 07:40:02 AM · #187

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:

Originally posted by azoychka:
frumoaznicul you said you studied art and teach painting? Is this a full-time job?

No actualy I don't practice but that's what I have a degree for. I do design (and I think photography) right now. Teachers are starving here unfortunately. Maybe one day...

Where did you study and what art?

09/19/2005 08:11:51 AM · #188

Originally posted by azoychka:

Where did you study and what art?

Here in Satu Mare, Romania "Liceul de muzica si arte plastice Aurel Popp" if it tells you anything, specialty oil painting bud did also graphics and clay modelling alot.

09/19/2005 11:07:23 AM · #189

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:

Originally posted by azoychka:

Where did you study and what art?

Here in Satu Mare, Romania "Liceul de muzica si arte plastice Aurel Popp" if it tells you anything, specialty oil painting bud did also graphics and clay modelling alot.

Do you still paint? If so what?