DPC Mentorship - Breaking the Rules

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/08/2005 04:48:56 PM · #26

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by joezl:
Here is my submission.

More negative space in the frame could improve it even more possibly...

Thanks. That's easy enough to add. Where would you put it?

kirsty_mcn

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

Olympus 17.5-45mm f/3.5-5.6

08/11/2005 06:19:40 PM · #27

I've always done homework at the last minute, lol

Here's my examples: They're not great. I just applied autolevels etc cos I didn't have time to edit them properly before uploading

(fullsize)

(fullsize)

Although i dont think any of the compositions are that great, it did seem like the basic rule wasnt appropriate - mainly because, as everyone's already said, the interest is behind the subject, and composing for space in front just left lots of boring still water. I felt the waves behind helped the sense of movement more that negative space in front.

08/11/2005 10:31:27 PM · #28

Let's talk about a few items we may have discoverd about breaking this rule...

1. When your subject is moving out of the frame rather than into it, there needs to be some significant subject matter behind the moving object.

2. The moving subject seems to be better when it's not filling a majority of the frame.

What other observations about breaking this rule help justify doing it?

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

08/12/2005 08:22:15 AM · #29

Hi everyone,

Before this assignment I would not have cropped this image so tightly on the right hand side. The original does have more "room" on the right to balance the moving car light trails.

Here I've cropped it fairly tightly, to make the composition more "cramped" and to repeat the idea that if the car had not made the turn it would have crashed into the buildings. There wasn't room in real life for the car to move, so the crop reflects that. This is the best example I have of "breaking the rules."

I think I've applied it correctly, what say you?

--Laurie

Kavey

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

08/12/2005 09:11:04 AM · #30

John, thanks for letting me join this group.

Assignment #1: Motion in the Frame

I took this yesterday, specifically for the assignment.

My understanding of the rule that we are breaking is that one traditionally leaves room for movement to allow the viewer to see where the moving subject is moving to - this allows them to better understand the journey being made.

What I wanted to do with this image was the opposite of that - I wanted to create mystery for the viewer by not letting them see where the moving subject was heading.

My intent was to present a somewhat enigmatic location and then to place my "model" in such a way that he was leaving the small area of the path that the viewer could see.

I am hoping that this creates a curiousity and even a tension in the viewer about what is beyond the tiny part of the path that they can see. I hope too that the somewhat strange location, with the leading lines of the ceiling lights, adds to the enigma.

.

EDIT: After posting, I noticed your post above that says "When your subject is moving out of the frame rather than into it, there needs to be some significant subject matter behind the moving object. "

My image doesn't fit this statement. My thought processes were not so much about what else was in the frame but about what emotional response having space to move INTO creates in a viewer and therefore what emotional response might be evoked by not having space to move into?

Message edited by author 2005-08-12 09:17:03.

Dr.Confuser

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

08/12/2005 03:53:58 PM · #31

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Looking at the examples in the thread, it seems to work better when the background behind the moving subject is simple and uncluttered. Kavey's Walking Man, A1275's Light Trails, joezl's Boat all seem to have pretty simple and unclutered backgrounds. Not sure it modifies the rule but seems to be true in these examples.

charmayne

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

08/12/2005 08:37:01 PM · #32

I really had trouble finding a subject that i liked, this is the best example i could come up with. The subtle trail the duck left behind I think is part of the story in this pic leading to the subject duck continuing on his way. Not as dynamic as Digital Quixote's example which I think works very well as does Kavey's which shows a more emotive impact. I also like the light trails submitted by A1275 as the movement appears to be the subject itself. The boat by joezl is a stunning shot, but probably benefits by its more conventional composition. Does any of that make sense?

Message edited by author 2005-08-12 20:38:33.

carlos

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/13/2005 07:05:32 PM · #33

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

so you think mine would compositionally improve if the engines exhaust trailing was more obvious?

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

...
What other observations about breaking this rule help justify doing it?

To me having the subject leaving the frame gives a "to be continued" idea so to say, the viewer has the feeling something's going to happen out of his or her sight when the subject definitively leaves out. See Kavey's as an example: Where's the man going to? Why is he walking out right instead of through the tunnel towards the camera? will he meet someone else?...

As a viewer, I make myself those questions, I can let my imagination run wild about what's going to happen as is not as obvious as if you see where the subject is heading to when the rule is followed. It's you, the viewer, who builds the history course.

As a photographer, can use this technique to convey those feelings to your audience.

Do you agree? anyone?

Message edited by author 2005-08-14 05:05:46.

08/14/2005 01:43:41 PM · #34

Creating a 'tension' or conflict in the photo can be nice, as in Kavey's example. The photo creates a bit of mystery for the viewer. As we will see in upcoming lessons, this is a primary reason that rules are broken. Hopefully we will see a lot more examples of this soon.

08/15/2005 10:16:03 PM · #35

Anyone else have any comments or discussion on this particular rule break or should we move on?

Balko

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/15/2005 10:20:22 PM · #36

Although my example was a poor one, I do understand this rule and the ways of breaking it. So, I am ready for the next one :)

joezl

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/15/2005 10:45:19 PM · #37

Doing our own examples is very instructive. It might also help if supplemented by examples of how some of the top photographers do it and how it works in those circumstances. If anyone has any links to relevant web sites that show this rule being broken, I'd be very interested. I've looked but haven;t found anything yet.

08/15/2005 10:50:45 PM · #38

I'll keep that in mind when i post the next lesson.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

08/17/2005 06:50:06 AM · #39

This was a good lesson - can't wait for the next one!

08/21/2005 12:44:31 PM · #40

Assignment #2: Horizons

There are several rules about horizons in photographs. There are two general rules to start with. 1) The '10 degree rule' states that horizons tilted less than 10 degrees from horizontal are mistakes. There is no real reason to break this rule. 2) Horizons should not split the frame in the center.

The second rule is the one we will concentrate on in this lesson.

Your assignment:

Create a photograph where the horizion splits the frame in the center. Explain why doing so has created something extra in your image.

Kavey

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

08/26/2005 12:02:46 PM · #41

Not ignoring this assignment but haven't done any photography for a few days (since the GTG on the 20th) and am still mulling over ideas (all of which seem to be impossible in my immediate vicinity so am trying to think of some that work/ I like and can do near my home).

liv4him330

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

08/26/2005 04:53:00 PM · #42

I know this lesson has been up for awhile but when would you like this by.

09/03/2005 11:24:50 PM · #43

This mentorship is closed due to lack of interest :)

Kavey