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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Sick of hearing about the rule of thirds!
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 12/08/2002 08:46:09 PM · #1
i'm getting really annoyed with people always referring to the rule of thirds whenever they think something is wrong with my image. News flash.. the "rule" of thirds is a guideline.... a helpful hint if you have no clue how to compose an image. I also get annoyed when people refer to the rule of thirds when they really have no idea what it is.

Why dont people in here force-feed other composition helpers? S curves and leading lines are equally important (if not more!). I've just had enough with the rule of thirds.
 12/08/2002 08:54:04 PM · #2
...and just because a photo lends itself to being in landscape mode doesn't mean it HAS to be in landscape mode. Take a look at the photo again... maybe there is meaning to the photographer's/artist's choice.
 12/08/2002 09:02:11 PM · #3
There might also be meaning behind why more than one person said it would lend itself better to a landscape. Which image are you talking about?

I'm annoyed with dumb comments. Now I admit i am a photo student and i am still learning... but I do know how to compose a picture fairly well. Putting a flower in the lower third of the picture and leaving 2/3 of your image blank is just dumb. taking a shot of a flower head on is also equally dumb (most of the time). Oh and my flower was not dead, nor was it drying up and shrivelling up. It just looks that way because that's the way it is. I actually think its a cool flower because it doesn't look like all the other flowers. And it's blue. not purple.

Yeesh.
 12/08/2002 09:35:52 PM · #4
I can understand how this can be partcularly frustrating. I myself have left a couple of comments sometimes stating that the subject is unfortunately dead center, and I've wondered if people felt I was just adhering to a rule without thinking about the picture.

I am, however, aware that the "rule" of thirds isn't really a rule - not only is it sometimes impossible to adhere to, but sometimes a central compositon is actually more visually appealing (such as symmetry shots).

But the cases where I made comments about a photo being dead centre, I guess deep down I felt that in those cases, the photo would look much better if the subject was off-center. Less of a snapshot, if you will. Sometimes people don't try different compositions and it can be helpful to point out an alternate angle to approach with the subject.

Perhaps this is the reasoning behind the comments you received, or perhaps not. Just thought I'd throw my two cents in. :)

Dave

Originally posted by BigSmiles:
i'm getting really annoyed with people always referring to the rule of thirds whenever they think something is wrong with my image. News flash.. the "rule" of thirds is a guideline.... a helpful hint if you have no clue how to compose an image. I also get annoyed when people refer to the rule of thirds when they really have no idea what it is.

Why dont people in here force-feed other composition helpers? S curves and leading lines are equally important (if not more!). I've just had enough with the rule of thirds.
 12/08/2002 10:10:09 PM · #5
I think there is a rule of thirds tutorial, if it transfered over from the old site. It was very nicely written and showed how YES, in some cases, the "ROT" did improve an image. I don't think it's REQUIRED by any means, however, sometimes, setting the subject to one side or another, or up in the corner, it makes it a bit more "planned" rather than just set the object down and shoot.
I don't comment on "the rule of thirds" but sometimes say that it might look better a bit less centered. Some things work centered, some dont. Just a thought. Check out that tutorial if it's still there.
~Heather~
Just checked and YES, it's still there.

Message edited by author 2002-12-08 22:10:41.
 12/08/2002 10:10:48 PM · #6
Sometimes someone mentions something as a thought or suggestion, but still rates the photo high...I for one use the comment box quite a bit to sort of straighten out how I feel about a photo.. it is like stream of thought.
Just an idea.
 12/08/2002 10:28:51 PM · #7
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
There might also be meaning behind why more than one person said it would lend itself better to a landscape. Which image are you talking about?

I'm annoyed with dumb comments. Now I admit i am a photo student and i am still learning... but I do know how to compose a picture fairly well. Putting a flower in the lower third of the picture and leaving 2/3 of your image blank is just dumb. taking a shot of a flower head on is also equally dumb (most of the time). Oh and my flower was not dead, nor was it drying up and shrivelling up. It just looks that way because that's the way it is. I actually think its a cool flower because it doesn't look like all the other flowers. And it's blue. not purple.

I agree about the third rule and wish people would understand it is just a guideline, as I have mentioned several time in MY COMMENTS this week. As for cutting off SOME of the STEM does not mean all of it. If a person thinks a flower looks purple, and states it that way, why get so angry at them. If more people grip like I've read in this forum this time, people will stop commenting, much less signing their comments, and just give you a low score and let you figure out for yourself what they were thinking. After all, what you are posting here is "what you think" and that's ok? but you don't want them to say what they think about your photo? I thought that was the reason for submitting to the challenge - to get many different people to tell you what they think. The people who are a part of this are from all walks of life, with all kinds of backgrounds, likes and dislikes, and from different parts of the world. And no two are alike. If you don't want people to comment, why don't you do either one of two things: l. state "no comments, only scores" or 2. Don't submit any more photos. And I'm not telling you to not submit any more photos. Believe it or not I did like that flower, even though TO ME it looked purple and like a couple places in the flower were wilting some. This should be a friendly place and people are being put down more and more for commenting. No, I'm not expert photographer, and never will be, but I do love photography and know what I like and don't like. I will improve - if I am given half a chance. It's comments like in this forum that have almost made me quit the challenge and have intimidated me into not submitting a photo yet. Well my thoughts are just as good, and as valid, as any one elses, and better than some, and worse than some. I don't think you meant it as harshly as it came across. If I did, I wouldn't even bother writing back to you. I would just politely bow out. Let's think about others once in a while, and how what we say comes across. I'll be the first to apologize if I've hurt someone or wronged someone, so I try hard not to have to. I hope we can remain on a friendly basis. Take this for what it is.....my thoughts and opinion, and that's all.

PTL.

"But then who am I to judge any?"
Yeesh.
 12/08/2002 10:38:08 PM · #8
Note: You no longer need to sign comments as they are not anonymous anymore (during the voting period).
 12/08/2002 10:40:28 PM · #9
Putting a flower in the lower third of the picture and leaving 2/3 of your image blank is just dumb. taking a shot of a flower head on is also equally dumb (most of the time).

This is the most closed-minded piece of crap I've ever heard.
 12/08/2002 10:53:28 PM · #10
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
Putting a flower in the lower third of the picture and leaving 2/3 of your image blank is just dumb. taking a shot of a flower head on is also equally dumb (most of the time).

This is the most closed-minded piece of crap I've ever heard.


jimmy -- try taking two or three deep breaths and re-phrasing that more constructively so as to avoid tarring yourself with your own brush...
(sorry for the ugly metaphor everyone, but I couldn't think of a better one quickly...)
 12/08/2002 11:25:39 PM · #11
Why don't we all take a good deep breath, slowly exhale and let all the anger and frustration out with it. Haveing your say is good, but once you've said it you need to let it go. These are just our individual thought and feeling, which we all are intitled to and they will differ. But that's no reason to really get that upset about. So several of us make similar remarks, make instead of getting mad you might want to re-look at your photo with these suggestions in mind. If you don't like it dismiss it. If you do, you've learned something. And that is why we are all here - to learn. If we can't take constructive criticism without getting angry then we can't learn, and are defeating our reasons for being here. Take it for what it's worth - another persons thoughts and suggestions. Suggestions are all they are.

PTL

"but then, who am I to judge?"
 12/09/2002 12:07:57 AM · #12
Well I mean, posting about how people prejudge images based on the rule of thirds, then admitting being a student and learning, then saying they know how to compose a picture, and then scoffing at two legitimate forms of composition....that makes absolutely no sense at all.
 12/09/2002 12:23:55 AM · #13
My 2 cents...

Anyone wants to comment on my not using the rule of thirds, having too small a depth of field, or any other nitpick that I might have done intentional, PLEASE feel free!!! I'll take each and every comment I can get and I won't complain about anything you say :)
 12/09/2002 01:00:14 AM · #14
Sometimes I think people forget that just because a photographer did something intentionally (shallow DOF, centered subject, off-center subject, etc..) it does not necessarily mean that is what works best for the shot. Even if you intentionally used a specific effect, someone is perfectly entitled to think it would look better if you had not chosen that specific approach. However, it is equally important to keep in mind that whether or not someone prefaces a comment with "I think" or "In my opinion", all they are giving you is their personal take on what they think would look best. Just because one person thought your flower would have looked better in the lower third of the frame doesn't mean that everyone is obscessed with the rule of thirds. I happened to think your composition on that shot was fine, however I think it also could have been done very well in the bottom third of the shot as well. Suggestions for alternate techniques for a shot are not insults, and they shouldn't be taken as such. On my last shot I submitted (an eye, for macro) I recieved numerous comments that the lighting produced too much glare around the eye, and one that said the glare helped make the shot more effective.
There will be an abundance of different opinions on any photo here. Perhaps the lesson to be learned isn't which method of taking a certain shot is the best, but that different methods will appeal to different people, and you need to choose the method that you are most satisfied with and accept the fact that it will be most effective at reaching only a segment of the audience. There's nothing wrong with that.
 12/09/2002 01:05:52 AM · #15
My initiat comment meant I tell them "they don't have to use the third rule" especially if it ruins their composition. Nitpicking is not what it really is. Or then is it? We are not only looking for what is right to tell you "Good Job" about, but also what is wrong so you'll learn what not to do to improve your talents. And if we have an idea as to how to fix what is wrong, maybe from our own experience, we make a suggestion or thought. But remember these comments are here to help you not to hurt you. Again I say if someone cannot take constructive criticism they cannot learn. One can teach me about one part of photography and another can teach me about something else. I want to learn from everyone. Maybe they had the same problem I'm having a figured out how to overcome it. Bring on your advice, thoughts, or suggestions. I'm here to learn. I admit I don't know it all, in fact very little compared to some on this site. If you did something intentional, maybe you ought to let them know via e-mail and explain why. They might want to try it to after they understand what you were trying to achieve. I don't think anyone makes comments to try to hurt anyone else. Yes, I have read some pretty sharp and uncalled for comments. Just consider the source and go on. Or they may have been having a bad day. A bad day is no excuse, but the next day they'll feel bad about what they said and may be to embarrased to say so. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Think about this.

PTL

"But then who am I to judge?"
 12/09/2002 01:19:44 AM · #16
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
i'm getting really annoyed with people always referring to the rule of thirds whenever they think something is wrong with my image. News flash.. the "rule" of thirds is a guideline.... a helpful hint if you have no clue how to compose an image. I also get annoyed when people refer to the rule of thirds when they really have no idea what it is.

Why dont people in here force-feed other composition helpers? S curves and leading lines are equally important (if not more!). I've just had enough with the rule of thirds.



I feel exactly the same way...


if someone feel that they have a better idea, they should word it wisely, not rudely or blatently. be nice people.

Message edited by author 2002-12-09 01:32:03.
 12/09/2002 01:27:31 AM · #17
If you're refering to your last submission (Blue), then I'd have to say that it is an OK image but i don't seem to like it that much. I mean, you have to grab the viewer's attention on here in order to score well.

That typically means, good contrasting colors (either primary colors, RGB or something in the opposite spectrum -- black versus white, red versus blue, etc.), and yes, either with the rule of thirds or some sort of leading lines, curves, etc. The image you submitted just isn't interesting to me in the few seconds that i have looked at it. In fact, if you were to just photograph the top of the flower without the stems, perhaps it'll be more interesting. But the light is just way too harsh for an outdoor shot of a macro of a flower for it to really grab the attention of the viewer.

Originally posted by BigSmiles:
i'm getting really annoyed with people always referring to the rule of thirds whenever they think something is wrong with my image. News flash.. the "rule" of thirds is a guideline.... a helpful hint if you have no clue how to compose an image. I also get annoyed when people refer to the rule of thirds when they really have no idea what it is.

Why dont people in here force-feed other composition helpers? S curves and leading lines are equally important (if not more!). I've just had enough with the rule of thirds.
 12/09/2002 03:22:14 AM · #18
big: i try not to be a dumb commentor, but i did say something on your last photo about the rule of thirds.

vertically, the focal point of the image (the center of the image) is right about on the upper 1/3 line. horizontally, though, it's not. but you're right, the "rule" of thirds is no such thing. just a guidline. sometimes half-and-half composition is really powerful. it's all about having a feel for how to compose an image. the "rule" is really more of a "rule of thumb"
 12/09/2002 08:16:44 AM · #19
Oooookay I see i've stirred the crowd a little...
let me restate what I said and add a little.
1. I dont think pushing the flower out of the center off to the side would have helped any. It being in the top third is enough.
2. It's not wilting although i can accept it if you think it is and dont like its petals.
3. It's blue... the reason it might look purple is because blue/green are a little too close to each other in the spectrum.
4. a contrasting colour might have suited it fairly nicely instead of its natural green background... I might have to try that!
5. There really isn't any reason to get trashy.. I had a bad day with what i called "dumb comments"... and I apologize... but dont be trashy with me neither ok?
6. I'm sorry but i dont think putting the flower to the lower third would have helped at all.. in fact I think it would have created dead space (not negative space).
7. We do sound like broken records around here promoting the rule of thirds... I'm going to try and get a list of other tips and tricks together so commenters will be better equipped.
8. I get frustrated around here mainly because I get instruction at school.. my professors taught me what I know about photography (mostly) and I learned to deal with my own style and how to compose an image.. I come here and you (in general) dont like what my professors do... and you like things my professors dont. Normally I do things the way I learned at school because I know it works. Not saying there's anything wrong with here though.. Oh and what I submit to challenges is by far not the best stuff I have... I like to do this for my own pleasure.
12/09/2002 08:19:31 AM · #20
Big, please try to take that stuff with a grain of salt. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with yor photo compositionally at all.
12/09/2002 08:32:29 AM · #21
It's just completely frustrating to submit almost every week since june and only have a few images do reasonably well. Most of the year I dont have access to very much so I kind of find something to make up a shot... Not my best work but I actually do like some of it!

12/09/2002 03:40:59 PM · #22
:)

Message edited by author 2002-12-09 15:41:46.
 12/09/2002 04:33:17 PM · #23
OK, it's come to my attention that these Rants are appearing on a regular basis. Like clockwork. I can't quite put my finger on it.

The point of this website is to post images and have them reviewed by your peers. In this case, your peers are mid-to-higher level AMATEUR photographers who enjoy taking photos as a hobby and would really like to advance their skillsets. These are normally people who know a good picture when they see one, even if they can't take such great photos all of the time.

To say that we are giving you advice that is the exact opposite of your professors is just inane. There is no one way to take a photograph. It's not a science experiment, it's an art form. And its purpose is to evoke emotion from the viewer and/or capture a moment in time. How you do that, with or without focus, high or low contrast, is up to you. How that photo is interpreted by others is up to THEM.

If you want your photos critiqued by professors, go to them. If you want to get the reaction of people who are mostly hobbyists, post here. If you don't want to take our comments seriously, then DON'T POST.

At least do us a favor and skip every 4th challenge. It seems your Rants appear on about that cycle. Very interesting.

Rob
 12/09/2002 06:05:47 PM · #24
As I recall these posts are for us to Rant. If you dont like it you dont need to read them.
 12/09/2002 06:10:15 PM · #25
Love and peace, brothers and sisters. Pull the good in, push the bad out. :-)
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