Would you learn another language to keep your job?

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/26/2005 10:06:38 PM · #1

An interesting turn of events for the Dallas Independent School District...the school board has passed a resolution requiring principals to learn the predominant language spoken in the homes of the children enrolled in their school (which means Spanish in most cases) within 3 years or lose their jobs.

Being an educator, I am really kind of saddened. It's just a matter of time before teachers, counselors, and support staff are required to learn another language (which means Spanish in most cases) in order to keep THEIR jobs. Saddened, but not surprised.

Anyone care to discuss?

Jacko

Canon EOS-20D

08/26/2005 10:10:56 PM · #2

No biggie for me. We have both French and English where I live. If you don't know both, you're going to limit your opportunities of advancement.

photodude

08/26/2005 10:12:27 PM · #3

I guess that No Educator Left Behind

krazyivan

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

08/26/2005 10:14:58 PM · #4

I would. I'm fortunate enough to already know spanish. If I had to learn a different language from the beginning. I would love to. As an educator, I would think that you would want to learn a different language. I think it would open up so many more oppourtunities as far as teaching different classes and also teaching English to students who speak no english or very little english. To me that would mean being ahead of the game, more money and JOB SECURITY!!

I also think that it would set an example to students to show them that learning doesn't stop after high school or college.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/26/2005 10:16:32 PM · #5

I don't understand why you're saddened. I do understand why the Principal should speak the predominant language. The counselors should probably as well. This would put them in a better position to comunicate with the parents and in the long run better help the kids.

This does not mean that the kids should not learn English.

Intelli

Nikon D300

08/26/2005 10:18:57 PM · #6

Good rant..

Here in Texas(and other places too I'm sure) we are being overrun by Mexicans running across the border. In my opinion, they should either learn to speak English, or go back to Mexico.

I wouldn't expect Japanese teachers to learn english just because Americans are flooding into their country illegally.

pcody

Canon PowerShot G6

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

08/26/2005 10:20:36 PM · #7

I think it is pretty important that you can converse with the parents of the children you are teaching.
I find it sad that many of the uneducated adults in these households don't have the means or the background that allows them to learn the host language. It's sad that such a heavy burden is placed on their children. I call many people that have to have their children translate for them. I have to tell these children things about their parents that I certainly wouldn't like to. But that is the only way.
I have asked the company I work for to spend the money to teach us to speak spanish. They have refused. How I wish I was in your position.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

08/26/2005 10:21:50 PM · #8

Are all the Spanish speaking people in Texas illegals? If so why is the state make laws based on the illegal population?

What percentage of the Texas population (legal that is) has Spanish as their first language?

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

08/26/2005 10:29:12 PM · #9

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

I haven't found that exact stat yet, but I did find the following:

"According to the analysis, some 47 million Americans speak a language other than English at home. That is an increase of 15 million people since 1990. Spanish speakers increased from 17.3 million in 1990 to 28.1 million in 2000, a 62 percent rise.

The report indicates that while Spanish speakers are spread throughout the country, they are concentrated in California, Texas and Florida. The city with the highest concentration of Spanish speakers is Hiahleah, Fla., where 92 percent of the residents speak Spanish at home. Close behind is Laredo, Texas, with 91 percent.

The major city with the highest proportion of Spanish speakers is Miami, where two-thirds (67 percent) speak Spanish at home; a full three-quarters (75 percent) of Miami residents speak a language other than English at home."

R.

08/26/2005 10:30:25 PM · #10

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

What percentage of the Texas population (legal that is) has Spanish as their first language?

Based on public school data, the state's student population (K-12) in 2003-2004 (the most recently published data) is comprised of 43.8% Hispanic, 38.7% white, 14.3% African-American, .03% Native American, and 2.9% Asian/Pacific Islander. 15.3% of those students combined are identified as Limited English Proficient (LEP). That's a small percentage, in my opinion, to base this fairly drastic measure upon. Dallas ISD is 61.3% Hispanic, and 31.6% LEP. Higher percentages than statewide, but still not even half of the student population.

08/26/2005 10:31:21 PM · #11

Thanks for digging up the stats Robert. I think they are necessary to put this type of thing in perspective.

photodude

08/26/2005 10:33:17 PM · #12

We could let the free market decide

Let's take the monopoly away from the NEA and public schools and go to a pure voucher system. Parents could then decide how important it is for the educators to speak Spanish. I don't know the answer to that one but it would be refreshing to see.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

08/26/2005 10:34:12 PM · #13

Originally posted by laurielblack:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

What percentage of the Texas population (legal that is) has Spanish as their first language?

Based on public school data, the state's student population (K-12) in 2003-2004 (the most recently published data) is comprised of 43.8% Hispanic, 38.7% white, 14.3% African-American, .03% Native American, and 2.9% Asian/Pacific Islander. 15.3% of those students combined are identified as Limited English Proficient (LEP). That's a small percentage, in my opinion, to base this fairly drastic measure upon. Dallas ISD is 61.3% Hispanic, and 31.6% LEP. Higher percentages than statewide, but still not even half of the student population.

What about the parents of these kids? Do they speak English? Can the Principal or other school official communicate with the parents? This is probably more the issue. Kids pick up languages very quickly, however parents that stay home or stick to their own community are less likely to pick up enough of the language to be able to discuss their child's education.

Message edited by author 2005-08-26 22:34:43.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

08/26/2005 10:38:42 PM · #14

It seems to me that in most countries of the world, the educated population routinely speaks more than one language fluently. It does not seem unreasonable to me to hope that our educators will speak, in addition to English, whatever language a significant minority of their students speak at home. It's about more than just language, really; you learn so much about a culture this way, and there are immense cultural differences between hispanic and anglo regions. I'd say that anythign that brings the teachers/administrators closer to their students and their parents is a Good Thing. It's not that hard to learn a language well enough to communicate in it. And the benefits are manifold IMO.

R.

08/26/2005 10:42:19 PM · #15

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

The data is reflective of the home language as well, because most of the referrals to LEP programs begin with a document required when a child enrolls...the Home Language Survey. If the language indicated to be the one spoken at home is not English, then an LEP referral is generated. I'd assume from the numbers given that they would accurately reflect the parent's language as well.

I have 10 non-English or limited English speaking students in my teen pregnancy program right now. When I have to communicate with them or with their families, I utilize the services of a bilingual employee in my building, or the district's Bilingual Community Liaison. All of these girls and their families speak Spanish, and my ability or lack thereof in speaking their language has not limited the care nor the services I'm able to provide to them. The only things that limit them are their lack of developing English skills so that they can get jobs or go to college, and the fact that since they are here illegally, they can't get all of the social services I can provide to US citizens who enroll in the program. Forcing me to learn Spanish won't help them in any of those regards.

08/26/2005 10:49:13 PM · #16

Originally posted by bear_music:

It's not that hard to learn a language well enough to communicate in it. And the benefits are manifold IMO.

R.

If it's not that hard, why then aren't we focusing on having the students and their parents learn English instead?

Tokina AF 12-24mm f/4.0 AT-X Pro DX

08/26/2005 10:50:51 PM · #17

Originally posted by laurielblack:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
What about the parents of these kids? Do they speak English? Can the Principal or other school official communicate with the parents? This is probably more the issue. Kids pick up languages very quickly, however parents that stay home or stick to their own community are less likely to pick up enough of the language to be able to discuss their child's education.

The data is reflective of the home language as well, because most of the referrals to LEP programs begin with a document required when a child enrolls...the Home Language Survey. If the language indicated to be the one spoken at home is not English, then an LEP referral is generated. I'd assume from the numbers given that they would accurately reflect the parent's language as well.

I have 10 non-English or limited English speaking students in my teen pregnancy program right now. When I have to communicate with them or with their families, I utilize the services of a bilingual employee in my building, or the district's Bilingual Community Liaison. All of these girls and their families speak Spanish, and my ability or lack thereof in speaking their language has not limited the care nor the services I'm able to provide to them. The only things that limit them are their lack of developing English skills so that they can get jobs or go to college, and the fact that since they are here illegally, they can't get all of the social services I can provide to US citizens who enroll in the program. Forcing me to learn Spanish won't help them in any of those regards.

Nowhere did I mention that the kids should not learn English. My reference was in relation to communicating with the parents.

Beagleboy

Canon EOS-30D

08/26/2005 10:55:36 PM · #18

I work for the federal civil service in Canada. A few years back, all middle level managers and above were told to learn French or they would face transfer or demotion. I am lucky enough that I grew up in a bilingual area where I was initated and learned both French and English at a very early age. For that, I am eternally grateful. My competency in English and French that I can apply to English-only, French-only or bilingual competitions. I owe my present job to the fact that I ma bilingual. Multilingualism should not be seen as a hindrance, but as a tool. I know it scrares the crap out of some people and can be a real pain, especially since learning new languages as an adult can be a real pain. I am currently struggling to keep my Spanish workable at a basic level and also plan to learn to use basic German to query passengers and be able to understand their answers. All in good time.

Best of luck with the transition Laurie. periods of transition are always hard, but perseverence often pays out in the end. Best of luck to you.

08/26/2005 10:55:37 PM · #19

Originally posted by laurielblack:

Originally posted by bear_music:
It's not that hard to learn a language well enough to communicate in it. And the benefits are manifold IMO.

R.

If it's not that hard, why then aren't we focusing on having the students and their parents learn English instead?

Aren't the students learning English? If not, what's preventing them from learning English? Are there ESL (English as a Second Language) programs available to them?

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

08/26/2005 10:58:35 PM · #20

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Aren't the students learning English? If not, what's preventing them from learning English? Are there ESL (English as a Second Language) programs available to them?

Yes the students are in ESOL classes, LEP programs, tutoring, you name it. Their parents however are not. I did say students AND parents in my post.

Canon EOS-20D

08/26/2005 10:58:46 PM · #21

Originally posted by bear_music:

It seems to me that in most countries of the world, the educated population routinely speaks more than one language fluently.

I work most summers with a staff that has members from all over the world. One of their favorite jokes to tell is:

What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language? American.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

08/26/2005 10:59:29 PM · #22

Originally posted by laurielblack:

Presumably we ARE teaching the kids English, and if we're not we damned well should be. The parents we have no control over, and there are a lot more of them than there are teachers. Either way, having teachers that can speak the language is a Good Thing, not a Bad Thing. I'm not sure I'd support making it a requirement like this for teachers, but I sure as heck would for administrators. And I think we'd all be better off if the school personell, in general, spoke the language.

Remember, I'm a San Diego native, and we have struggled for years there with the problems of bilingual education. I can even speak some Spanish myself, and I'm DEAF so it's really hard for me... I didn't learn it in school (French and Latin in school) but I picked it up over the years because I hung out with fishing boat people and they had Mexican crews. Most of them spoke at least some English, but it seemed like relations were better when I had some Spanish to show I was at least trying.

And that, I think, is my point... But I'm not a hardass on this. It does seem vaguely ridiculous to threaten an American teacher with getting fired if s/he refuses to learn a foreign language, I agree. It's just that I think it would be all for the better if they DID learn the language. Pay incentives maybe?

Robt.

08/26/2005 11:00:24 PM · #23

Originally posted by laurielblack:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Aren't the students learning English? If not, what's preventing them from learning English? Are there ESL (English as a Second Language) programs available to them?

Yes the students are in ESOL classes, LEP programs, tutoring, you name it. Their parents however are not. I did say students AND parents in my post.

Yes you did, but you inferred that neither was learning English. I stand corrected.

08/26/2005 11:07:51 PM · #24

The predominant language in the US is English. Last I checked, Texas was part of the US. If I moved to France, or Chile, or Japan, I'd learn whatever their predominant language is, and I would be sure my children were learning it as well. I would never expect their governments to cater to me and speak to me in my native language. I would never expect a school administrator or teacher or secretary to know my native language, and I would not expect them to lose their careers over it either.

I think it's really bad for education that we have to put one more burden on the plates of administrators (and eventually teachers). Principals are overworked, underpaid, and grossly underappreciated already. They spend many hours away from their own families trying to help kids, and now, putting this kind of requirement on them will take even more time away from their homes and their students.