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06/15/2005 01:39:51 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
What if darkness simply means a lack of light to me? |
Well then, I guess you better do a pretty darn good job of expressing that. |
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06/15/2005 01:42:54 PM · #77 |
i dont understand how how a photo doesnt meet the darkness challenge. description says "what does darkness mean to U" who is to say that darkness doesnt mean that to u(what the photo portrays). for voting this challenge i think u need to vote the photos merits itself, not the meaning or the "message" u get from it( and certainly not the title either). and this is how i am voting this challenge. I did not enter this challenge but im sure if i had entered my vision it would have been slammed for not meeting someone elses meaning of darkness.
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06/15/2005 01:44:12 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by merls:
I agree with your interpretation of the challenge and the lack of meeting it by most entries. |
ahhh come on folks, to some people darkness means just that - dark. When it's a personal interpretation like this challenge (unlike say "photograph something made of metal") you can't whine about crap not meeting the challenge. You CAN however whine about crap being crap.
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06/15/2005 01:45:08 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
What if darkness simply means a lack of light to me? |
wait... I am thinking up a response.......
If that is the case... then give me that ... dont give me a shot of a cherry pie in 1/4 lighting and tell me that is lack of light... I ain't buying it...
Put a burnt out lightbulb in the background then I am there. I can see where you are going. |
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06/15/2005 01:45:08 PM · #80 |
| It doesn't have meet my definition, but I sure as heck should be able to understand your definition. If not, either I am naive and shallow or you didn't do a good job portraying your view. I am open to either conclusion. |
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06/15/2005 01:46:30 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
If a pic blatantly doesn't meet the challenge (a pear in an apple challenge to borrow someones metaphor) then it's not even considered and gets a 1, I don't care HOW beautiful or artistically it's done. |
That's your right, but it's not quite what the voting guidelines call for. The challenge topic gets the highest consideration (with concept, lighting, focus, etc. secondary), but if any photo that doesn't meet your interpretation of the topic gets a 1, then that consideration is 100%. I couldn't honestly look at a 90 pixel wide, grainy, blurry, poorly white-balanced image of an apple and put that ahead of a stunning pear picture on a good to bad scale, but neither will I score any half-decent apple picture below the pear. That, to me, is giving the highest consideration (but not ALL of it) to the challenge topic. |
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06/15/2005 01:47:53 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
no the challenge said "What does darkness mean to you? Show us with an image."
It DID NOT SAY "Create an image where darkness is the lighting effect"
They are not the same thing !!!
That being said... if someone tried to capture the thing "darkness" that too would be cool...
But trying to simply shoehorn a lighting effect and saying that it meets the challenge just doesn't do it for me. |
In one sentence you state, âif someone tried to capture the thing "darkness" that too would be cool...â Then in your very next sentence you state that a photo that shows darkness with a lighting effect doesnât meet the challenge. Your argument only makes sense if you assume that âdarknessâ cannot be depicted with a lighting effect. IOW, you seem to be assuming that the challenge topic was strictly limited to depictions of the dark side of human nature. Or, am I missing your point entirely?
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06/15/2005 01:52:00 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
Originally posted by nomad469:
no the challenge said "What does darkness mean to you? Show us with an image."
It DID NOT SAY "Create an image where darkness is the lighting effect"
They are not the same thing !!!
That being said... if someone tried to capture the thing "darkness" that too would be cool...
But trying to simply shoehorn a lighting effect and saying that it meets the challenge just doesn't do it for me. |
In one sentence you state, âif someone tried to capture the thing "darkness" that too would be cool...â Then in your very next sentence you state that a photo that shows darkness with a lighting effect doesnât meet the challenge. Your argument only makes sense if you assume that âdarknessâ cannot be depicted with a lighting effect. IOW, you seem to be assuming that the challenge topic was strictly limited to depictions of the dark side of human nature. Or, am I missing your point entirely? |
yeah... I did not express that cleanly...
Please see the response to scalvert
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06/15/2005 01:55:35 PM · #84 |
| who in this site can say that when they stand befor a beautiful sunset they think..... THIS MEANS DARKNESS I know i say wow that is beautiful or awsome but dont ever remember thinking this means darkness to me I may think gee its gonna be dark soon |
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06/15/2005 01:57:11 PM · #85 |
| you can show the lack of light that would meet the challenge but would not be a good pic |
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06/15/2005 01:57:27 PM · #86 |
You make a valid point regarding this challenge. Trying to determine what meets the challenge or not is very subjective in this case because the description says "what does darkness mean to you". In that context the images submitted can be on a very personal level that as a viewer we have no idea.
I was preaching from my soapbox earlier about voting on images that don't meet the challenge vs ones that do. Some challenges lend themselves to making that distinction much easier than this one does.
Benefit of the doubt here should go to the submitter (challenge entry).
Originally posted by smilebig4me1x:
i dont understand how how a photo doesnt meet the darkness challenge. description says "what does darkness mean to U" who is to say that darkness doesnt mean that to u(what the photo portrays). |
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06/15/2005 02:06:29 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
You make a valid point regarding this challenge. Trying to determine what meets the challenge or not is very subjective in this case because the description says "what does darkness mean to you". In that context the images submitted can be on a very personal level that as a viewer we have no idea.
I was preaching from my soapbox earlier about voting on images that don't meet the challenge vs ones that do. Some challenges lend themselves to making that distinction much easier than this one does.
Benefit of the doubt here should go to the submitter (challenge entry).
Originally posted by smilebig4me1x:
i dont understand how how a photo doesnt meet the darkness challenge. description says "what does darkness mean to U" who is to say that darkness doesnt mean that to u(what the photo portrays). |
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To that point I have to agree with you also... as my wife and I were discussing this am...
If a person has a dark association with a cup of coffee for whatever reason to that person... it would meet the challenge... BUT that is something that in some way that has to be conveyed to me (the viewer)
Look at it as an Art Director would ... You have to give me samething to latch on to... either in the image or even in the title...so I know where your artistic license is taking me...
If you dont give me the latch... I can't read the artist's mind. and I will say.... that it doesn't raise to the level of meeting the challenge.
(BTW I say me as the generic viewer)
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06/15/2005 02:07:50 PM · #88 |
Well that is the danger to a broad topic... it becomes a problem taking a picture that clearly infers the topic, and it becomes a problem for the voter to see the inference. Apparently this topic is even harder because some people don't believe darkness == lack of light is a valid take on the topic...
Clearly something like "Rubber Ducky with 3 light sources and 5 green grapes" is a bit easier to vote on ;)
Maybe future topics should be "ACME Rubber Duck Part#: P215332, on white background, with center composition" just so its easy for both the photographers and voters.
Message edited by author 2005-06-15 14:08:58. |
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06/15/2005 02:11:05 PM · #89 |
i agree, like those pretty little things that pop up in every challenge??? i dont want to mention what but i think ya know what i mean.
Originally posted by holdingtime:
who in this site can say that when they stand befor a beautiful sunset they think..... THIS MEANS DARKNESS I know i say wow that is beautiful or awsome but dont ever remember thinking this means darkness to me I may think gee its gonna be dark soon |
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06/15/2005 02:12:07 PM · #90 |
| FWIW, I don't in any way dispute the need for the photographer to meet the challenge and communicate with the viewer. What I take issue with is the idea that ANY photo that's doesn't meet the challenge should automatically get the worst possible score. Within those images that have no connection to the challenge topic, there are also good and bad. The voting scale simply doesn't go from "Doesn't meet the challenge" to "Meets the challenge." Like Muckpond, I score in two groups- those that (IMO) don't meet the challenge will not score above 5, while those that do meet the challenge will not score below 3. That gives the highest consideration to the topic, but still alllows me to consider other factors. |
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06/15/2005 02:13:47 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by yeoua:
Well that is the danger to a broad topic... it becomes a problem taking a picture that clearly infers the topic, and it becomes a problem for the voter to see the inference. Apparently this topic is even harder because some people don't believe darkness == lack of light is a valid take on the topic...
Clearly something like "Rubber Ducky with 3 light sources and 5 green grapes" is a bit easier to vote on ;)
Maybe future topics should be "ACME Rubber Duck Part#: P215332, on white background, with center composition" just so its easy for both the photographers and voters. |
Thats just it ...Yeoua... I DO Believe darkness == lack of light... show me that ...
Dont show me the lighting technique on a cherry pie and tell me that is what darkness means to you... there is a difference. |
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06/15/2005 02:15:50 PM · #92 |
to bad I didn't enter- darkness has been a general theme in comments about my work
e.g.; "too dark" or "that sucks, it too dark." |
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06/15/2005 02:15:56 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
FWIW, I don't in any way dispute the need for the photographer to meet the challenge and communicate with the viewer. What I take issue with is the idea that ANY photo that's doesn't meet the challenge should automatically get the worst possible score. Within those images that have no connection to the challenge topic, there are also good and bad. The voting scale simply doesn't go from "Doesn't meet the challenge" to "Meets the challenge." Like Muckpond, I score in two groups- those that (IMO) don't meet the challenge will not score above 5, while those that do meet the challenge will not score below 3. That gives the highest consideration to the topic, but still alllows me to consider other factors. |
Heck... I think that is a very fair way to do it...IF I can take that blue F150 to my client and get 1/2 of my money... even though I did not meet the requirement for a red mack truck.
Message edited by author 2005-06-15 14:17:21. |
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06/15/2005 02:16:55 PM · #94 |
| Mmmmm... dark cherries! ;-) |
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06/15/2005 02:18:28 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Mmmmm... dark cherries! ;-) |
With or without the chocolate |
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06/15/2005 02:19:38 PM · #96 |
nomad - i fundermentally agree with you. Darkness to me is also an emotive representation.
But (please people dont lynch me for saying this) not everyone thinks at that depth. To some people, darkness is when you turn off the lights.
To a lot of people who played this week, it is apparent that darkness to them is when the sun goes down.
To me that is justified.
Photos of a flashlight that has been turned on and swung around, in my view, is not justified. That isnt a photo of darkness, or even an interuptation of darness, it is a photo of the light effect. Photos like that will not merrit higher than a 5 from me, because that is my benchmark for "as fantastic as i might be, i just dont meet the challenge".
Evidently photos of a person holding up thier torch to thier chin to me, does meet the challenge, because it has more depth than a flashlight being swung around. It has the "are you afraid of the dark" concept.
Yeh okay, what i am saying is to get above a 5 from me, you will have to portray darkness, not use darkness for the sake of portraying light.
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06/15/2005 02:32:51 PM · #97 |
Perhaps there should be two voting scales: 1 for picture quality and 1 for meets the challenge and your final score is a combination of the two. OR on the current single scale perhaps the words good and bad should be replaced with meets the challenge/does not meet the challenge.
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06/15/2005 02:35:53 PM · #98 |
To me, this is not a very descriptive challenge, and is open to all kinds of interpretations especially the fact that it says "what does it mean to you?" Your comparison with the "red Mack truck" is very descriptive, there's no room for interpretation there. A "red Mack truck" is VERY item specific, while "darkness" and "what it means to you" is not.
I do agree about your view as if challenges are being presented by a client and your job is to give them what they want. This is true to most challenges. However, if a client is paying you to photograph something they are probably going to have very specific details about they want, not a vague definition and ask you "what does it mean to you?" as in this challenge.
-just my 2 bits |
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06/15/2005 02:40:52 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
To me, this is not a very descriptive challenge, and is open to all kinds of interpretations especially the fact that it says "what does it mean to you?" Your comparison with the "red Mack truck" is very descriptive, there's no room for interpretation there. A "red Mack truck" is VERY item specific, while "darkness" and "what it means to you" is not.
I do agree about your view as if challenges are being presented by a client and your job is to give them what they want. This is true to most challenges. However, if a client is paying you to photograph something they are probably going to have very specific details about they want, not a vague definition and ask you "what does it mean to you?" as in this challenge.
-just my 2 bits |
not always ... I have had a request for a "scary night picture"
I shot about 50 images ... all of them scary only 1 was scary enough.
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06/15/2005 02:58:28 PM · #100 |
on a side note - i hope all the people that took photos of homeless individuals 1 - asked permission first (if i fell into such destitude that i had no place to go, i sure wouldn't want my face plastered over the internet so everyone knew my misfortune) and 2 - brought them some lunch.
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